Can I make a suggestion

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Silverglen
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Can I make a suggestion

Post by Silverglen »

Whilst I am aware this event is still some time away, and may proceed as planned, or in some guise. However my suggestion is that if there is any chance it will not happen as ‘normal’ that we play an MPC style online event instead/as well as.

If it does go ahead I am 99% confident that I wouldn’t be able to attend because of this situ; but thought I’d start a conversation.


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Re: Can I make a suggestion

Post by Madmanwithabox »

Given that it’s not actually that far off, I second this.
I’d like to go, but the current situation is not filling me with confidence.
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Re: Can I make a suggestion

Post by Death Star »

It would be in 10 weeks. That is both not too far away and a Corona eternity.
According to the latest regulations that came into effect on the 1st of july, we could not hold a tournament in Bochum, even while wearing masks and leaving our contact Information for tracking.
We are in the fortunate situation, as far as I know, that we do not have to pay any fees for cancelling the event on short notice. So we can wait a bit more. But I too do assume this will not take place this year.
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Re: Can I make a suggestion

Post by Silverglen »

Based on your response Bastian is there any motivation to have an online event should the IRL not be possible?
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Re: Can I make a suggestion

Post by Death Star »

Silverglen wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 4:54 am
Based on your response Bastian is there any motivation to have an online event should the IRL not be possible?
I don’t need a special online event and I am not a fan of matchplay. But you know me, if there was an event I would prolly play.
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Re: Can I make a suggestion

Post by quickdraw3457 »

I'd like to ask you guys about geographic events played on gemp... How do you feel about having "Euros" held on gemp, essentially opening it up to anyone in the world? I don't see a good way of enforcing geographic restrictions for an online event, which maybe is OK. But I'd like to get more opinions on it.

Personally I think events that are moved online should lose any geographic tag unless very special circumstances are created (such as a northern California league that wanted their league events online exclusive to the league members).
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Re: Can I make a suggestion

Post by Sagnet »

quickdraw3457 wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 6:24 am
I'd like to ask you guys about geographic events played on gemp... How do you feel about having "Euros" held on gemp, essentially opening it up to anyone in the world? I don't see a good way of enforcing geographic restrictions for an online event, which maybe is OK. But I'd like to get more opinions on it.

Personally I think events that are moved online should lose any geographic tag unless very special circumstances are created (such as a northern California league that wanted their league events online exclusive to the league members).
I would welcome an online Euros tournament. With the time schedule set to match the European time zone.

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Re: Can I make a suggestion

Post by quickdraw3457 »

Sagnet wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 6:59 am
quickdraw3457 wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 6:24 am
I'd like to ask you guys about geographic events played on gemp... How do you feel about having "Euros" held on gemp, essentially opening it up to anyone in the world? I don't see a good way of enforcing geographic restrictions for an online event, which maybe is OK. But I'd like to get more opinions on it.

Personally I think events that are moved online should lose any geographic tag unless very special circumstances are created (such as a northern California league that wanted their league events online exclusive to the league members).
I would welcome an online Euros tournament. With the time schedule set to match the European time zone.
Can you clarify? Do you want it exclusive for Europeans, and if so how would you enforce? Or is the time schedule set up to de facto limit it to Europeans?
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Re: Can I make a suggestion

Post by Death Star »

quickdraw3457 wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 7:13 am
Do you want it exclusive for Europeans, and if so how would you enforce? Or is the time schedule set up to de facto limit it to Europeans?
I can't speak for Sagnet obviously. In my eyes, if an east coast american would be willing to get up at 5am to play in such an event, they should be able to. Why not. Or a west coaster at 2am. We would not set up our schedule TO limit it to europeans, but we would set it up to be best for europeans and excluding US players would likely be a side effect of that. Just like round 2 of the MPC was scheduled to go on until about 3 or 4am mainland european time which certainly was a factor in why only 2 europeans joined in.

Nonetheless I am hesitant to call something like this "the european championship,". In my eyes, if we cannot do a tournament in Bochum this year, there should be no european championship this year. Same for worlds.
We can do a gemp tournament of some sorts if enough people want it, but its not gonna be the same by a mile.
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Re: Can I make a suggestion

Post by Hayes »

Concur w/ Bastian.

