Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

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Shadow 14
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Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Shadow 14 »

So, since this is our first real MPC in Europe, I would like to get the seeding right, and you can all chime in.

I'll create a leaderboard/ranking based on the Fantasy Euro threads that were started by Paul (I believe) and continued by Krypto.
These rankings and the last EC results have been posted in the second thread. Last ECs take most weight, but any "common knownledge" or any good reasons you guys can add, will also influence the rankings (and ultimately the MPC seedings).

I added 10 points and 5 points to the list. For 5 points I have taken the last 8 places from the EC, plus any new players.
Bastian has won 5 ECs now, so I guess it's save to add him to the top. I made several other changes and tried to combine the 2 lists.

Guys, it's hard to do this and "rank" people (feels like judging), so please excuse any "bad rankings" or anything like this.
The following list should serve as a BASIS and you can all help to adjust it, and make it better.

green = more or less confirmed (please post aby objections here)


EUROPEAN RANKING FOR FANTASY AND SEEDING:

50
Bastian Winkelhaus
Emil Wallin

45
Angelo Consoli
Jimmy Faellens
Nico Kreidl
Ziemowit (Krypto) Skwara

40
Casper Jorgensen
Chris Menzel
David (DDM) Destefanis

35
Cedric Venderhaegen
Jerome Nitschke
Jonas Hagen Norregaard
Jon Benkert Holtet
Julian Fuss
Kevin Japp

30
John Moorley
Paul McPherson
Patrik Csapi
Tobias (TB) Bukkehave
Tony DaCosta

25
Jordi (Brainschrat) P.
Koen Meijssen
Marc Nickels
Marvin Tegeler
Piotr Jarnot
Stephan de Vos
Tamas Papp
Wojciech (Hipo) Wisniewski

20
Floris deVries
Moritz Krage
Nico Oster

15
Gosse Zeilstra
Grady Hutchins
Jonas Jakubowski
Nelson Cazon
Quirin Fürgut
Ralf Wachowiak
Rasmus Juul
Stefan Boersma

10
David Luhaaer
Eric Spijksma
Jonas Sonne Jacobsen
Julien-Andres Smolarek
Kent Larsen
Łukasz Saczek
Martin Den Boef
Massimiliano Collussi
Piotr Mr. Bird
Ulli Reuter

5
Bertrand Momal
Christopher
Darren Marlins
Lars Beard & Googles
Martin Sommer
Mike Klarenbeek
Mike Rosenberger
Pete The Welsh
Robert Smolarek
Stephan Allhoff


Chris (Euro Emperor) Menzel
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Shadow 14 »

This is the Fantasy Europeans thread from Krypto from this year's EC:
kryptofis wrote:FANTASY EUROPEANS

