Feebback for the Outrider Cup

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Death Star
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Feebback for the Outrider Cup

Post by Death Star »

So both Joe and me talked about this on holotheatre after the tournament, but in separate weeks and not with each other. And apart from that it was pretty quiet. I wanted to do this a lot of times since then, but never found the time. So now I finally want to write it down.
Obviously Player of the Year standings will have much fewer input this year and might not be the best measure to form the teams, especially for the european side. But in general it was a fun event and I hope we do it again. With the following caveats though:

- The 2 rounds felt very disjointed. While we were able to eventually gather everyone on slack and talk some strategy, especially in the second round this was harder to do. There was the holiday season where people were busy IRL, especially Quirin who was on vacation. Especially because of the new set in between, it felt like 2 completely different tournaments and not 2 rounds of the same tournament.

- The format benefits from a lot of talking strategy or, more generally, involvement into gemp and slack. We were on very different levels within our team, not sure how it was for the american team. We had players that were active on slack and gemp all the time and players that would need days to answer questions on slack. And while there is nothing wrong with more involvement meaning better results, I think the tournament should not require a very high amount of involvement.

- I loved the 6 different decks per side requirement. That was definitely the best thing about the tournament. Also fixing the decklists in advance was a good idea and at least prevented even more needed involvement.

- Not a fan of matchplay. I think that in the first round, we were quite succesful putting our opponents on specific decks and selecting the correct decks against them. Given our success in that area, I was a bit miffed we only got a 3-3. But because of matchplay, we could for example not have Tom Damen play Diplo, the deck he is most proficient with. We thought the US would easily put him on that and select a favorable matchup against Diplo. Obviously you need to have matchplay in a KO system like top 8 but I am a big fan of at least mixing it up somewhat like we do it in top 8 of worlds and continentals now. In the past, the MPC was the only pure matchplay format. Now the finals tournament of the OCS is another straight matchplay format. The top 16 of Texas Mini Worlds will be straight matchplay format. I would welcome this cup not being another matchplay format.

- Related to matchplay and the 2 rounds, I think picking the matchups in the second round is a very big advantage. You can try to create lopsided matchups when you are up 4-2 or competitive matchups across the board when you are down 2-4 and need to. The first round ending 3-3 was good for the overall tournament in hindsight, but that might not happen again.




In conclusion, my proposal for the next Outrider Cup would be this:
- Make it only 1 round.
- Both teams send in a list of their players in advance with the fixed order of players and which decks everyone is playing (has to be 6 different objectives/starting locations per side).
- Players 1 on both lists then pair up, players 2 on both lists etc.
- TD randomly decides on 3 players per team that either A) have to start with LS or DS or B) can choose which side to play first
- Should the round end 3-3, both teams determine one of their players (does not have to be the captain) and those square off in match play. Any decks available, both lists to be handed in in advance, randomly determined who A) has to play LS/DS first or B) can choose which side to play first.


Decklists will be in their purest form, without any influence from match play opponent. So might be most interesting for spectators.
Players can play the decks they are most comfortable and proficient with. Should also be more interesting for spectators.

What are other peoples thoughts, especially from those involved?
Last edited by Death Star on July 31st, 2020, 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Feebback for the Outrider Cup

Post by chriskelly »

- I'll defer to you and Joe as far as lining up the matches since that burden fell on you two. However I liked the strategy of it all and in our discussions/planning with Joe, I thought it made it interesting. It also played a big factor in who was playing what deck.

- I liked that it was 2 rounds since it made the pairings equal.

- At first I hated the "six different deck types" thing, but as we got into the strategy of it, I liked it. We each figured out our decks and had decent talking points and strategy with one another when discussing decks we weren't familiar with playing. It seems like nowadays we all have our own little playtest groups, so it was a cool feeling to have Joe Olson, Mischke, Desai, Wirfs, and Greg Shaw be my playtest group for an event. It felt like I was at the All-Star game and all these superstars who I normally compete against were now working with me. That was a really cool feeling and I was really proud to be part of the team.

- The "two different metas" thing was a bit wonky, but I don't know if there was a good solution because the set/erratas came out between the rounds. I don't know if this was good or bad. I'm sure if someone smarter than me broke it down, it gave someone some sort of advantage.

- I liked it being match play since the finals of majors are decided that way and this was meant to be the finals for the best of the best.

- I thought the hype and coverage of it all was great, but the prize structure meh. I don't even mean cash or actual prizes, but just a trinket or memento. Each team should have gotten some AI or pin or deck box sticker or something just for pride. Maybe if there was an AI for it and everyone in the community who watched a few games on twitch got one and then players from each team got a gold/silver border one, that would be a cool way to involve the whole community. Instead were there even any prizes? I was super proud to be part of Team USA so some memento from the event would have been nice to be able to bring to events and share stories with. And if I got paired up against Joe or Desai or someone from Team USA before the game starts it'd be cool to show each other our Outrider swag from when we were teammates before we started our competitive game at the event.

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Re: Feebback for the Outrider Cup

Post by Silverglen »

In the golf Ryder cup the singles match play format is as Bastian describes. Each captain orders his team and then they play off. I like the one round format proposal as it’s sharp and decisive and probably offers most impact for viewers. I also like the restrictions on decks.

I would have loved more team talk - but that is just how it happened on our team. I would hope for the next time we had more detailed conversations.

I like Chris’s suggestions of a token for participation and something for active spectators.

And clearly most of all a European win next time!
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Re: Feebback for the Outrider Cup

Post by TacoBill »

Not directly related, but this seems like a great year to end the PotY season after Worlds.
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Re: Feebback for the Outrider Cup

Post by gogolen »

TacoBill wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 4:08 pm
Not directly related, but this seems like a great year to end the PotY season after Worlds.
It always ends after worlds. I think you mean to switch it to calendar year?
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Re: Feebback for the Outrider Cup

Post by allstarz97 »

Prizes would have been nice.

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Re: Feebback for the Outrider Cup

Post by gogolen »

There still will be prizes for this. It was originally announced as travel vouchers which people did not seem excited about, but an alternative prize was never decided on so things just fizzled.

If the winning team can agree on something in the $50 range, let me know
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Re: Feebback for the Outrider Cup

Post by arebelspy »

I haven't had time to reply to the overall thread,but re: the prize thing, we can take it to a private convo and figure it out. It's a pretty small thing in a very cool event. :)

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Re: Feebback for the Outrider Cup

Post by arebelspy »

I'd also love to hear from anyone who observed the event, if you have any thoughts as an observer or things you thought would be better.

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Re: Feebback for the Outrider Cup

Post by TacoBill »

gogolen wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 5:21 pm
TacoBill wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 4:08 pm
Not directly related, but this seems like a great year to end the PotY season after Worlds.
It always ends after worlds. I think you mean to switch it to calendar year?
Yes
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Definitely on the Mount Rushmore of SWCCG players to live in Hawaii
Cam Solusar wrote:What TacoBill proposes is ideal IMO.

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