Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Darth_Link »

Calaglin wrote:I second this motion
Only downside is that you would end up outside the rankings.


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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Shadow 14 »

The posts by DDM and silverglen sound good enough for me.
(Also the not overcomplicating things... again (!) every-one can chime in here!)
The one from Grady can also be helpful for seeding later.

I have marked the ones I consider "confirmed" in green in the first post.
Let's do the LAST 3 groups now. Saving the most complicated for last.

Paul suggested:
15
Jonas Jakubowski
Nelson Cazon
Quirin Fürgut
Rasmus Juul

10
David Luhaaer
Eric Spijksma
Julien-Andres Smolarek

Kent Larsen
Łukasz Saczek
Martin Den Boef
Piotr Mr. Bird

Ralf Wachowiak
Stefan Boersma
Ulli Reuter

5
Bertrand Momal
Christopher
Darren Marlins
Lars Beard & Googles
Martin Sommer
Massimiliano Collussi
Mike Klarenbeek
Mike Rosenberger
Pete The Welsh
Robert Smolarek
Stephan Allhoff



Here is what Chris suggested:
15
David Luhaaer
Gosse Zeilstra
Grady Hutchins
Kent Larsen
Łukasz Saczek
Ralf Wachowiak
Stefan Boersma
Ulli Reuter

10
Bertrand Momal
Eric Spijksma
Julien-Andres Smolarek
Martin Den Boef
Massimiliano Collussi
Piotr Mr. Bird
Robert Smolarek

5
Christopher
Darren Marlins
Lars Beard & Googles
Martin Sommer
Mike Klarenbeek
Mike Rosenberger
Pete The Welsh
Stephan Allhoff


Green are the ones we already agree on.
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Paul McPherson »

Shadow 14 wrote:The posts by DDM and silverglen sound good enough for me.
(Also the not overcomplicating things... again (!) every-one can chime in here!)
The one from Grady can also be helpful for seeding later.

I have marked the ones I consider "confirmed" in green in the first post.
Let's do the LAST 3 groups now. Saving the most complicated for last.

Paul suggested:
15
Jonas Jakubowski
Nelson Cazon
Quirin Fürgut
Rasmus Juul

10
David Luhaaer
Eric Spijksma
Julien-Andres Smolarek

Kent Larsen
Łukasz Saczek
Martin Den Boef
Piotr Mr. Bird

Ralf Wachowiak
Stefan Boersma
Ulli Reuter

5
Bertrand Momal
Christopher
Darren Marlins
Lars Beard & Googles
Martin Sommer
Massimiliano Collussi
Mike Klarenbeek
Mike Rosenberger
Pete The Welsh
Robert Smolarek
Stephan Allhoff



Here is what Chris suggested:
15
David Luhaaer
Gosse Zeilstra
Grady Hutchins
Kent Larsen
Łukasz Saczek
Ralf Wachowiak
Stefan Boersma
Ulli Reuter

10
Bertrand Momal
Eric Spijksma
Julien-Andres Smolarek
Martin Den Boef
Massimiliano Collussi
Piotr Mr. Bird
Robert Smolarek

5
Christopher
Darren Marlins
Lars Beard & Googles
Martin Sommer
Mike Klarenbeek
Mike Rosenberger
Pete The Welsh
Stephan Allhoff


Green are the ones we already agree on.
Just for information, because I wanted to spread out some players further up my starting point was to combine your 10 point and 5 point groups in to a 5 point group before moving up anyone that I felt was slightly stronger (Eric, Julien, Martin and Piotr). It is not that I disagreed with your groups at the lower end just that I wanted an extra group which created a little turbulence :-D .
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Shadow 14 »

Ok, to keep it simple I suggest the following...
there are 13 players "not green" in Paul's list, so 13 players where we see it differently.

I can understand WHY you chose most of the rankings, because they reflect the current ratings better, so I can accept most.
For example I think that Ulli, Jonas Jaku or Rasmus belong "one up", but the recent tourneys don't reflect it, so I have to agree. They will be up again soon anyway imo.

I would like to "veto" 3 players.

Massimiliano:
He really should not be less than 10. Sometimes annoying language and timing issues aside, he often was placed in the first third of the players at the EC, so I would veto him to 10.

Ralf Wachowiak:
He's a veteran player, who has beaten Angelo, me and others. He ranked pretty exactly in the middle (#24) at the EC, so I would put him at 15.

