Two Format Changes

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imrahil327
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Two Format Changes

Post by imrahil327 »

Hello all, we hope that you are all looking forward to Worlds! Over the years, there have been a variety of ideas suggested for updating and improving the format of our most prestigious event, with varying levels of popularity and support. Recently, two such ideas have gained sufficient momentum that the Tournament Committee has decided to implement them on a trial basis for the 2018 World Championship. A couple of notes before I introduce these changes:
•As I mentioned, these ideas are intended to improve the experience of the players. But they are a trial, and if they are not successful in meeting that goal, we won't retain them going forward. We will re-evaluate them after Worlds, including feedback from those who participated directly. That said, if they don't appeal to you, I do urge you all to give them a fair shake rather than dismissing them before they are used.
•Secondly, it is important to be clear that these two changes are not intrinsically connected to each other. We are making two changes because both of them make sense to the Tournament Committee and Advocates, but when evaluating them, we would ask that you be very clear as to which one you are discussing. It is possible that one will be positive, and one will ultimately not be, but we don't want both painted with the same brush if there are negative feelings about them.

Now, on to the changes!

New procedures for determining the Top 8 competitors
The Worlds Top 8 will be determined by following these rules/procedures:
1) All players who finish 7-1 or better are guaranteed to make the Top 8 without playing a play-in game.
2) If there are exactly 8 players who finish with a record of 6-2 or better, those 8 players will make up the Top 8.
3) If there are fewer than 8 players who finish 6-2 or better, they will all make the Top 8. The remaining spots in the Top 8 will be filled by the highest ranked 5-3 players, based on tiebreakers (no play-in games).
4) If there are more than 8 players who finish 6-2 or better, they will be seeded based on tiebreakers, and the lowest seeds will immediately play a single play-in game, with the higher seed (based on tiebreakers) choosing the sides. There will be as many play-in games as needed, based on the exact number of players who finished 6-2 or better. If there are 9 players at 6-2 or better, then the #8 and #9 seeds will play each other for the #8 seed. If there are 10 players at 6-2 or better, then the #7 and #10 seeds will play each other for the #7 seed and the #8 and #9 seeds will play each other for the #8 seed. And so on.
5) In the very unlikely situation where there are enough 6-2 players that rule #4 would create a play-in game against a 7-1 player, rule #1 takes priority. In this case, the lowest ranked 6-2 player(s) will be eliminated without a play-in game, based on tiebreakers. (EXAMPLE: There are 4 players at 7-1 or better and 9 players at 6-2. The lowest ranked 6-2 player (#13 overall seed) will be immediately eliminated. The remaining 8 6-2 players will play play-in games - #5 vs #12, #6 vs #11, #7 vs #10, and #8 vs #9.)

This change is intended to minimize the effects of SoS tiebreakers, and allow players who perform well on the day to be rewarded for their play. It also creates further incentive for playing optimally in the final 2 games, in order to attempt to play for one of the "locked" 7-1 or better spots.

Randomized Top 8 pairings
Rather than using a strict 1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, etc. bracket for the Top 8, the top 4 players and bottom 4 players will randomly be paired. This will be done using random.org, after decklists have been turned in. Players in top 8 may still choose to switch decks between Swiss and Top 8, or may choose not to. Each top 4 player will be paired against one of the bottom 4 players. The player from the top 4 retains the honor of choosing which side to play first. After the quarterfinal round, the players will be re-seeded according to their standings from the Swiss portion of the tournament, and the semifinal round and final round will be conducted as normal.

Example:
The top 8 at the end of Swiss:
1. Chris
2. Tim
3. Keith
4. Matt
5. Scott
6. Jeremy
7. John
8. Bob

The pairings for the quarterfinals are done randomly, with one of the top 4 being paired against one of the bottom 4, resulting in these pairings:
Keith vs Scott
Chris vs John
Matt vs Bob
Tim vs Jeremy

Keith, Chris, Bob, and Jeremy win their matches, and are then reseeded based on their initial seeding. The semifinals are thus paired:
Chris vs Bob
Keith vs Jeremy

And the finals would be similarly paired, with the higher seed always retaining the choice of side.


This change relieves some pressure from players who might feel they need to metagame or tech against a given opponent who is their first round matchup, and instead allows players to simply choose the decks they feel are best and play out the tournament accordingly. It also allows for more relaxation and fellowship Saturday night, as those who are in the Top 8 will not need to test or plan around specific matchups for the next day.


We expect that these changes will both improve the overall experience of the World Championship, and look forward to seeing you all there! If you have any questions, please post them below.


