Twitch stream a joke?

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Re: Twitch stream a joke?

Post by arebelspy »

Hayes wrote:I can't stand the negativity in this thread. Next time try showing up.
To be fair, I did show up and still couldn't make out any of the featured matches.

They were usually all the way across the room with a bunch of people's stupid faces in the way!

Fix it PC!!!



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Re: Twitch stream a joke?

Post by allstarz97 »

The feedback isn’t that offensive to be honest, but when it’s read under the TITLE of the post it’s read with a lot of negativity, entitlement and just overall has a bad vibe to it. I think we can all agree there are ways to make streaming better- from a process of how to pick games to stream that works for everyone’s tastes and interests, to the tech issues. The only thing that doesn’t need improvement is the coverage people, you guys are awesome!

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Re: Twitch stream a joke?

Post by DutchVader »

rhendon wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 2:51 am
Hunter wrote:
September 22nd, 2019, 10:03 pm

If he'd wanted to be reading a book, he probably would have been reading a book. What he *wanted* to be doing was watching the games...but he found the stream to be unwatchable.

"Don't like our product? Then don't use/consume it!" is a strategy that any entity can use, when it comes to quality control, or user/customer feedback. It's not a GOOD strategy tho.

Multiple people said that the quality of the stream was better on Day 3 than Day 2. So anyone who enjoyed watching the stream on Day 3 probably owes a personal thank you to teh_brainiac. Because without the creation of this thread, I think it's unlikely that the table gets switched out, and that Wise/queso/etc. would have fiddled around with things to try and get improvements. Without him, the stream doesn't get upgraded from "pure *" to "still kinda bad, but not nearly AS bad."

Hope everyone had fun at the event!
Actually I was talking to Queso about it ahead of this post and I'm sure Tom Kelly and others on site were thinking of ways to improve it. Because that is what people do who work on this. They are always thinking of ways to do better with less. Its been going on for 3+ years.

There is a reason Magic has stopped streaming at a lot of their events, and even outsourced it for the ones they still stream. It is expensive. It is time consuming. It takes a lot of work from a lot of people. It is heavily reliant on things outside your control and you'll get blamed for them.

A 5mbps will do 720p AT THE MOST. That is the bare requirement to get there. I'd wager that the computer that was hooked up to camera was getting 2mpbs maybe 3. I wasn't there, and it isn't something easily explained to people who don't know much about computers, but the router was probably limiting. There were likely walls and I don't know Euro building codes, but they may have things to help interfere with the wifi signal just a bit. I doubt they had it set up for 5ghz Wifi and 2.4ghz Wifi. It was probably combining them, which left it on the computer to figure out which to be on. Speaking from years of personal experience, the computer almost always chooses the 2.4 because it is a more reliable signal but slower. This would have likely cut upload speeds to 1.5 mbps.

So where is the constructive criticism to be had on this? There were hardcore limitations that the PC had to deal with. There wasn't going to be much to be done by posting anything during the event calling them out. We had Queso, Dan, Turner and Eric all wake up during weird hours and change their own schedules to bring us coverage. We had players who took time out of hanging out, testing, whatever to help get things set up at the venue. Any sort of criticism is going to likely trigger a defense mech in them. It is human nature, especially on these boards where all people do is complain about things. News flash complaints are not constructive criticism.

Lastly on his post, his snarky comment at the end is not constructive. It is likely to lead to pissing people off. If people were actually capable of providing constructive criticism here, then they would leave the snarkiness out and move on.

It seems like every year, people that don't really travel always complain about streaming and how the event didn't meet their lofty standards from afar. And every year we have to explain that the majority of the money is spent to make sure the people that spent hundreds, or in some cases thousands, of dollars had a great time. Because if people don't enjoy going, then the events stop when people stop spending that money. So it seems kind of stupid when we have a limited budget on spending for an event to take away from the people attending and put it towards people not attending.

And I've already stated why moving from the bar for host of worlds was not going to happen.

Also, this topic and most of these posts in here are the reasons why volunteers quit or advocates leave. They are tired of the thankless * from so many people that just think they are entitled to things because they * exist. News flash you are not entitled to * from the PC. Every advocate and volunteer works so * hard and people just don't see it. They want x or y and they want it now.