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Re: Can I make a suggestion

Post by Madmanwithabox »

As this situation may be long term, trying to hold online tournaments that feel as close to the real thing as possible might be the way forward for now.
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Re: Can I make a suggestion

Post by Silverglen »

Hence my proposal for a Euro mpc instead; open to anyone who wants to play on a European timeline
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Re: Can I make a suggestion

Post by stealtheblind »

Death Star wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 8:09 am
quickdraw3457 wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 7:13 am
Do you want it exclusive for Europeans, and if so how would you enforce? Or is the time schedule set up to de facto limit it to Europeans?
I can't speak for Sagnet obviously. In my eyes, if an east coast american would be willing to get up at 5am to play in such an event, they should be able to. Why not. Or a west coaster at 2am. We would not set up our schedule TO limit it to europeans, but we would set it up to be best for europeans and excluding US players would likely be a side effect of that. Just like round 2 of the MPC was scheduled to go on until about 3 or 4am mainland european time which certainly was a factor in why only 2 europeans joined in.

Nonetheless I am hesitant to call something like this "the european championship,". In my eyes, if we cannot do a tournament in Bochum this year, there should be no european championship this year. Same for worlds.
We can do a gemp tournament of some sorts if enough people want it, but its not gonna be the same by a mile.
Agree with all of this with regard to logistics. I do take issue with the "it's not really euros" or "its not really worlds" arguments. If we can't play IRL this year, then it would be an utter shame to fail to utilize Gemp to hold replacement events for majors. And the winners of those events should be considered 2020 major champions for their accomplishments. It's different than what we're used to, but so was switching from top 12 swiss to top 8 matchplay. Formats evolve, people adapt.

Besides, I seem to recall some dude winning the "fake" worlds event in 2001 after the real one was canceled, and 99.9% of folks consider him the champ without giving it a second thought! :)
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Re: Can I make a suggestion

Post by Sagnet »

Death Star wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 8:09 am
quickdraw3457 wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 7:13 am
Do you want it exclusive for Europeans, and if so how would you enforce? Or is the time schedule set up to de facto limit it to Europeans?
I can't speak for Sagnet obviously. In my eyes, if an east coast american would be willing to get up at 5am to play in such an event, they should be able to. Why not. Or a west coaster at 2am. We would not set up our schedule TO limit it to europeans, but we would set it up to be best for europeans and excluding US players would likely be a side effect of that. Just like round 2 of the MPC was scheduled to go on until about 3 or 4am mainland european time which certainly was a factor in why only 2 europeans joined in.
Yeah, that was what I was thinking. No restrictions regarding who can play, but the time frame will be set to accommodate the European continent.

Regarding the official status of the tournament, why not call it the Online Europeans? Maybe in future years there can be both each year. One online tournament for players who can’t or won’t travel, and one physical, with the latter being the more prestigious one, of course.

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Re: Can I make a suggestion

Post by Batmouse »

Sagnet wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 11:57 am
Death Star wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 8:09 am
quickdraw3457 wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 7:13 am
Do you want it exclusive for Europeans, and if so how would you enforce? Or is the time schedule set up to de facto limit it to Europeans?
I can't speak for Sagnet obviously. In my eyes, if an east coast american would be willing to get up at 5am to play in such an event, they should be able to. Why not. Or a west coaster at 2am. We would not set up our schedule TO limit it to europeans, but we would set it up to be best for europeans and excluding US players would likely be a side effect of that. Just like round 2 of the MPC was scheduled to go on until about 3 or 4am mainland european time which certainly was a factor in why only 2 europeans joined in.
Yeah, that was what I was thinking. No restrictions regarding who can play, but the time frame will be set to accommodate the European continent.

Regarding the official status of the tournament, why not call it the Online Europeans? Maybe in future years there can be both each year. One online tournament for players who can’t or won’t travel, and one physical, with the latter being the more prestigious one, of course.
I support more events as always. Being someone that has never travelled to anything other than the Socal Grand Prix due to my wife and children Gemp and Holotable opening me to other players around the world has been fantastic. There have been many discussions about people saying Gemp is ≠ Swccg play but I’ll again restate that some form of the game is better than no form of the game and the current state of the world means if you aren’t playing online you better be ready to play a marathon against the people in your own house.