45
Emil

40
Jimmy
Krypto
Angelo

35
Casper
DDM
Bastian

30
Menzel
Hipo
TB
Kevin
Cedric
Jerome Nitschke
Mike Kessling

25
Ptaku
Martin the Dutch
Koen
Paul mcpherson
Tamas
Marc
Marvin tegeler
Tony DaCosta
Piotr Jarnot

20
Floris
Kent
Lars
Rasmus
Łukasz Saczek
Goose
Jonas Jakubowski
Brainschrat
Nico Oster
Quirin Fürgut
Bertrand Momal

15
Ulli Reuter,
Stefan Boersma
Stephan de Vos
Nelson
Moritz
Massimiliano
John
Pete
Eric
Patrick Csapi
Smolarek
Darren M.
Mike Klarenbeek
These were the final results from the EC:
Shadow 14 wrote:Europeans 2017 Day 2 Results
1. Jimmy Victory Points: 14 Record: 7-1 SoS: 88
2. Krypto Victory Points: 12 Record: 6-2 SoS: 82
3. Angelo Victory Points: 12 Record: 6-2 SoS: 76 (Tiebreak SOS: 64)
4. Jonas Hagen Victory Points: 12 Record: 6-2 SoS: 76 (Tiebreak SOS: 38)
5. Bastian Victory Points: 12 Record: 6-2 SoS: 76 (Tiebreak SOS: 36)
6. Chris Menzel Victory Points: 12 Record: 6-2 SoS: 70
7. Casper Victory Points: 12 Record: 6-2 SoS: 66 (Tiebreak SOS: 56)
8. DDM Victory Points: 12 Record: 6-2 SoS: 66 (Tiebreak SOS: 54)
9. Patrik the Hun Victory Points: 10 Record: 5-3 SoS: 86
10. Floris Victory Points: 10 Record: 5-3 SoS: 80
11. Emil Victory Points: 10 Record: 5-3 SoS: 76 (Tiebreak SOS: 72)
12. John Moorley Victory Points: 10 Record: 5-3 SoS: 76 (Tiebreak SOS: 70)
13. Stephan de Vos Victory Points: 10 Record: 5-3 SoS: 71
14. Nelson Victory Points: 10 Record: 5-3 SoS: 68
15. King Jon Victory Points: 10 Record: 5-3 SoS: 66
16. Piotr Dash_R Victory Points: 10 Record: 5-3 SoS: 60
17. Koen Victory Points: 8 Record: 4-4 SoS: 84
18. Mike Kessling Victory Points: 8 Record: 4-4 SoS: 74
19. Quirin Victory Points: 8 Record: 4-4 SoS: 70
20. Jordi Victory Points: 8 Record: 4-4 SoS: 68
21. Paul Victory Points: 8 Record: 4-4 SoS: 64
22. Marvin Victory Points: 8 Record: 4-4 SoS: 62 (Tiebreak SOS: 40)
23. David Luhaaer Victory Points: 8 Record: 4-4 SoS: 62 (Tiebreak SOS: 38)
24. Ralf Victory Points: 8 Record: 4-4 SoS: 59
25. Jerome Victory Points: 8 Record: 4-4 SoS: 58 (Tiebreak SOS: 50)
26. Jonas Jaku Victory Points: 8 Record: 4-4 SoS: 58 (Tiebreak SOS: 48)
27. Kevin Jaap Victory Points: 8 Record: 4-4 SoS: 56
28. Moritz Victory Points: 8 Record: 4-4 SoS: 49
29. Ulli Victory Points: 8 Record: 4-4 SoS: 48
30. Julien Andres Victory Points: 6 Record: 3-5 SoS: 74
31. Gosse Victory Points: 6 Record: 3-5 SoS: 72
32. Martin De Boef Victory Points: 6 Record: 3-5 SoS: 66
33. Bertrand Victory Points: 6 Record: 3-5 SoS: 60 (Tiebreak SOS: 52)
34. Eric Victory Points: 6 Record: 3-5 SoS: 60 (Tiebreak SOS: 50)
35. Piotr Mr Bird Victory Points: 6 Record: 3-5 SoS: 56
36. Pete the Welsh Victory Points: 4 Record: 2-6 SoS: 60
37. Max Victory Points: 4 Record: 2-6 SoS: 58
38. Darren Victory Points: 4 Record: 2-6 SoS: 52
39. Stefan Boersma Victory Points: 4 Record: 2-6 SoS: 50
40. Mike Rosenberger Victory Points: 4 Record: 2-6 SoS: 46
41. Christopher Victory Points: 4 Record: 2-2 SoS: 31 DROPPED
42. Mike the Dutch Victory Points: 2 Record: 1-7 SoS: 52
43. Martin Sommer Victory Points: 2 Record: 1-4 SoS: 38 DROPPED

Europeans 2017 Day 3 Results
1. Bastian
2. Krypto
3. Jimmy
4. Angelo
5. Jonas Hagen
6. Chris Menzel
7. Casper
8. DDM

Consolation Tournament Results
1. Stephan deVos 8 +57
2. Paul McPherson 6 +53
3. King Jon 6 +50
4. Patrik the Hun 6 +36
5. Gosse 6 +31
6. Kevin 6 +22
7. Jordi 6 +21
8. Nelson 6 +20
9. Quirin 5 +28
10. Koen 4 +40
11. John Moorley 4 +25
12. Eric 4 +15
13. Jonas Jaku 4 -32
14. Julien-Andres 4 -44
15. Mike Kessling 3 -19
16. Pete the Welsh 2 -16
17. Ulli 2 -3
18. Martin de Boef 2 -33
19. Floris 2 -40
20. Mike the Dutch 0 -104