So if this board was capable of constructive criticism, then yes I think people would be all for people giving it. But it is never that case on these boards. You know this. Its been like this since the forums went up. But it isn't and snarky comments and calling out of people who busted their ass for people who are spending 0 on the event is not good for the game.
x2

@teh_brainiac, @3MW0J8, @Hunter: Where is the 'constructive criticism' in statements like 'Twitch stream a joke? (thread title)' and 'dumpster diving' (selection of games to stream)?

I was asked Friday night to bring the camera equipment I bought for the European Championship earlier this year, as they had problems with the equipment on location. Therefore, we didn't have time to do some real testing with the last-minute alternate set-up.

As Rhendon said, snarky posts like the ones mentioned are the reasons why volunteers quit or advocates leave. I don't know if I will even bother again...

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Re: Twitch stream a joke?

Post by Darth_Link »

Calling the comments constructive criticism is an insult to the word constructive. The * posted in this thread represents everything that is wrong with this community (entitlement, people acting like * on the forums but not in person, volunteers spending hours and hours and hours to provide content and entertainment yet being crapped on etc). Everything that actually took place in Bochum this weekend represents everything that is right with this community (friendship, the physical card game, beers, etc).

I was mad at first, but I realized you are just sad. Sad humans who couldn't make it Euro Worlds. Sad humans who have nothing better to do than complain about a free video being broadcast. Sad humans cause you are keyboard warriors.

To the volunteers (cedrik, tom k, queso, stefan etc etc) - * the 3-4 haters. The 100+ other players involved appreciate your work, and I think their opinions should win out.
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Re: Twitch stream a joke?

Post by JarJarDrinks »

Calaglin wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 2:40 am
What is annoying is that we know about the situation, but it's just a technical issue we can't do nothing about it.
Then why the stark difference between day 2 and day 3? SOMETHING was apparently done about it.



Also I think that in 2019, good wifi capability needs to be on the checklist when choosing a venue for a major.
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Re: Twitch stream a joke?

Post by allstarz97 »

Darth_Link wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 8:30 am

I was mad at first, but I realized you are just sad. Sad humans who couldn't make it Euro Worlds. Sad humans who have nothing better to do than complain about a free video being broadcast. Sad humans cause you are keyboard warriors.

To the volunteers (cedrik, tom k, queso, stefan etc etc) - * the 3-4 haters. The 100+ other players involved appreciate your work, and I think their opinions should win out.
Love it. Aggressive. You’ve been hanging out with us too much #ktod #loyalty.

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Re: Twitch stream a joke?

Post by TheDutchMike »

What happens in Europe, stays in Europe! :lol:
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Re: Twitch stream a joke?

Post by darkjediknight11 »

JarJarDrinks wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 8:33 am
Calaglin wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 2:40 am
What is annoying is that we know about the situation, but it's just a technical issue we can't do nothing about it.
Then why the stark difference between day 2 and day 3? SOMETHING was apparently done about it.
and you think jake being a jerk about it is what led everyone else to see the stream quality issues? well then gee golly, thanks jake we had no idea.

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Re: Twitch stream a joke?

Post by JarJarDrinks »

darkjediknight11 wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 9:00 am
JarJarDrinks wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 8:33 am
Calaglin wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 2:40 am
What is annoying is that we know about the situation, but it's just a technical issue we can't do nothing about it.
Then why the stark difference between day 2 and day 3? SOMETHING was apparently done about it.
and you think jake being a jerk about it is what led everyone else to see the stream quality issues? well then gee golly, thanks jake we had no idea.

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huh, who tf is jake? Just saying that the statement "we can't do nothing about it" smells a little like straight *.
dx_37 wrote:
October 2nd, 2019, 12:12 pm
I would be all for a reset if I get to be on the reset team
"Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking."
- Bill Maher

"How you play the game is important. But for me, it's about if you win or lose."
- Derek Jeter

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Re: Twitch stream a joke?