Play more Swccg, be safe and most importantly keep supporting people doing things in this community that make them happy
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Re: Can I make a suggestion

Post by rhendon »

stealtheblind wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 11:26 am
Death Star wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 8:09 am
quickdraw3457 wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 7:13 am
Do you want it exclusive for Europeans, and if so how would you enforce? Or is the time schedule set up to de facto limit it to Europeans?
I can't speak for Sagnet obviously. In my eyes, if an east coast american would be willing to get up at 5am to play in such an event, they should be able to. Why not. Or a west coaster at 2am. We would not set up our schedule TO limit it to europeans, but we would set it up to be best for europeans and excluding US players would likely be a side effect of that. Just like round 2 of the MPC was scheduled to go on until about 3 or 4am mainland european time which certainly was a factor in why only 2 europeans joined in.

Nonetheless I am hesitant to call something like this "the european championship,". In my eyes, if we cannot do a tournament in Bochum this year, there should be no european championship this year. Same for worlds.
We can do a gemp tournament of some sorts if enough people want it, but its not gonna be the same by a mile.
Agree with all of this with regard to logistics. I do take issue with the "it's not really euros" or "its not really worlds" arguments. If we can't play IRL this year, then it would be an utter shame to fail to utilize Gemp to hold replacement events for majors. And the winners of those events should be considered 2020 major champions for their accomplishments. It's different than what we're used to, but so was switching from top 12 swiss to top 8 matchplay. Formats evolve, people adapt.

Besides, I seem to recall some dude winning the "fake" worlds event in 2001 after the real one was canceled, and 99.9% of folks consider him the champ without giving it a second thought! :)
Agree with Shaw.

It would be a shame to give up 2020 because of a pandemic.

Decipher no longer runs the events, so things are different already from that perspective.

We no longer require you to qualify for day 2. Things are even more different.

We've experimented with day 3 in numerous ways from group play, to more than a top 8 cut, to the system we have now where if you go 6-2 or better you are in.

Things are so far past what was the "same" for many years. Times change and things evolve. Sometimes they evolve out of necessity like we can't get together because of a virus that is killing people. Why does that virus need to kill our ability to crown champions too?

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Re: Can I make a suggestion

Post by Jnapolit31 »

Batmouse wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 12:25 pm
There have been many discussions about people saying Gemp is ≠ Swccg play but I’ll again restate that some form of the game is better than no form of the game and the current state of the world means if you aren’t playing online you better be ready to play a marathon against the people in your own house.

Play more Swccg, be safe and most importantly keep supporting people doing things in this community that make them happy
This is a great stump speech: Gemp SWCCG > no SWCCG. Gemp SWCCG will never = IRL SWCCG. Don't think there are many that would argue that...

But also agree with the above posts to find a good compromise of having competitive events during these times. Don't give them the exact name and prestige as the historical IRL events, but let's have them.
And with the capabilities now on Gemp to 1) verify decks are consistent throughout an event and 2) limit in-Gemp spectators, even better.
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Re: Can I make a suggestion

Post by WiseMarsellus »

hi. i have heard this thread is about whether or not worlds will happen online. i have not read this thread because it has lots of pages. i just want to say i support worlds happening online
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Re: Can I make a suggestion

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Likely won't participate in an online worlds, as I would not consider that to be Worlds, but rather "Online Worlds" or "GEMP Worlds". Gemp SWCCG is a different game than IRL SWCCG so in no way are they interchangeable. I found parts of the online MPC to be a farce (the "dq" for one), despite how great it was from the PC:s side to hold such an event with short notice and under worrying cirumstances irl, so it worries me a lot to have the most important tournament on the same platform.


I'm not speaking officially, but I'm pretty sure there won't be a Europeans this year online. We don't really care about crowning a champion that much. Camraderie, beers and having fun is more important. A Euro online MPC is fine, but I would not support actual Euros online.

Anyway, I guess this debate should not be in the Euros thread, but rather General Discussion...


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Re: Can I make a suggestion

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Darth_Link wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 5:08 am
Likely won't participate in an online worlds, as I would not consider that to be Worlds, but rather "Online Worlds" or "GEMP Worlds". Gemp SWCCG is a different game than IRL SWCCG so in no way are they interchangeable. I found parts of the online MPC to be a farce (the "dq" for one), despite how great it was from the PC:s side to hold such an event with short notice and under worrying cirumstances irl, so it worries me a lot to have the most important tournament on gemp
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