Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

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imrahil327
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Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

Post by imrahil327 »

Hey all, thanks for your feedback! Based on the numbers, as well as various suggestions from people, here is our initial plan for the 2020 World Championship schedule. We would like to finalize it soon, so people can start making plans around it, but this is not necessarily final, so if there are glaring holes or issues, we are open to discussion/changes.


Day 1: December 5 & 6
•Open to everyone
•Each player will have their choice of 4 different start times over the course of the first weekend (December 5-6). When you register, you will be asked for your first and second choices of pod to play in (people in the EST time-zone will be asked for their third as well.) We will guarantee that you will be in one of those pods. We're going to do our best to rebalance these pods (based on choice of start time, not strength of players) so that there are roughly even numbers in each pod. Also note that if a pod seems uniquely unpopular or there are not enough people, we reserve the right to contract/remove pods as necessary. All pod pairings and times will be finalized well in advance.
•The rough start times for these pods are:
-Saturday at 4am EST
-Saturday at 10am EST
-Sunday at 7am EST
-Sunday at 1pm EST
•Players will play a 6-game SOS tournament on Day 1, and anyone who finishes 4-2 or better will advance to Day 2.

Day 2: December 12
•Open to Day 1 qualifiers
•4-game SOS tournament starting at/around 10am EST
•Players will start the tournament with their record from Day 1 intact (for example, if you went 6-0 in Day 1, and won Game 1 on Day 2, you would be considered 7-0)
•The top 8 players from Day 2 after 10 total games will move on to Day 3

Day 3: December 13
•Open to Day 2 qualifiers
•Match play tournament starting at/around 10am EST
•Standard top-8 rules will be in effect (random player 1-4 will play random player 5-8, etc)



Additional notes
•Players will choose 1 DS and 1 LS for each day that play, so they may change decks between days (ie. You play IE on Day 1, you can switch to Hunt Down on Day 2 and Map on Day 3, if you wanted)
•Decks will not be posted for any day until the conclusion of Day 3
•Prizes TBD


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Re: Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

Post by imrahil327 »

I'd like to give a special thanks to TacoBill & allstarz97 for their hard work on working out the math, ideas, etc. surrounding this unique format! You guys are the best.
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Hunter wrote:Sebulba's W-L record is like...Always and 1. Tebow's is nowhere near that percentage.
allstarz97, about M:TG wrote:I feel like Michael Jordan playing baseball.

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Re: Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

Post by arebelspy »

Okay, the "anyone 4-2 is in, keep your record, play 4 more, top 8 make the cut" is a neat idea. A lot of swccg, but spread out across two weekends, and the second one has a higher quality caliber. I like it.

When are decklists for day 1 due? Before your own pod or before the very first pod?

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Re: Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

Post by TacoBill »

arebelspy wrote:
October 20th, 2020, 5:29 pm
Okay, the "anyone 4-2 is in, keep your record, play 4 more, top 8 make the cut" is a neat idea. A lot of swccg, but spread out across two weekends, and the second one has a higher quality caliber. I like it.

When are decklists for day 1 due? Before your own pod or before the very first pod?
I haven't talked this over with anyone but I'd assume they would be due on the Friday at midnight EST, before the first heat.
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Re: Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

Post by Jnapolit31 »

I think an important item to discuss & conclude on is what the chess timer for each side will be. With the volume of players and games and the logistics of this event in general, I think it should be shorter than other competitive events. 40:00 per side, and winner on time is whoever has more cards in hand + life force.
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Re: Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

Post by arebelspy »

Jnapolit31 wrote:
October 20th, 2020, 6:15 pm
winner on time is whoever has more cards in hand + life force.
???

So when you have more in a losing match, you just stall until time is out? And get a FW by tons of diff?

I personally think the established online timing is good.

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Re: Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

Post by Jnapolit31 »

arebelspy wrote:
October 20th, 2020, 7:44 pm
Jnapolit31 wrote:
October 20th, 2020, 6:15 pm
winner on time is whoever has more cards in hand + life force.
???

So when you have more in a losing match, you just stall until time is out? And get a FW by tons of diff?

I personally think the established online timing is good.
Whelp, sorry. What I said didn’t make sense - for an SOS event even less sense.
If your timer goes to 0:00, you lose the game.
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Re: Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

Post by arebelspy »

Hah, I didn't even catch the fact that diff is irrelevant with sos. Yeah, timer runs out, you lose, no diff needed. :thumbsup:

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Re: Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

Post by rhendon »

Jnapolit31 wrote:
October 20th, 2020, 6:15 pm
I think an important item to discuss & conclude on is what the chess timer for each side will be. With the volume of players and games and the logistics of this event in general, I think it should be shorter than other competitive events. 40:00 per side, and winner on time is whoever has more cards in hand + life force.
I originally had the timer for TMW at 45 minutes per player. Joe pointed out though that every other major online has used 50 minutes including all the OCS games. I didn't want to change that and confuse people.