Post by JarJarDrinks »

"Feel free to criticize. Just make sure you do it nicely"

- people ITT complaining about entitlement
dx_37 wrote:
October 2nd, 2019, 12:12 pm
I would be all for a reset if I get to be on the reset team
"Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking."
- Bill Maher

"How you play the game is important. But for me, it's about if you win or lose."
- Derek Jeter

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Re: Twitch stream a joke?

Post by FlorisV »

Constructive criticism, how it could have been done, at the risk of being patronizing:

Topic Twitch stream: low resolution

"Much appreciate the effort you guys are putting into making a live stream work, with commentary to boot. I watched for a bit but the resolution was rather low and I had serious difficulty identifying the cards. Is this a known problem, what could cause it and is there any chance the quality could be improved? Thanks!

Kind regards,

sw ccg fan"


Talking about strategy....or should I rather say tact...this sort of approach would have more chance of a volunteer being willing to help you than calling their work a joke.

Feel like kicking in an open door here...the backlash wasn't about the criticism, it's about how poorly it was expressed. Generally this is something that could still be improved on the forums and I hope for more of a change in tone overall. But considering what I've seen in the past on these forums it has been a lot worse and like Emil mentions it's really only a few guys being rude. Also expectations from volunteers can still be too high sometimes (we are by definition NOT professional). At the same time i'd recommend volunteers to just keep doing the great work they're doing, be a bit more thick skinned but still have an ear out to criticism. As graphic design team member myself I know there's always someone going to be unhappy about a new picture and that's OK. It's only a problem if a lot of guys are unhappy about it and even then, the only question I find interesting is on the practical side: can it be improved? OK, then I'll do what I can.

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Re: Twitch stream a joke?

Post by spideyguy0 »

JarJarDrinks wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 8:33 am
Calaglin wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 2:40 am
What is annoying is that we know about the situation, but it's just a technical issue we can't do nothing about it.
Then why the stark difference between day 2 and day 3? SOMETHING was apparently done about it.



Also I think that in 2019, good wifi capability needs to be on the checklist when choosing a venue for a major.
Nothing was done between day 2 and day 3. For whatever reason, the signal was able to get out clearer on Sunday.

As far as the venue is concerned, I’ve played this game at tournaments for 14 years, and this is by far the best venue I have ever played at. Anyone on the streaming subforum can tell you that nobody cares about using streaming to legitimize the game as much as I do (I’m the reason we even have a dedicated stream team with a subforum) but playing at that venue should absolutely take priority. For those of you who’ve never been, there’s nothing I can say that could do it justice (unless Bibi takes me up on my invite to the MPC)
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Re: Twitch stream a joke?

Post by darkjediknight11 »

JarJarDrinks wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 9:06 am
darkjediknight11 wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 9:00 am
JarJarDrinks wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 8:33 am
Calaglin wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 2:40 am
What is annoying is that we know about the situation, but it's just a technical issue we can't do nothing about it.
Then why the stark difference between day 2 and day 3? SOMETHING was apparently done about it.
and you think jake being a jerk about it is what led everyone else to see the stream quality issues? well then gee golly, thanks jake we had no idea.

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huh, who tf is jake? Just saying that the statement "we can't do nothing about it" smells a little like straight *.
the OP, obviously.

do you really not understand the term constructive criticism?
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Re: Twitch stream a joke?

Post by darkjediknight11 »

spideyguy0 wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 9:09 am
Nothing was done between day 2 and day 3. For whatever reason, the signal was able to get out clearer on Sunday.
i don't think that's true. from what i heard tom got up early and worked with jerry and others to tweak settings to get things better
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Re: Twitch stream a joke?

Post by tge.damen »

spideyguy0 wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 9:09 am

As far as the venue is concerned, I’ve played this game at tournaments for 14 years, and this is by far the best venue I have ever played at. Anyone on the streaming subforum can tell you that nobody cares about using streaming to legitimize the game as much as I do (I’m the reason we even have a dedicated stream team with a subforum) but playing at that venue should absolutely take priority. For those of you who’ve never been, there’s nothing I can say that could do it justice (unless Bibi takes me up on my invite to the MPC)
This exactly. The venue and its staff are part of our swccg community.