Stefan Boersma:
Yes, he sucked at day 2 this year (probably bad decks), but he won the Cube with good playing skills. I see him at 15, if no-one objects.


So, again... every-one can comment on this, and tell us if we're missing something or if Paul or I are wrong.
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Calaglin »

Darth_Link wrote:
Calaglin wrote:I second this motion
Only downside is that you would end up outside the rankings.
Does that count as a record?
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Paul McPherson »

Shadow 14 wrote:Ok, to keep it simple I suggest the following...
there are 13 players "not green" in Paul's list, so 13 players where we see it differently.

I can understand WHY you chose most of the rankings, because they reflect the current ratings better, so I can accept most.
For example I think that Ulli, Jonas Jaku or Rasmus belong "one up", but the recent tourneys don't reflect it, so I have to agree. They will be up again soon anyway imo.

I would like to "veto" 3 players.

Massimiliano:
He really should not be less than 10. Sometimes annoying language and timing issues aside, he often was placed in the first third of the players at the EC, so I would veto him to 10.

Ralf Wachowiak:
He's a veteran player, who has beaten Angelo, me and others. He ranked pretty exactly in the middle (#24) at the EC, so I would put him at 15.

Stefan Boersma:
Yes, he sucked at day 2 this year (probably bad decks), but he won the Cube with good playing skills. I see him at 15, if no-one objects.


So, again... every-one can comment on this, and tell us if we're missing something or if Paul or I are wrong.
:yes: To be honest, unless I have either personally played against them (which I have for a lot of these players) or they have played in other events beyond the EC then my opinion matters very little here (which is probably true for a lot of us!).
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Shadow 14 »

Paul McPherson wrote: :yes: To be honest, unless I have either personally played against them (which I have for a lot of these players) or they have played in other events beyond the EC then my opinion matters very little here (which is probably true for a lot of us!).


Well, you were the only one posting a ranking, so your opinion DOES matter.
In fact, right now we're trying to make it a mix of yours and mine. ;)
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by DDM »

Massimiliano is an old glory, he did well in the long time past, but now not anymore.
Point is, I agree he should be 10.
He is definitively not "5" material.
He has his ups and downs, but I wouldn't put him so low on the bracket. Also because he tests with me and gets decks built by me :-D
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Shadow 14 »

[Since there were no more comments on the 5-15 pointers we go on to the difficult 20-35.

Paul had this:
Paul McPherson wrote: EUROPEAN RANKING FOR FANTASY AND SEEDING:

35
Cedric Venderhaegen
Kevin Japp
Jerome Nitschke

30
Patrik Csapi
Tobias (TB) Bukkehave
Paul McPherson
Jonas Hagen
Jon Holtet

25
Marc Nickels
Jordi Brainschrat
Koen Meijssen
Hipo
Tony DaCosta
Stephan de Vos
John Moorley
Marvin Tegeler
Piotr Jarnot
Tamas Papp

20
Moritz Krage
Nico Oster
Gosse Zeilstra
Floris deVries
sorry, trying to copy /paste and edit these large lists on the phone is a pain. Bear with the old man.
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Shadow 14 »

And I had this...

30-35
Cedric Venderhaegen 
Hipo 
Jerome Nitschke 
John Moorley 
Jon Holtet 
Kevin Jaap 
Tobias (TB) Bukkehave 
Tony DaCosta

25
Koen Meijssen
Marc Nickels
Marvin Tegeler 
Patrick Csapi 
Paul McPherson
Piotr Jarnot 
Tamas Papp 

20
Brainschrat
Floris deVries
Moritz Krage 
Nico Oster 
Quirin Fürgut
Stephan de Vos

Please add any comments you have. Otherwise I will try to combine those 2 lists.
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Shadow 14 »

Combined list for 20-35 from Chris' and Paul's lists...

35
Cedric Venderhaegen

Jerome Nitschke
Jonas Hagen Norregaard
Jon Benkert Holtet
Kevin Japp

30
John Moorley
Paul McPherson
Patrik Csapi
Tobias (TB) Bukkehave
Tony DaCosta

25
Jordi (Brainschrat) P.
Koen Meijssen
Marc Nickels
Marvin Tegeler
Piotr Jarnot
Stephan de Vos
Tamas Papp

Wojciech (Hipo) Wisniewski

20
Floris deVries
Gosse Zeilstra
Moritz Krage
Nico Oster


The green ones are the ones we agreed on. There were some I had a bit different, but I was going from a scale of 5-45 (not 5-50) at the time.
Paul also listed the events from 2016-2017, which helps to evaluate things better. Some comments on the greens:

Jordi (Brainschrat) P. -> fared well at several events, so putting him 1 group up is ok.
Marc Nickels -> we both had him at 25, although I knew we didn't do good at the last EC, but thought he did not play much at the regionals/nationals. He actually appears quite a bit as 2nd-4th place, and top 8ed twice, so I think he's undervalued at 25.
Stephan de Vos -> agree that he should be one higher
Tobias Bukkehave -> Also top 8ed at least twice, and could be one higher, but didn't have any recent wins (although be played), so I guess it's ok.