Cube Tournament Results
1. Stefan Boersma LS 6 +12
2. Chris Menzel DS 4 +37
3. Enno DS 4 +19
4. Koen LS 4 +8
5. Eric LS 4 +5
6. Gosse LS 4 -17
7. Jordi DS 2 +12
8. Kevin DS 2 +5
9. Stephan DeVos LS 2 -2
10. John Moorley DS 2 -3
11. Pete the Welsh DS 0 -32
12. Mike the Dutch LS 0 -33


Team Tournament Results
1. M.O.K.U.M. (Koen (DS)/Stephan De Vos (LS) 10+79
2. Boba Fett Tastes Like Your Mother’s Kisses (Kevin /King Jon) 10 +28
3. Ministry of Defense (Tamas/Patrick) 8 +28
4. Polarized Negative Power Couple (Floris/Martin) 8 +5
5. Weisswurst (Quirin/Ulli) 6 +47
6. Beats By Dr. E. (Jordi/Christopher 4 -5
7. Piiiiiigs In Space (Stefan Boersma/Eric) 4 -14
8. The Kitchen Is Closed (Sven Stich/Jonas Juku) 4 -27
9. Beards ‘R’ Us (Mike the Dutch/Gosse) 4 -51
10. Team 15 Points (John Moorley/Pete the Welch) 2 -52
Chris (Euro Emperor) Menzel
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Paul McPherson »

I've put together the following information about the past two-years tournaments to aid the debate. I'll list the top 2, 4 or 8 players depending on the information that I could find and the number of players.

Majors

2017 European Championship - 43 players

1. Bastian Winkelhaus
2. Ziemowit Skwara
3. Jimmy Faelens
4. Angelo Consoli
5. Jonas Hagen
6. Chris Menzel
7. Casper Jorgensen
8. David Destefanis

2016 European Championship - 37 players

1. Emil Wallin
2. Ziemowit Skwara
3. Jimmy Faelens
4. Tom Kelly
5. David Destafinis
6. Jon Holtet
7. Stephen Skelton
8. Tom Haid

Regionals

2017 Ralltiir Regional - 12 players

1. Kevin Japp
2. Moritz Krage
3. Tamas Papp
4. Patrik Csapi

2017 Naboo Regional - 15 players

1. Angelo Consoli
2. Cedrik Vanderhaegen
3. Marc Nickels
4. Paul McPherson

2017 Toola Regional - 7 players

1. Emil Walin
=2. Angelo Consoli
=3. Casper Jorgensen

2017 Ryloth Regional - 19 players

1. Emil Walin
2. Jerome Nitschke
3. Nico Oster
4. Koen Meijssen

2016 Naboo Regional - 11 players

1. John Moorley
2. Darren Pilbeam
3. Dan Price
4. Marc Nickels

2016 Toola Regional - 12 players

=1. Jimmy Faelens
=1. Jonas Norregard
3. Emil Walin

2016 Ryloth Regional - 10 players

1. Jimmy Faelens
2. Angelo Consoli
3. Cedrik Vanderhaegen
4. Jerome Nitschke

Nationals

2017 Hungarian Nationals - 10 players

1. Patrik Csapi
2. Dugo
3. David Destafanis
4. Peter

2017 Welsh Nationals - 5 players

1. Paul McPherson
2. Marc Nickels

2017 Netherlands Nationals - 10 players

1. Koen Meijssen
2. Marvin Tegeler
3. Angelo Consoli
4. Jordi

2016 Netherlands Nationals - 5 players

1. Cedrik Vanderhaegen
2. Gosse Zeilstra

2016 Hungarian Nationals - 10 players

1. Chris Menzel
2. David Destafanis
3. Tusi
4. Szegedi

2016 Welsh Nationals - 11 players

1. Emil Walin
2. Kevin Japp
3. Marc Nickels
4. Chris Menzel

2016 Danish Nationals - 7 players

1. Angelo Consoli
2. Jonas Hagen

Other

2017 European Championship Consolation Tournament - 26 players

1. Stephan deVos
2. Paul McPherson
3. Jion Holtet
4. Patrik Csapi

2016 European Championship Consolation Tournament - 23 players

1. Kevin Japp
2. Jordi Brainschrat
3. Tobias Bukkehave
4. Marc Nickels

I'm still looking for additional details on some of these events and have messaged a couple of TDs to that end. I'll keep this post updated as and when I gather additional information.
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Paul McPherson »

This is what I would go for:

EUROPEAN RANKING FOR FANTASY AND SEEDING:

50
Emil Wallin

45
Bastian Winkelhaus
Angelo Consoli
Jimmy Faelens
Ziemowit (Krypto) Skwara

40
Nico Kreidl
Casper Jorgensen
David (DDM) Destefanis
Chris Menzel

35
Cedric Venderhaegen
Kevin Japp
Jerome Nitschke

30
Patrik Csapi
Tobias (TB) Bukkehave
Paul McPherson
Jonas Hagen
Jon Holtet

25
Marc Nickels
Jordi Brainschrat
Koen Meijssen
Hipo
Tony DaCosta
Stephan de Vos
John Moorley
Marvin Tegeler
Piotr Jarnot
Tamas Papp

20
Moritz Krage
Nico Oster
Gosse Zeilstra
Floris deVries

15
Jonas Jakubowski
Nelson Cazon
Quirin Fürgut
Rasmus Juul

10
David Luhaaer
Kent Larsen
Łukasz Saczek
Ralf Wachowiak
Stefan Boersma
Ulli Reuter
Piotr Mr. Bird
Eric Spijksma
Julien-Andres Smolarek
Martin Den Boef

5
Bertrand Momal
Massimiliano Collussi
Robert Smolarek
Christopher
Darren Marlins
Lars Beard & Googles
Martin Sommer
Mike Klarenbeek
Mike Rosenberger
Pete The Welsh
Stephan Allhoff
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World Championship 26th Place - 2019
European Championship 4th Place - 2013
Naboo Regional Winner - 2015, 2018 & 2019
Ralltiir Regional Runner-up - 2019
English National Winner - 2014
Welsh National Winner - 2017 & 2018
German National Runner-up - 2018

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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Paul McPherson »

I would actually love for us to introduce some form of ratings system in Europe that takes into account all tournaments/players.
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Calaglin »

I second this motion
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Hutch »

So I’m going for 0 points, right behind someone’s beard and day old beer, yeah? This is because I’m American-African isn’t it? That’s ok. I’m going break through that glass ceiling! And if I don’t...I’ll just have me some of that day old beer!!!!
3rd place 2016 Virginia States; 3rd place 2017 Virginia States; Top 8 Euro MPC 2018; 5th place 2018 German Nationals; 5th Place 2018 Kashyyyk Regionals; 3rd place 2018 Massachusetts States; 2019 Massachusetts League Champion; 3rd place 2019 Nal Hutta Regionals
Honorary member of Team Wales & Pretty much the best player in East Africa.
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Shadow 14 »

Haha, no you are worth a few points, Grady.
Thanks for the message, too.
From your previous and recent MPCs I would put you at 15 points for this.
Chris (Euro Emperor) Menzel
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Shadow 14 »

Paul McPherson wrote:I would actually love for us to introduce some form of ratings system in Europe that takes into account all tournaments/players.
I am all for this, and would be happy if you could help me with that, Paul.

If we want to use it for Fantasy Ratings and Seedings, then there's one thing I would like to include in that, though...
"No ratings drop for not playing!"

If we want to look for the player of the year, etc. then any-one who's not playing shouldn't get any points. That's for sure.

If we are looking at life time rankings (and that's what I'm aiming for above), then we should not lower the rankings, if some-one is not playing.
The reasons are simple. From my experience the high ranking players don't get worse when they don't play for awhile. If Bastian takes a 10 year break, he will still be able to win the EC (as he just did). The same goes for other guys that would get a decent ranking like Kristian Lund, Morten Iversen, Ninja, Nico Kreidl, etc. For the life time ranking it shouldn't matter if they don't play. They still shouldn't drop.

If a guy like me with a decent life time and current ranking has a real bad season, then that should be reflected, and I should be dropped. Has happened enough times, and will likely happen again. :( But if a guy like Kristian Lund doesn't show up for a few years, because he moved to the States, then I don't think he'll return any weaker. And if he does, it will be reflected in the next ranking.
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Shadow 14 »

That said, I'm good with bumping the list up to 50 being the highest points.

Let's compare your and my list and try to find a compromise there.
I'll do it step by step. Here are the first 3:

EUROPEAN RANKING FOR FANTASY AND SEEDING:

50
Bastian Winkelhaus
Emil Wallin

45
Angelo Consoli
Jimmy Faellens
Nico Kreidl
Ziemowit (Krypto) Skwara

40
Casper Jorgensen
Chris Menzel
David (DDM) Destefanis

I really, really think Bastian should be in the highest category. He just returned from a 10 year hiatus and won his 5th (!) Europeans. That might be the most wins of a single person done on a specific major event. Not sure? He IS "monster level" like Emil and Chu.

