Twitch stream a joke?

[Harpster]

A

[Harpster]

I can understand how if you’ve volunteered allot of time my comments prolly pissed in some cheerios so I will delete my previous text. That being said you could use some lessons in being tactful.

We can share ideas we implemented in Endor which received decent results especially with Baity’s help.

Im out again great job Bastion wish I could have watched.

[allstarz97]

Like come the * on guys. Put some good players on stream. Bastian is not scooping on turn 2.

The irony here is that Bastian did in fact scoop a game on turn 2 yesterday.

Point Casey.

How did that happen?

Bastian was 6-0 I was 5-1. He mutters before the game, if you double Twix maybe I’ll concede... I draw both.. then Maybe turn 2 be said if you have clash maybe I’ll concede and we can have dinner... I showed him clash and he laughed and didn’t. Then he played some guys, my turn I canceled a barrier, clashed a Kylo.. and for 2/5 of the way through landos deploy cost before Bastian said let’s get food.

[arebelspy]

That's one of the great things about SOS. Totally valid.

It is a bummer when it happens on stream.

Sometimes blowouts happen.

[3MW0J8]

Thanks for the clarification JD. I know real players don't throw in the towel turn 2 even in today's hyper turbo meta.

This is yet another reason why it is foolish to dumpster dive down to lower tables in the middle of the event. By the time you get to the later games and you might finally decide to stream top tables, the games are academic. At 6-0 BW knows he's making day 3. So he lets a couple turns play out then decides to get dinner. I understand BW was streamed in game 1 but let's face it, nobody stateside was awake for that and the stream issues likely butchered any rewatchability so the sad reality is, we have the first ever 3-time champ and the first ever back-to-back champ, and we have no Swiss play from him to watch because we were given table 9 scoop instead.

Perhaps we need a PC-sponsored "producer" role who is in charge of making sure the stream is properly set up, and also in charge of selecting the ideal streaming matchup for each round so we don't end up with an essential game missed/hour of dead air. Also, (for US events cuz clearly Europe still doesn't have fiber), have we reached the capacity of being able to set up multiple featured tables?

[rhendon]

Sorry, but I am not just offended for myself. The amount of effort that went into this event is obscene. You don't have to * on anyone to make your points.

Apparently we do though because a simple “the stream quality’s isn't up to a Worlds standard” approach is being heard.

Wirfs puts in an insane amount of time getting all the required stuff to male Endor’s events stream worthy and it shows.

If people cant take criticism on the chin I would say do ever host anything.

Hey man, go * yourself. You have no basis for your first statement because no one * said that. Had they, we, the volunteers, would have heard it. What really pisses me off is the the lack of tact and understanding on the part of those offering "criticism." It's one thing to offer criticism and it's another to * on something. It's a shame that you can't see the difference.

The other thing is Endor's "stream" is the product of a lot of trial and error over the years. Baity gave us some EQ to purchase and thoughts on what to do. But Scott was the one who put the money up. Tom Kelly, myself, Queso, Dan, Scott, Gogolen, Shaw and many others have had a hand in streaming.

We technically streamed TMW back in I think 2015 at the bar. It had no commentary because no one had figured out how to do remote commentary at the time and we didn't have anyone onsite. But we still streamed. Later on we figured out how to add remote commentary. Then I think the first Endor is the one where we swapped to a nice overlay that we had to edit. I was running the event, editing the overlay, texting decklists to commentators (cuz we did that at the time too), updating stream, taking judge calls, etc. I think after that event, I specifically asked Scott to not put anyone else in that position if it can be prevented. It was way too much overload and I missed somethings. Maven came in and updated the site for me with pairings and results from his house for later rounds.

Point being. Not one event is done by one person. It is the product of a lot of people and a lot of time. No one could magically ship a 25mbps upload speed to Germany for this. It wasn't going to happen. The bar has been good to the Euro scene and that means far more than people that stayed home and didn't go can watch it in crisp clear picture. I believe Menzel said they were getting internet mainly for us and the ability to stream at that bar after he asked about it one year at Euros. Everyone that doesn't understand a bandwidth issue, should go look it up and see what it means. If you think we should abandon hosts that have put up with us for years, are great venues and do a lot for our communities in that local area to stream a clearer picture, then you should get your head out of your ass. That bar and the hotel for the MPC are staples now. There aren't many places that would tolerate how rowdy some people have gotten when drunk and let us back year after year.

[Harpster]

Sorry, but I am not just offended for myself. The amount of effort that went into this event is obscene. You don't have to * on anyone to make your points.

Apparently we do though because a simple “the stream quality’s isn't up to a Worlds standard” approach is being heard.

Wirfs puts in an insane amount of time getting all the required stuff to male Endor’s events stream worthy and it shows.

If people cant take criticism on the chin I would say do ever host anything.