There is one (marked blue) you had at 25 and I would have put at 35, so we can meet in the middle ;)
Tony DaCosta -> He top 8ed once, made #9 on his first EC and did well in the few events he played in.

There are 3 I would veto again...
John Moorley -> recent regional/natonal winner and did well at the EC (place 12), so currently I would put him one up.
Jonas Hagen Norregaard -> recent regional/national winner and also top 8 this year. I want to put him at 35.
Jon Benkert Holtet -> King Jon did constantly well over the years. Many times runner up, top places, etc. He is a definite 35 in my book.

If I say "veto", then I mean between Paul's and my list. Again, any-one else feel free to give their opinion and we can discuss and adjust accordingly.
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by DDM »

Jimmy should know best about Tony.
For me he seems fine at 30, but I am always wary of my french "teammates", so I'm always tense playing them (but for Jimmy).
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

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Any other comments, objections or vetos?? ;)
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by JimmyFrench »

DDM wrote:Jimmy should know best about Tony.
For me he seems fine at 30, but I am always wary of my french "teammates", so I'm always tense playing them (but for Jimmy).
As I didn’t played for a while, the actual tony’s level is 30.
It’s an excellent player, but he play twice WE a year.
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Shadow 14 »

We have 2 further additions. One has paid and one told me he wants to come.

Jonas Sonne Jacobsen (Denmark) I would put at 10 points after corresponding with Jonas Hagen.

Julian Fuss (Germany) is very, very difficult. He won lots of events 10 years ago and I would have put him shortly under Angelo and Nico back then, so 40-45 points. Then he didn't play for 5 years. He played at Euro Worlds with some borrowed decks and without training (I literally convinced him to come the week before), and made top 8. :shock:
Now he hasn't played again for 5 years. I would deduct 1 point per year of not playing and put him (form 40-5) at 35 points.
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by aermet69 »

Shadow 14 wrote:We have 2 further additions. One has paid and one told me he wants to come.

Jonas Sonne Jacobsen (Denmark) I would put at 10 points after corresponding with Jonas Hagen.

Julian Fuss (Germany) is very, very difficult. He won lots of events 10 years ago and I would have put him shortly under Angelo and Nico back then, so 40-45 points. Then he didn't play for 5 years. He played at Euro Worlds with some borrowed decks and without training (I literally convinced him to come the week before), and made top 8. :shock:
Now he hasn't played again for 5 years. I would deduct 1 point per year of not playing and put him (form 40-5) at 35 points.
Cool! and part of the agreement. Glad to see he honors it. I would certainly put him in the high end so 35 sounds about right. A gamble to pick him, but he could easily be worth the points.
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Shadow 14 »

Thanks for the feedback, Casper.

If you guys have no more comments or suggestions for the 20-35 group (or anything else), then I'd complete the list tomorrow.
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Shadow 14 »

Since there were no more comments, I have updated the list in the first post.
This is what we will use as the basis for seeding as well.
Aside from that, we will obviously try not to pair any team/country mates against each other in early rounds.

I'll wait till 15th January and then start the seeding and pairing process.

Paul, can I count on you to help me with that?

If any-one else wants in on that, please let me know.
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Paul McPherson »

Shadow 14 wrote:Since there were no more comments, I have updated the list in the first post.
This is what we will use as the basis for seeding as well.
Aside from that, we will obviously try not to pair any team/country mates against each other in early rounds.

I'll wait till 15th January and then start the seeding and pairing process.

Paul, can I count on you to help me with that?

If any-one else wants in on that, please let me know.
Of course :-D
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Re: Fantasy Euro MPC and Seeding

Post by Paul McPherson »

I assume that Kevin Japp and King Jon of Denmark got a boost for being the reigning Team Tournament Champions? :lol: :lol: :lol:

(I never get tired of trolling the Welsh)
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