Let's meet in the middle with Nico Kreidl (I said highest group and you said third). He has won 3 Europeans in a row, and made top 4 at Euro Worlds.

I can agree on being in the third group right now. ;) All three of us were Euro Champions, and made top 8 several times. I've recently kicked DDMs butt a couple of times, so that even he would probably agree. ;) (With a loud mouth like that I will probably drop down faster than I can look).

So, how do we proceed? If Paul agrees and nobody objects we move on? Feel free to chime in, guys!
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Paul McPherson »

Shadow 14 wrote:
Paul McPherson wrote:I would actually love for us to introduce some form of ratings system in Europe that takes into account all tournaments/players.
I am all for this, and would be happy if you could help me with that, Paul.

If we want to use it for Fantasy Ratings and Seedings, then there's one thing I would like to include in that, though...
"No ratings drop for not playing!"

If we want to look for the player of the year, etc. then any-one who's not playing shouldn't get any points. That's for sure.

If we are looking at life time rankings (and that's what I'm aiming for above), then we should not lower the rankings, if some-one is not playing.
The reasons are simple. From my experience the high ranking players don't get worse when they don't play for awhile. If Bastian takes a 10 year break, he will still be able to win the EC (as he just did). The same goes for other guys that would get a decent ranking like Kristian Lund, Morten Iversen, Ninja, Nico Kreidl, etc. For the life time ranking it shouldn't matter if they don't play. They still shouldn't drop.

If a guy like me with a decent life time and current ranking has a real bad season, then that should be reflected, and I should be dropped. Has happened enough times, and will likely happen again. :( But if a guy like Kristian Lund doesn't show up for a few years, because he moved to the States, then I don't think he'll return any weaker. And if he does, it will be reflected in the next ranking.
I think that this is fine for things like rankings for MPCs and fantasy events but I would want the actual rankings to be a reflection of what a player has achieved more recently. The idea that I have in my head would consider all of the results for the past three years with more points being awarded for the most recent year. Points would be awarded based on your final position, the number of players and the level of the event. The bottom line is that if you won the most recent EC then you would have a lot of points :-D

If this is something that players are interested in hearing more about then I'll happily type up a system. The key feature would be that points are awarded to every player at every tournament - this is what is currently missing from the POY system in my opinion.
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Paul McPherson »

Shadow 14 wrote:That said, I'm good with bumping the list up to 50 being the highest points.

Let's compare your and my list and try to find a compromise there.
I'll do it step by step. Here are the first 3:

EUROPEAN RANKING FOR FANTASY AND SEEDING:

50
Bastian Winkelhaus
Emil Wallin

45
Angelo Consoli
Jimmy Faellens
Nico Kreidl
Ziemowit (Krypto) Skwara

40
Casper Jorgensen
Chris Menzel
David (DDM) Destefanis

I really, really think Bastian should be in the highest category. He just returned from a 10 year hiatus and won his 5th (!) Europeans. That might be the most wins of a single person done on a specific major event. Not sure? He IS "monster level" like Emil and Chu.

Let's meet in the middle with Nico Kreidl (I said highest group and you said third). He has won 3 Europeans in a row, and made top 4 at Euro Worlds.

I can agree on being in the third group right now. ;) All three of us were Euro Champions, and made top 8 several times. I've recently kicked DDMs butt a couple of times, so that even he would probably agree. ;) (With a loud mouth like that I will probably drop down faster than I can look).

So, how do we proceed? If Paul agrees and nobody objects we move on? Feel free to chime in, guys!
If we are going for lifetime achievements then I'd probably bump Angelo up one bracket and Jimmy down one bracket. I'm a little rusty on my EC history prior to 2010 but a case could possibly be made for David being moved up a bracket also.
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Shadow 14 »

Well, I guess what I'm looking for are life time archievements
with emphasis on "what happened in the last 2-3 years"
but without negative influence for not playing.

If it were only life time, I'd agree, but since we are not in agreement I need to hear some other votes on this.