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Re: Two Format Changes

Post by arebelspy »

I am super excited about change number one!

Not sure how I feel about change two yet, but definitely not against it. Just not sure if I'm for it. But I am for trying new things, so I guess that would tilt me towards a yes on it.

Thanks tournament committee for your continual improvement of our SWCCG experience!

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Re: Two Format Changes

Post by chriskelly »

:thumbs:

Good work. I know you guys put a lot of work and thought into these. Looking forward to them!

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Re: Two Format Changes

Post by allstarz97 »

arebelspy wrote:I am super excited about change number one!

Not sure how I feel about change two yet, but definitely not against it. Just not sure if I'm for it. But I am for trying new things, so I guess that would tilt me towards a yes on it.

Thanks tournament committee for your continual improvement of our SWCCG experience!

You truly must be led by a creative, talented, and handsome individual.
Joe one thing to mention: The second change actually helps a potential problem with the first. As we discussed making the changes, one thing that came up was a potential disadvantage to the player who would be facing a winner of a play in game. So say exactly 9 players are 6-2+, and you 8-0. Well standings are announced and everyone knows who they are playing... except you- you have to wait another hour or so to know who you are playing. You could argue it’s not much of a disadvantage if at all but it did come up.

I’m pretty excited about both changes.

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Re: Two Format Changes

Post by arebelspy »

That's true.

The only people disadvantaged are those playing the extra game, and the answer is easy: win more and you won't face that. Doesn't work if you're the #1 seed.

Good point Justin, thanks for pointing that out.

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Re: Two Format Changes

Post by Darth_Link »

Exciting changes.
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Re: Two Format Changes

Post by Death Star »

imrahil327 wrote: 4) If there are more than 8 players who finish 6-2 or better, they will be seeded based on tiebreakers, and the lowest seeds will immediately play a single play-in game, with the higher seed (based on tiebreakers) choosing the sides.
Sounds good to me.
1) with „immediately“, I hope you mean with the least possible amount of time to ask around what decks the lower seeded player plays? I would suggest seating the higher seeded player on his game table immediately on announcement of his position before announcing the lower seeded player. And no other people in that area, at least until start of game. Hope this matches with your plans.

2) do we wanna copy this for the European championship?
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Re: Two Format Changes

Post by allstarz97 »

Death Star wrote:
imrahil327 wrote: 4) If there are more than 8 players who finish 6-2 or better, they will be seeded based on tiebreakers, and the lowest seeds will immediately play a single play-in game, with the higher seed (based on tiebreakers) choosing the sides.
Sounds good to me.
1) with „immediately“, I hope you mean with the least possible amount of time to ask around what decks the lower seeded player plays? I would suggest seating the higher seeded player on his game table immediately on announcement of his position before announcing the lower seeded player. And no other people in that area, at least until start of game. Hope this matches with your plans.

2) do we wanna copy this for the European championship?
Interesting, counterpoint would be that the more networked players would be gathering this info as the event progresses.. playing devils advocate here but I don’t think we want to be in a situation where we want to have players sequestered when they go to the bathroom and stuff.

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Re: Two Format Changes

Post by WiseMarsellus »

why not just have the higher seeded players pick their side preference prior to finding out who their opponents are?
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Re: Two Format Changes

Post by WiseMarsellus »

or just to make it easier, all 6-2s submit to the td what side they will pick if they are in the position to do so. then td works out sos, and gives effect to the relevant side preferences
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Re: Two Format Changes

Post by Death Star »

allstarz97 wrote:
Death Star wrote:
imrahil327 wrote: 4) If there are more than 8 players who finish 6-2 or better, they will be seeded based on tiebreakers, and the lowest seeds will immediately play a single play-in game, with the higher seed (based on tiebreakers) choosing the sides.
Sounds good to me.
1) with „immediately“, I hope you mean with the least possible amount of time to ask around what decks the lower seeded player plays? I would suggest seating the higher seeded player on his game table immediately on announcement of his position before announcing the lower seeded player. And no other people in that area, at least until start of game. Hope this matches with your plans.

