arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

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Re: arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

Post by mrfahrenheit7 »

Yeah I think you would be surprised how many new or inexperienced players will watch the stream (live or after the fact). When I was first starting to get into things that was one of my biggest resources. I'd go to twitch and YouTube and look up major tournament streams from the last 5 years. I strongly recommend making the commentary at least somewhat narp friendly.

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Re: arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

Post by arebelspy »

mrfahrenheit7 wrote:I strongly recommend making the commentary at least somewhat narp friendly.
I definitely will, and specifically mentioned that in the OP, but I feel like commentaries I've listened to are too much about explaining what the cards do, and there's very little analysis. Very little high level strategy talk, or discussion of alternate plays, etc.

I want more of that.

But it is true if the vast majority of people watching are NARPs, I should skip that.

Like, sometimes I can't even watch replays because it's very dull to me without that discussion. But I realize that it might be dull to narps to just be confused if they don't know what I'm talking about when I talk about why the system is the most crucial part of the matchup, or whatever.

If the majority watching are SWCCG players and want the higher level analysis, and there's only a handful of Narps who watch and might be confused with a little less hand-holding, that's important to know.

Do we have any data whatsoever on who watches the stream/recordings?

Naturally, I will do my best to do both--explain/describe for narps, and analyze for experienced players. But even knowing which way to tilt it would be useful. Overall my goal with this is to bring in more of the higher level analysis. I guess we'll see if that's a mistake? Or if there's evidence I shouldn't do it, that's fine, I can just have it be all NARP based the whole time. Either way, I won't be excluding or forgetting about them, I just want it to go beyond, and in the past I feel like it hasn't, but there might be good reason for that.

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Re: arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

Post by Cam Solusar »

I think the high-level stuff is really good for everyone, even NARPS, honestly. The commentary on the finals from Worlds last year was really good. That might be the sort of gameplay analysis that I find most interesting/helpful when watching streams, and I fail to see how NARPs couldn't benefit from talk on that level. Can't recall who the commentators were. Maybe you and Desai?
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Re: arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

Post by gogolen »

even if they don't understand it all this weekend, then they just have to go back at watch it again 6 months from now. Its good to have that type of content in the pool.
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Re: arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

Post by vhstapes »

gogolen wrote:even if they don't understand it all this weekend, then they just have to go back at watch it again 6 months from now. Its good to have that type of content in the pool.
I was gonna comment something to this effect. Like, a year ago I would have been fully on team narp-friendly. Now I'm much more interested in high level analysis, and I tend to agree with Cam as well that it is beneficial for NARPs too.
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Re: arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

Post by arebelspy »

Cool.

That's a good point about higher level strategy being good for NARPs, both now (so they can quickly improve versus basic descriptions) and on rewatching six months from now.

Like I said, I'll definitely keep the NARPs in mind, but also try to offer some more in-depth strategy.

We'll see how it goes, take feedback, and improve for next time. :)

I'll try to get feedback from twitch live, too, if I need to add more base explanation to what I'm saying. Image

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Re: arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

Post by Cam Solusar »

arebelspy wrote:Like I said, I'll definitely keep the NARPs in mind, but also try to offer some more in-depth strategy.
I think the phrase "keeping NARPs in mind" covers verbal shortcuts, slang, and "common knowledge" more than it does in-depth strategy; in other words I don't think in-depth strategy is NARP-unfriendly.

What might be NARP unfriendly are inside jokes, card abbreviations, or game states where a nominally experienced player might have an inkling of the possibilities, but a NARP would not. Like saying "Brian Fred has 3 Force saved so Reid needs to play this turn carefully" might be self explanatory to you or I, but a NARP might need to have explained to them that this could mean the ability to both Barrier and react with Spiral (or any number of other things). Or a player might deploy First Strike against their opponent who has no force saved, and you or I would know the significant of that, but a NARP might not immediately get the connection between that and a player being unable to use all of the battle interrupts they have stocked up in their hand.
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Re: arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

Post by arebelspy »

Cam Solusar wrote:
arebelspy wrote:Like I said, I'll definitely keep the NARPs in mind, but also try to offer some more in-depth strategy.
I think the phrase "keeping NARPs in mind" covers verbal shortcuts, slang, and "common knowledge" more than it does in-depth strategy; in other words I don't think in-depth strategy is NARP-unfriendly.
Fair enough. I think we've had a lack of it, and the reason given was usually "because NARPs." You're probably right, though, in-depth strategy isn't inherently NARP unfriendly, unless explained in an inaccessible way.
What might be NARP unfriendly are inside jokes
No worries on that one; consider me Michael Scott.

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card abbreviations, or game states where a nominally experienced player might have an inkling of the possibilities, but a NARP would not. Like saying "Brian Fred has 3 Force saved so Reid needs to play this turn carefully" might be self explanatory to you or I, but a NARP might need to have explained to them that this could mean the ability to both Barrier and react with Spiral (or any number of other things). Or a player might deploy First Strike against their opponent who has no force saved, and you or I would know the significant of that, but a NARP might not immediately get the connection between that and a player being unable to use all of the battle interrupts they have stocked up in their hand.
Definitely. All of that I'd mention anyways, for players of all levels.

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Re: arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

Post by DTartagOne »

Joe, the best thing I can offer is to have focus on your role, whether that is play by play or color. Bouncing between roles will confuse the people who are watching.

I would try to interview both players after the games, if there is time. Maybe write down questions as they are playing, that way we have individual questions.

Any idea if Joe will have the decklists available to him during the commentary?
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Re: arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

Post by marines28 »

DTartagOne wrote:Joe, the best thing I can offer is to have focus on your role, whether that is play by play or color. Bouncing between roles will confuse the people who are watching.