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Re: Twitch stream a joke?

Post by Wokling »

allstarz97 wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 3:09 am
The feedback isn’t that offensive to be honest, but when it’s read under the TITLE of the post it’s read with a lot of negativity, entitlement and just overall has a bad vibe to it. I think we can all agree there are ways to make streaming better- from a process of how to pick games to stream that works for everyone’s tastes and interests, to the tech issues. The only thing that doesn’t need improvement is the coverage people, you guys are awesome!
This exactly. Except the last bit. Commentating was harder than I thought. I'm confident that I'd be better at it the next time around.
FlorisV wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 9:08 am
Feel like kicking in an open door here...the backlash wasn't about the criticism, it's about how poorly it was expressed.
Everything else Floris wrote is spot on as well.

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Re: Twitch stream a joke?

Post by mrfahrenheit7 »

darkjediknight11 wrote:
spideyguy0 wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 9:09 am
Nothing was done between day 2 and day 3. For whatever reason, the signal was able to get out clearer on Sunday.
i don't think that's true. from what i heard tom got up early and worked with jerry and others to tweak settings to get things better
2-3 hours sunday morning (3am local time for queso and mrfahrenheit) were spent fiddling with the stream to try to improve quality.
We thought the endeavors were largely in vain. As we changed settings, resolution improved but we could see massive sections of dropped frames and terrible lag.
After giving up and deciding to broadcast the exact same way as we did on Saturday, we went live to the nice surprise of a bit better quality resolution.
As far as I know this delayed tournament start by at least an hour.
To my knowledge, there were no changes made to our broadcast methods or settings between Saturday and Sunday, but we got a consistently better signal on sunday which resulted in more clarity.

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Re: Twitch stream a joke?

Post by mrfahrenheit7 »


Wokling wrote:
allstarz97 wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 3:09 am
The feedback isn’t that offensive to be honest, but when it’s read under the TITLE of the post it’s read with a lot of negativity, entitlement and just overall has a bad vibe to it. I think we can all agree there are ways to make streaming better- from a process of how to pick games to stream that works for everyone’s tastes and interests, to the tech issues. The only thing that doesn’t need improvement is the coverage people, you guys are awesome!
This exactly. Except the last bit. Commentating was harder than I thought. I'm confident that I'd be better at it the next time around.
FlorisV wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 9:08 am
Feel like kicking in an open door here...the backlash wasn't about the criticism, it's about how poorly it was expressed.
Everything else Floris wrote is spot on as well.
I second Wokling. Commentary was harder than I expected. I will be more prepared to vamp and fill dead air next time.
I love this game and this community, even if we could use a kumbaya moment every once in a while.

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Hunter wrote:Someone just outhookied thehooky.
TacoBill wrote:Your game plan is to lose the AC? Seems questionable

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Re: Twitch stream a joke?

Post by Harpster »

Just wanted to reinforce the fact that I genuinely appreciate all the volunteers who put this all together.

I can see how my posts were taken. Often times Im typing on my phone with little time and that compounded by my patience never equals a great outcome. If you add that on top of my internet in the woods plus the overseas stream what I saw from my end wasn’t recognizable.

As a spectator I expect nothing, as a volunteer and avid advocate for this community I wish I would have not posted in the moment of my frustration.

In the end I have rebuked my posts and I look forward to hanging with my overseas comrades at some point.

Harpster-

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Re: Twitch stream a joke?

Post by quesosauce37 »

i too apologize if i snarked off too much, but when you take time off work, change your entire sleeping schedule, and generally flip your life upsidedown for a couple days to volunteer for something and people take a * all over it for mostly things you have NO CONTROL over, tends to piss me off

thanks everyone for your kind words, we did the best we could with what we had. I also want to thank Eric Hunter, Mike Turner, Dan Tartagone and Mike Gemme for their help this weekend. As well as Tamas and Casey, Tom Kelly and Angelo, anyone who helped out in Europe to bring the stream to us, it was really quite fun to be a part of the first ever live stream that we've done from Europe, and i assure everyone that next time we will get better!
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