Hey man, go * yourself. You have no basis for your first statement because no one * said that. Had they, we, the volunteers, would have heard it. What really pisses me off is the the lack of tact and understanding on the part of those offering "criticism." It's one thing to offer criticism and it's another to * on something. It's a shame that you can't see the difference.

Anyone who doesn't think there is bias in this game, please explain to me how long this is allowed to stay?

I realized that people were offended by my observation and so I deleted it but when I see this allowed to stay for so long it kind of makes me want to pour some salt on an old wound.

I would appreciate it.

[Remaker]

I was out of town this weekend so I wasn't able to catch the games, but did the on site folks happen to record the games as well? Wouldn't mind checking those out if they exist

[SolaGratia]

Thankful for the stream and the volunteers for the commentary. Leagues better than reading pairings and results then waiting for tournament reports. Also really appreciative of more podcast streams.

I really wished I could have attended this event. Euro world's or Euros is a goal of mine.

[Hunter]

i dont think its in bad form to request a stream where i can make out the cards lol.

i have said nothing bad about the commentators, my only issue is that the resolution is that of a camcorder from the 1980s. sorry if i thought the pc had better standards than this.

Be the change you want to see in the world.
Why dont you volunteer to td a world level tournament and have every single thing go off without a hitch? Or offer to help purchase the pc a new camera? Maybe you could pitch in and help fund a faster internet connection for majors.
Constructive criticism is welcome.
The last thing you need to do is spill vitriol and rude comments about something that other people worked hard to put on for you.

If constructive criticism is *actually* welcome, then thank teh_brainiac for his. He identified a problem, communicated the problem, and then things were made better. Sounds pretty constructive to me. I found the backlash against his posts to be pretty silly. Two different people labeling his posts as totally/completely "uncalled for." Nah man. What was "uncalled for" were the defensive overreactions to what he said.

It's Europe man they do what they want.

Just like the Americans all get listed in the pairings by their full names whereas the Euros are all the King, the Pirate, the Bird...

Oh those cheeky euros and their third world internet and hilarious alter egos!

Sure would hate to see even a little amount of professionalism at a worlds type event!

Then don't watch the stream. It's that easy. Go on with your life. Read a book.

If he'd wanted to be reading a book, he probably would have been reading a book. What he *wanted* to be doing was watching the games...but he found the stream to be unwatchable.

"Don't like our product? Then don't use/consume it!" is a strategy that any entity can use, when it comes to quality control, or user/customer feedback. It's not a GOOD strategy tho.

Multiple people said that the quality of the stream was better on Day 3 than Day 2. So anyone who enjoyed watching the stream on Day 3 probably owes a personal thank you to teh_brainiac. Because without the creation of this thread, I think it's unlikely that the table gets switched out, and that Wise/queso/etc. would have fiddled around with things to try and get improvements. Without him, the stream doesn't get upgraded from "pure *" to "still kinda bad, but not nearly AS bad."

Hope everyone had fun at the event!

[3MW0J8]

Thank you, teh_brainiac!

[Meto]

Thanks for the clarification JD. I know real players don't throw in the towel turn 2 even in today's hyper turbo meta.

This is yet another reason why it is foolish to dumpster dive down to lower tables in the middle of the event. By the time you get to the later games and you might finally decide to stream top tables, the games are academic. At 6-0 BW knows he's making day 3. So he lets a couple turns play out then decides to get dinner. I understand BW was streamed in game 1 but let's face it, nobody stateside was awake for that and the stream issues likely butchered any rewatchability so the sad reality is, we have the first ever 3-time champ and the first ever back-to-back champ, and we have no Swiss play from him to watch because we were given table 9 scoop instead.

Perhaps we need a PC-sponsored "producer" role who is in charge of making sure the stream is properly set up, and also in charge of selecting the ideal streaming matchup for each round so we don't end up with an essential game missed/hour of dead air. Also, (for US events cuz clearly Europe still doesn't have fiber), have we reached the capacity of being able to set up multiple featured tables?

Again. * you too, bro.

You know my name. We get along. I don't understand why you are out of your way to take shots at people.

[Meto]

I know I'm not good. I won't disagree with you. Justin and I talked before heading to that game and his match should have been the feature. I couldn't win that game. I figured it out faster than you because I was there.

[Calaglin]

i dont think its in bad form to request a stream where i can make out the cards lol.

i have said nothing bad about the commentators, my only issue is that the resolution is that of a camcorder from the 1980s. sorry if i thought the pc had better standards than this.

Be the change you want to see in the world.
Why dont you volunteer to td a world level tournament and have every single thing go off without a hitch? Or offer to help purchase the pc a new camera? Maybe you could pitch in and help fund a faster internet connection for majors.
Constructive criticism is welcome.
The last thing you need to do is spill vitriol and rude comments about something that other people worked hard to put on for you.