Emil, DDM, Krypto, Angelo... any-one?
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Paul McPherson »

Shadow 14 wrote:Well, I guess what I'm looking for are life time archievements
with emphasis on "what happened in the last 2-3 years"
but without negative influence for not playing.

If it were only life time, I'd agree, but since we are not in agreement I need to hear some other votes on this.

Emil, DDM, Krypto, Angelo... any-one?
If it is lifetime achievement then the list goes:

1. Emil
2. Bastian
3. Angelo
4. Gary Carmen
5. Philipp Jacobs
6. Nico
7-15. All other 1x EC winners in some order

with the distance between 6 and 7 being pretty huge.

I do have an issue with were to stand on Decipher Era World Champions compared to PC Era World Champions. On the one hand, there are undoubtedly less players now then there were 20 years ago. On the other hand, how well would European players faired at Worlds if all expenses were still covered? This is not meant as a slight towards anyone, but I qualified for Worlds the year after Decipher stopped covering the expenses (I believe that this was the year after Angelo won it) and there was no way that I could afford to go to the USA to play cards. I'd love to know how well the likes of Ziemowit and Jimmy (and myself! :-D ) would have faired if we could have attended Worlds every year. In the 7 years that Decipher covered all expenses, 5 of the World Champions (71%) were from outside the United States (with 3 of them being from Germany). Since then, 100% of the World Champions (13/13) have been from the United States when it has been held in the USA.

In my opinion, if we want lifetime achievements then we should just go with the above list. Personally I'd like to introduce a system that ranks the current players based on their achievements. We could easily factor in a boost for winning Worlds and the EC in the past but my list would probably have someone like Ziemowit (1x winner and 2x runner-up at the EC in the past 3 years) on a par (and perhaps just above) Angelo, for example.

Chime in everyone else, please. :-D
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European Championship 4th Place - 2013
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Shadow 14
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Shadow 14 »

What you're saying here pretty much reflects what I wrote imo (except for Jimmy maybe).
EUROPEAN RANKING FOR FANTASY AND SEEDING:

50
Bastian Winkelhaus
Emil Wallin

45
Angelo Consoli
Jimmy Faellens
Nico Kreidl
Ziemowit (Krypto) Skwara

40
Casper Jorgensen
Chris Menzel
David (DDM) Destefanis


I listed the players alphabetically, and did not include any players that are not around anymore (Gary Carmen and Philip Jacobs).
Bastian would not have been listed, if he did not announce his return. We have to rank him then for the Fantasy thing.
If Carmen or Jacobs would announce their appearance at an event, then I would probably rate them at 45 points.

Here would be my list in more detail...

EUROPEAN RANKING FOR FANTASY AND SEEDING:

50 Emil Wallin 2013 (2 time world champ, multiple EC champ)
48 Bastian Winkelhaus 2017 (1 time World champ, 5 time EC champ)
47 Emil Wallin 2017 (2 time world champ with not making EC top 8 in 2017)

45 Angelo Consoli (1 time world champ with countless top 8 and finals)
43 Nico Kreidl (3 time EC champ with no recent wins)
42 Ziemowit (Krypto) Skwara (1 time EC champ and 2 time runner up in last 2 years)

40 (all tied: 1 time EC champs, all with multiple times in top 8, and all in top 8 in 2017. All also won several regionals)
Casper Jorgensen
Chris Menzel
David (DDM) Destefanis

We can discuss this over and over, but I believe it's close enough to put the players in 5 groups.
If I hadn't hade top 8, then I would have dropped me a group for example.

From what you wrote in the last post we would be similar in opinion.
Except for Jimmy. He has not won the EC yet, but has been in the top 8 a couple of time and had to leave 2-3 times. ;)
As much * as I gave him for that... I have no doubt that he belongs in the second group!
He's easily one of the best player in Europe, but I cannot prove it with recent ratings alone.
Chris (Euro Emperor) Menzel
Hannover - Germany

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Hutch
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Hutch »

1) Wooohooo! I'm worth 15 points! I'm ahead of day old stale beer now!

2) Rankings and Seedings. I'm not a Euro player so I won't pretend to know enough to give an opinion on who should be ranked what. But I am a 'systems' guy. So if nothing else, maybe my opinion can help you guys brainstorm your way to how you want to do this. Or if nothing else, my opinion will be so bad you'll know what you DON'T want to do. I think rankings & seedings are (should be) two different topics.