I would try to interview both players after the games, if there is time. Maybe write down questions as they are playing, that way we have individual questions.

Any idea if Joe will have the decklists available to him during the commentary?
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Re: arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

Post by CRG »

I have learned the most about this game from watching tournament replays, watching games on GEMP, and going through decklists to understand how and why a deck works - or doesn't.

Saying that, I'd recommend the following:

Talk about the matchups, starting with the objectives and starting cards and what kinds of cards or strategies are commonly seen from the deck or the player him/herself, to the extent you have that inside knowledge. For example, explain how the deck usually sets up, its activation platform(s), what its early/mid/late game options look like, and how it generally wins and the style of the same (e.g. ISB can grind it out; Profit can ping or win with a Nabrun beatdown, e.g.) You can also include in here discussion of what interactions could be expected throughout the game, like commonly played defensive/offensive interrupts. These can be talked about as options, and not as predictive things.

If players show their opening hands to the cameras - which is super helpful, btw - talk about what options that does or does not the player, especially with the overall strategy that can be expected from an objective (Map, e.g.).

Having a side screen where the card(s) being talked about can be pulled up contemporaneously is hugely helpful - that way viewers don't need to skip back and forth between Scomp Link to understand what's going on.

Play-by-play is great, as is giving power/battle destiny draw counts, force activation, and pile counts if possible (e.g. Dark Side has three force left in his force pile and 10 cards in hand, making Light be cautious of anything it does during this turn - Barrier, Grabber, etc.). Commentary on what shields have been played, and how many shield pulls from starting effect are remaining is good - again, talk about options.

Lastly, newer players don't know what they don't know. From this area, your insights on strategy will be incredibly helpful.
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Re: arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

Post by teh_brainiac »

as a player who goes back and rewatches games of myself that have been streamed, I would love to hear maybe if you have some sort of general gameplan pre matchup. like for example TRM vs TTO, maybe before the game starts talk about how ls in general wants to set up a big drain on the ground asap, then transition to holding a system.

As far as pointing out mistakes, i think its fine - just be careful if you dont understand why they made a certain play. i remember i got super flamed on stream for playing ultimatum when they were only draining for 2 vs a known its worse deck and then literally playing it could be worse like 10 secs later.
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Re: arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

Post by Death Star »

DTartagOne wrote: Any idea if Joe will have the decklists available to him during the commentary?
I think the last consensus was no decklists. Or at least the consensus amongst players playing at streamed events, so that getting streamed is not more of a potential competitive disadvantage. My emphasis would be on potential here, as i have no idea how likely or useful that would be.
But a text message from someone watching the stream to someone at the event "if you play Mischke later on, he is playing no Ghhhk in his dark, can you believe it?!" is certainly more helpful than "Mischke lost on stream with his dark to a beatdown, had no ghhhk. Probably was in his reserve all game, he had like 10 left when he offered the handshake. Or is he not playing one?!?"


I will be watching part of the stream live and look forward to it. Pointing out mistakes should be fine, if you elaborate on why you think its a misake, what should be the better alternative and under what circumstances the play might not be one. Like "This play looks weird to me, it only makes sense if he holds the new combo First Aid or something similar. Else he opens himself up to a major beatdown from Dr. Evazan or Dark Strike combo without need
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Re: arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

Post by WiseMarsellus »

in a swiss event it's so unlikely that a player will actually get info on their upcoming opponent because of the streaming. i think on balance it's better for the commentators to have decklists then. during match play though the risk is too great. we should even things up by letting both players see each other's decklists after one has been streamed earlier in a match-play event.

this would also have the benefit of stopping players from taking an unusually long break and watching the stream themselves. commentators don't even need decklists for that to be an issue.

but as is, we don't do that. so i agree that commentators should not reference the decklists during matchplay
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Re: arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

Post by alcuin18 »

What will the commentary be streamed on? Youtube, or?

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Re: arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

Post by gogolen »

alcuin18 wrote:What will the commentary be streamed on? Youtube, or?
The live stream will be on Twitch. The videos then get uploaded to youtube after the event is over.
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Re: arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

Post by alcuin18 »

gogolen wrote:
alcuin18 wrote:What will the commentary be streamed on? Youtube, or?
The live stream will be on Twitch. The videos then get uploaded to youtube after the event is over.
Ok, thanks. Looking forward to your next Youtube commentary. :-D :popcrn:

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Re: arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

Post by chriskelly »

arebelspy commentates? More like arebelspy dominates, amirite?

Nice job on the commentary, Joe. You did a great job.

And props to Tom K, and Throdo, and Kessling and Brian for the assistance and interviews!

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Re: arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

Post by shawnd1984 »

chriskelly wrote:arebelspy commentates? More like arebelspy dominates, amirite?

Nice job on the commentary, Joe. You did a great job.

And props to Tom K, and Throdo, and Kessling and Brian for the assistance and interviews!
Yeah I really hope the sea get uploaded to YouTube. Caught the last streamed game and Joe was engaging the whole time, which is especially impressive because he has been talking since like 1030. Drink some tea tonight!
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Re: arebelspy Commentates U.S. Nationals - Pre-Event Questions

Post by CRG »

chriskelly wrote:arebelspy commentates? More like arebelspy dominates, amirite?

Nice job on the commentary, Joe. You did a great job.

And props to Tom K, and Throdo, and Kessling and Brian for the assistance and interviews!
Yeah, I caught a little bit of Reid's HITCO v. Mischke's SYC and the commentary was really solid. Can't wait to catch the whole thing. Great job!
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