If constructive criticism is *actually* welcome, then thank teh_brainiac for his. He identified a problem, communicated the problem, and then things were made better. Sounds pretty constructive to me. I found the backlash against his posts to be pretty silly. Two different people labeling his posts as totally/completely "uncalled for." Nah man. What was "uncalled for" were the defensive overreactions to what he said.

It's Europe man they do what they want.

Just like the Americans all get listed in the pairings by their full names whereas the Euros are all the King, the Pirate, the Bird...

Oh those cheeky euros and their third world internet and hilarious alter egos!

Sure would hate to see even a little amount of professionalism at a worlds type event!

Then don't watch the stream. It's that easy. Go on with your life. Read a book.

If he'd wanted to be reading a book, he probably would have been reading a book. What he *wanted* to be doing was watching the games...but he found the stream to be unwatchable.

"Don't like our product? Then don't use/consume it!" is a strategy that any entity can use, when it comes to quality control, or user/customer feedback. It's not a GOOD strategy tho.

Multiple people said that the quality of the stream was better on Day 3 than Day 2. So anyone who enjoyed watching the stream on Day 3 probably owes a personal thank you to teh_brainiac. Because without the creation of this thread, I think it's unlikely that the table gets switched out, and that Wise/queso/etc. would have fiddled around with things to try and get improvements. Without him, the stream doesn't get upgraded from "pure *" to "still kinda bad, but not nearly AS bad."

Hope everyone had fun at the event!

You forget to mention we're not selling a product, we are trying to deliver a free service with material bought from our own money and wasting our own time instead of just having fun with our Euro buddies and the nice Americans who did come over to play.

And to be clear, NOTHING changed between day 2 and 3, we still had the same bad wifi. So he realized nothing. Calling his criticism constructive is just trolling. It's the first year we could stream the games, other years we just recorded them. We can go back to that, so everybody has good quality when watching the games.

What is annoying is that we know about the situation, but it's just a technical issue we can't do nothing about it. A bad wifi connection, it is what it is. Talking * about it or calling people out won't fix the wifi. It just divides the community. Acting like the euro community is incapable or unwilling to deliver a better stream by choice is just not nice.

The argument that we need some twitch streams to attract people to the game is valid. But starting a thread in this tone will chase them away if they come check the forums to find out what's going on with the community.

[WiseMarsellus]

i dont think its in bad form to request a stream where i can make out the cards lol.

i have said nothing bad about the commentators, my only issue is that the resolution is that of a camcorder from the 1980s. sorry if i thought the pc had better standards than this.

Be the change you want to see in the world.
Why dont you volunteer to td a world level tournament and have every single thing go off without a hitch? Or offer to help purchase the pc a new camera? Maybe you could pitch in and help fund a faster internet connection for majors.
Constructive criticism is welcome.
The last thing you need to do is spill vitriol and rude comments about something that other people worked hard to put on for you.

If constructive criticism is *actually* welcome, then thank teh_brainiac for his. He identified a problem, communicated the problem, and then things were made better. Sounds pretty constructive to me. I found the backlash against his posts to be pretty silly. Two different people labeling his posts as totally/completely "uncalled for." Nah man. What was "uncalled for" were the defensive overreactions to what he said.

It's Europe man they do what they want.

Just like the Americans all get listed in the pairings by their full names whereas the Euros are all the King, the Pirate, the Bird...

Oh those cheeky euros and their third world internet and hilarious alter egos!

Sure would hate to see even a little amount of professionalism at a worlds type event!

Then don't watch the stream. It's that easy. Go on with your life. Read a book.

If he'd wanted to be reading a book, he probably would have been reading a book. What he *wanted* to be doing was watching the games...but he found the stream to be unwatchable.

"Don't like our product? Then don't use/consume it!" is a strategy that any entity can use, when it comes to quality control, or user/customer feedback. It's not a GOOD strategy tho.

Multiple people said that the quality of the stream was better on Day 3 than Day 2. So anyone who enjoyed watching the stream on Day 3 probably owes a personal thank you to teh_brainiac. Because without the creation of this thread, I think it's unlikely that the table gets switched out, and that Wise/queso/etc. would have fiddled around with things to try and get improvements. Without him, the stream doesn't get upgraded from "pure *" to "still kinda bad, but not nearly AS bad."

Hope everyone had fun at the event!

You forget to mention we're not selling a product, we are trying to deliver a free service with material bought from our own money and wasting our own time instead of just having fun with our Euro buddies and the nice Americans who did come over to play.

And to be clear, NOTHING changed between day 2 and 3, we still had the same bad wifi. So he realized nothing. Calling his criticism constructive is just trolling. It's the first year we could stream the games, other years we just recorded them. We can go back to that, so everybody has good quality when watching the games.