2) do we wanna copy this for the European championship?
Interesting, counterpoint would be that the more networked players would be gathering this info as the event progresses.. playing devils advocate here but I don’t think we want to be in a situation where we want to have players sequestered when they go to the bathroom and stuff.
Sure you cannot prevent that. But i would be against making it easy.
So Step 1) "Alright, we are about to announce the top 8, remembeer play-in games, if you are 6-2, please go to the bathroom now because play-in games will start immediately after the announcement"
Step 2) "And here are our top 8. We actually have 11 players going 6-2 or better, so there will be 3 play-in games. ... And in 6th place: Mr X. Please come sit over here for your play-in game. In 7th place: Mr. Y. Please come sit over here for your play-in game." Etc.
Step 3) Don't allow anyone but those 6 players and the TDs into the playing area at least until the 3 top players announced what side they want to play.
"i know it won worlds,but it can't win anything in the local meta of michigan.we paly card for card what you ahve and still don't win"

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Re: Two Format Changes

Post by allstarz97 »

Death Star wrote:
allstarz97 wrote:
Death Star wrote:
imrahil327 wrote: 4) If there are more than 8 players who finish 6-2 or better, they will be seeded based on tiebreakers, and the lowest seeds will immediately play a single play-in game, with the higher seed (based on tiebreakers) choosing the sides.
Sounds good to me.
1) with „immediately“, I hope you mean with the least possible amount of time to ask around what decks the lower seeded player plays? I would suggest seating the higher seeded player on his game table immediately on announcement of his position before announcing the lower seeded player. And no other people in that area, at least until start of game. Hope this matches with your plans.

2) do we wanna copy this for the European championship?
Interesting, counterpoint would be that the more networked players would be gathering this info as the event progresses.. playing devils advocate here but I don’t think we want to be in a situation where we want to have players sequestered when they go to the bathroom and stuff.
Sure you cannot prevent that. But i would be against making it easy.
So Step 1) "Alright, we are about to announce the top 8, remembeer play-in games, if you are 6-2, please go to the bathroom now because play-in games will start immediately after the announcement"
Step 2) "And here are our top 8. We actually have 11 players going 6-2 or better, so there will be 3 play-in games. ... And in 6th place: Mr X. Please come sit over here for your play-in game. In 7th place: Mr. Y. Please come sit over here for your play-in game." Etc.
Step 3) Don't allow anyone but those 6 players and the TDs into the playing area at least until the 3 top players announced what side they want to play.
Yeah that’s solid

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Re: Two Format Changes

Post by imrahil327 »

I’m not certain, but tom’s solution works also, right? Could even do it after game 7: everyone who is potentially ending at 6-2 after this game, submit the side you’ll pick if you are the higher seed in a play-in.
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Re: Two Format Changes

Post by WiseMarsellus »

yeah i think just when you're handing in your command card after going 6-2 tell the td your side preference
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Re: Two Format Changes

Post by aermet69 »

Why not just go the opposite way. Sit at the table. Announce your decks (Objective or starting location). Higher seed picks side. Play.

There's a solid chance the players have already played once before, and there's a good chance a friend of yours played them earlier or you randomly looked over his shoulder during round 3. That makes good seeding even more important and no one is having an unfair advantage over anyone else.
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Re: Two Format Changes

Post by allstarz97 »

aermet69 wrote:Why not just go the opposite way. Sit at the table. Announce your decks (Objective or starting location). Higher seed picks side. Play.

There's a solid chance the players have already played once before, and there's a good chance a friend of yours played them earlier or you randomly looked over his shoulder during round 3. That makes good seeding even more important and no one is having an unfair advantage over anyone else.
I like that too... like everyone reveals line 1 of their decklist essentially?

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Re: Two Format Changes

Post by WiseMarsellus »

yeah the question is how much do you want to preference seeding advantage. i think we should minimize it
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Re: Two Format Changes

Post by aermet69 »

allstarz97 wrote:
aermet69 wrote:Why not just go the opposite way. Sit at the table. Announce your decks (Objective or starting location). Higher seed picks side. Play.

There's a solid chance the players have already played once before, and there's a good chance a friend of yours played them earlier or you randomly looked over his shoulder during round 3. That makes good seeding even more important and no one is having an unfair advantage over anyone else.
I like that too... like everyone reveals line 1 of their decklist essentially?
Essentially yes. Then there's no reason to be secretive. Hell you can even chat with your opponent about the choices and you don't need to not tell people during the day how stuff went and how cool it was playing QMC against his ISB. Because your 6-2 opponent 'will' know what your objective is.
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Re: Two Format Changes

Post by aermet69 »

WiseMarsellus wrote:yeah the question is how much do you want to preference seeding advantage. i think we should minimize it
But you are doing it already. It's just luck/information based instead of open and equal to all.
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Re: Two Format Changes

Post by WiseMarsellus »

well, you're already picking the side you want. that's an advantage. if you know both decks and then can pick, that's more of an advantage. i think your idea is the best one if we have them decide after seeing who the matches are. i just think it's better that they decide beforehand
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