2.a.) Seedings. I would recommend you get a panel together of 5 people who know the Euro community very well and have them rank the MPC participants in order. Then you average the experts' seedings and make that the seedings for the Euro MPC.

2.b.) Rankings. I still hold the belief that the old Decipher Swiss system was ideal. You don't lose points for being inactive, but an active player who gets enough quality wins has the chance to pass a great inactive player. Step 1, choose a cutoff. Maybe former World Champions and Former EC champions. Those players get an automatic +X number of points for each that they've won. Everyone else starts off at the same level. In the old Decipher system that was 1500. You beat someone ranked equal with you, you gain +8 points on your ranking and they lose -8 points on theirs. (Someone will have to research the Swiss system more to get the exact point breakdown). You beat a former World Champ, you gain a lot more points for that one win. The rankings will be a little lopsided at first in favor of former champions, but eventually, the field will catch up and people will fall in line with where their ability/performances merit that they be. I think it's a much easier task to just pick a starting point and go forward with it than try to do too much retroactively.
3rd place 2016 Virginia States; 3rd place 2017 Virginia States; Top 8 Euro MPC 2018; 5th place 2018 German Nationals; 5th Place 2018 Kashyyyk Regionals; 3rd place 2018 Massachusetts States; 2019 Massachusetts League Champion; 3rd place 2019 Nal Hutta Regionals
Honorary member of Team Wales & Pretty much the best player in East Africa.
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by DDM »

Heh sorry didn't see this :-D

Well, it's hard to add anything, I pretty much agree with all you wrote.
I wouldn't overthink it though.

Also, consider that a MPC is not a Standard tournament.
Not that it would change THAT much the overall results, but it's a different kind of game, that's all.

I do consider myself far from my peek and I consider myself happy enough to continue doing well at events for the few games I play every year.
So I'm fine to be where I am, and I wouldn't move me. Even last EC, you could say I did pretty well beating twice Emil, but then I still couldn't pass the first match in Day 3, so that counts too.

Also, Chris, I know us EC players want to do everything perfect and fair, but remember that we also don't care for perfection. we're here to have fun so again, don't worry too much :)
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Shadow 14
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Shadow 14 »

Thanks, David!

It's just that we always need the list again for the fantasy EC and now also for the seeding.
I know that all you guys are in for fun. Same with me. If I always played at my peak times... ;)

By the way, mon ami... where are you on the main Euro MPC list?
I want to see you and Alexandra here in Hannover! Meike also asked for you guys a couple of times!
Chris (Euro Emperor) Menzel
Hannover - Germany

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Silverglen
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Silverglen »

Would it be useful to have a running system updated after each qualifying event; utilizing the Fantasy/Seeded list as a starting point? The current playter of the year system is as that points are earned based on finish and attendance, in the following manner:

Tournaments with:
8 or fewer players- 1st place: 1 point
9-16 players- 1st place: 2 points, 2nd place: 1 point
17-24 players- 1st place: 3 points, 2nd place: 2 points, 3rd/4th place: 1 point
25-35 players- 1st place: 4 points, 2nd place: 3 points, 3rd/4th place: 2 points
36-47 players- 1st place: 6 points, 2nd place: 4 points, 3rd/4th place: 3 point, 5th-8th place: 2 points
48+ players- 1st place: 8 points, 2nd place: 6 points, 3rd/4th place 4 points, 5th-8th place: 2 points

Leagues:
1st place: 2 points, 2nd place: 1 point

These points are then multiplied based on the tier level of the tournament, as follows:
Level 1 (States, Provincials, Mini Opens, Leagues, Holotable (OTMS) events): x1
Level 2 (Regionals, European Nationals): x1.5
Level 3 (Majors): x2
Level 4 (Worlds): x2.5

We only need to consider European events....?
Welsh National Winner 2019, 5th Euro 2018, OCS Finalist
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Silverglen »

If this is the case the current list (not including Fantasy players) from EC onwards is:

Bastian Winklehaus 12
Ziemowit Skwara 8
Jimmy Faelens 6
Angelo Consoli 6
Jonas Hagan 4
Chris Menzel 4
Casper Jorgensen 4
David Destefanis 4


Which incidentally also echos most of your seeding predictions
Welsh National Winner 2019, 5th Euro 2018, OCS Finalist
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