What is annoying is that we know about the situation, but it's just a technical issue we can't do nothing about it. A bad wifi connection, it is what it is. Talking * about it or calling people out won't fix the wifi. It just divides the community. Acting like the euro community is incapable or unwilling to deliver a better stream by choice is just not nice.

The argument that we need some twitch streams to attract people to the game is valid. But starting a thread in this tone will chase them away if they come check the forums to find out what's going on with the community.

yes

[ketwol]

As Cedric said. Everyone involved with the streaming did an amazing job given the circumstances. Kudos to all of you.

@Tom: hope you are feeling better today. Have a safe trip home man!

[WiseMarsellus]

thanks quirin was a pleasure. i appear to be on schedule

[rhendon]

If he'd wanted to be reading a book, he probably would have been reading a book. What he *wanted* to be doing was watching the games...but he found the stream to be unwatchable.

"Don't like our product? Then don't use/consume it!" is a strategy that any entity can use, when it comes to quality control, or user/customer feedback. It's not a GOOD strategy tho.

Multiple people said that the quality of the stream was better on Day 3 than Day 2. So anyone who enjoyed watching the stream on Day 3 probably owes a personal thank you to teh_brainiac. Because without the creation of this thread, I think it's unlikely that the table gets switched out, and that Wise/queso/etc. would have fiddled around with things to try and get improvements. Without him, the stream doesn't get upgraded from "pure *" to "still kinda bad, but not nearly AS bad."

Hope everyone had fun at the event!

Actually I was talking to Queso about it ahead of this post and I'm sure Tom Kelly and others on site were thinking of ways to improve it. Because that is what people do who work on this. They are always thinking of ways to do better with less. Its been going on for 3+ years.

There is a reason Magic has stopped streaming at a lot of their events, and even outsourced it for the ones they still stream. It is expensive. It is time consuming. It takes a lot of work from a lot of people. It is heavily reliant on things outside your control and you'll get blamed for them.

A 5mbps will do 720p AT THE MOST. That is the bare requirement to get there. I'd wager that the computer that was hooked up to camera was getting 2mpbs maybe 3. I wasn't there, and it isn't something easily explained to people who don't know much about computers, but the router was probably limiting. There were likely walls and I don't know Euro building codes, but they may have things to help interfere with the wifi signal just a bit. I doubt they had it set up for 5ghz Wifi and 2.4ghz Wifi. It was probably combining them, which left it on the computer to figure out which to be on. Speaking from years of personal experience, the computer almost always chooses the 2.4 because it is a more reliable signal but slower. This would have likely cut upload speeds to 1.5 mbps.

So where is the constructive criticism to be had on this? There were hardcore limitations that the PC had to deal with. There wasn't going to be much to be done by posting anything during the event calling them out. We had Queso, Dan, Turner and Eric all wake up during weird hours and change their own schedules to bring us coverage. We had players who took time out of hanging out, testing, whatever to help get things set up at the venue. Any sort of criticism is going to likely trigger a defense mech in them. It is human nature, especially on these boards where all people do is complain about things. News flash complaints are not constructive criticism.

Lastly on his post, his snarky comment at the end is not constructive. It is likely to lead to pissing people off. If people were actually capable of providing constructive criticism here, then they would leave the snarkiness out and move on.

It seems like every year, people that don't really travel always complain about streaming and how the event didn't meet their lofty standards from afar. And every year we have to explain that the majority of the money is spent to make sure the people that spent hundreds, or in some cases thousands, of dollars had a great time. Because if people don't enjoy going, then the events stop when people stop spending that money. So it seems kind of stupid when we have a limited budget on spending for an event to take away from the people attending and put it towards people not attending.

And I've already stated why moving from the bar for host of worlds was not going to happen.

Also, this topic and most of these posts in here are the reasons why volunteers quit or advocates leave. They are tired of the thankless * from so many people that just think they are entitled to things because they * exist. News flash you are not entitled to * from the PC. Every advocate and volunteer works so * hard and people just don't see it. They want x or y and they want it now.

So if this board was capable of constructive criticism, then yes I think people would be all for people giving it. But it is never that case on these boards. You know this. Its been like this since the forums went up. But it isn't and snarky comments and calling out of people who busted their ass for people who are spending 0 on the event is not good for the game.

[rhendon]

thanks quirin was a pleasure. i appear to be on schedule

Also dude check all your * before you get on a train...

I might have a book you left somewhere once before you got a train still.

[Hayes]

The streaming capabilities are severly limited by german law. I'll provide a more comprehensive answer explaining this when i return to the states, but in the interim feel free to google it.

The venue is an absolutely amazing place to host events. Like 1474837472594068 times better than a random hotel conference room. That it happens to be in germany and thus makes streaming a challenge is unfortunate; but streaming is most definitely not the primary factor in deciding a location (nor should it be).

I can't stand the negativity in this thread. Next time try showing up.