I think 45 minutes per player is ideal in the sense that the maximum the game can go is just under 1.5 hours or 1:29:59 to be exact. But if 50 is the established number from other events changing it for one event will be confusing and mess people up. We should discuss this but leave worlds at the established 50 because of the proximity of the event and it being the one of to mess people up.

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Re: Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

Post by Jedicon »

Locked to observers (other than streamers)?

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Re: Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

Post by imrahil327 »

Jedicon wrote:
October 20th, 2020, 8:31 pm
Locked to observers (other than streamers)?
Definitely
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Re: Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

Post by arebelspy »

rhendon wrote:
October 20th, 2020, 8:00 pm
I think 45 minutes per player is ideal in the sense that the maximum the game can go is just under 1.5 hours or 1:29:59 to be exact. But if 50 is the established number from other events changing it for one event will be confusing and mess people up. We should discuss this but leave worlds at the established 50 because of the proximity of the event and it being the one of to mess people up.
I agree. If a change is needed, I would look at it happening next OCS season in Feb, to do it as a trial and get feedback, rather than doing so at worlds.

Does Gemp collect/store the length of games? We know how many timed out (due to the win condition), but if we have the time lengths (which I doubt it does store, but can't hurt to ask) we could see how many more games would have timed out (absent the fact that people would have sped up, of course).

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Re: Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

Post by quickdraw3457 »

Start and end times are stored which can be used to deduce time spent in the game, but not individual player time spent.
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Re: Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

Post by spideyguy0 »

arebelspy wrote:
October 20th, 2020, 5:29 pm
When are decklists for day 1 due? Before your own pod or before the very first pod?
If this is the most nitpicky thing Joe can come up with, I'd say we've done a good job.
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Re: Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

Post by arebelspy »

spideyguy0 wrote:
arebelspy wrote:
October 20th, 2020, 5:29 pm
When are decklists for day 1 due? Before your own pod or before the very first pod?
If this is the most nitpicky thing Joe can come up with, I'd say we've done a good job.
That seemed rude, Casey.

I don't feel snipping out the positivity from my post and call a clarification question nitpicky was in any way justified or beneficial to anything.

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Re: Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

Post by rsersen »

Regarding timers, agreed this probably isn’t the event to change. But it’d be nice to revisit before we do another marathon online event. Big difference between a single OCS game taking a max of 1:40 when you’ve got a whole month to play 12, versus 6 consecutive games in one day.

Basically makes this a 10 hour commitment on day 1, and maybe another 6-7ish hours on day 2. Because even if your games wrap up early, with so many players in each heat it’s pretty good odds that you’ll always be waiting for someone else with a slower matchup.

Sounds like we have the data to look into it though. It’d be interesting to look at, say, all the OCS games from this past season. See how many came close to that 1:40 mark. See how many would become timeouts if it was a 1:30 limit. And if it’s only x% (not sure what a comfortable number would be), then we could look at lowering it for 2021 onwards.

Aside from that, this all looks good, and really like the “all 4-2s move on” idea. Excited to play.
arebelspy wrote:
May 13th, 2020, 10:16 pm
Agree with Ryan.
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Re: Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

Post by arebelspy »

That's a good point that longer is acceptable if you're playing one game in an evening for OCS, but adds up when doing a bunch in one day.

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Re: Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

Post by Batmouse »

imrahil327 wrote:
October 20th, 2020, 8:31 pm
Jedicon wrote:
October 20th, 2020, 8:31 pm
Locked to observers (other than streamers)?
Definitely
That’s easy enough
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Re: Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

Post by Hazardville »

I would advocate keeping the clocks the same and experimenting with changing the times in the next OCS season.

That said, I'd ask here (and I'll also post again in the Gemp Features thread) if it's possible to alter the programming of the timer so that it only counts down when someone has a decision window. I think we could chop a lot of time off the clock without affecting actual timeouts if, for instance, the clock didn't count down while the system is drawing destinies (a process which takes several seconds for each one) or doing something else that doesn't involve any player decisions. It's a little disheartening realizing that once you're down to below 2 minutes, any battle is going to almost inevitably cause you to time out regardless of how fast you can use the interface.

Of course, that wouldn't actually reduce the real time that the game take unless we can make the system draw destinies faster and whatnot, but personally I'd prefer having more player agency in the last crucial seconds.
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Re: Worlds Schedule & Format (Tentative)

Post by Death Star »

rhendon wrote:
October 20th, 2020, 8:00 pm
I think 45 minutes per player is ideal in the sense that the maximum the game can go is just under 1.5 hours or 1:29:59 to be exact.
That’s not how it works. And to Justin in the post above, that is already happening. That’s why a game in total can take longer than the timers at start combined.
With 50 minutes per player, expect to add about 20 minutes to the game in total for stuff that happens when no timer is running. So a maximum of 2 hours for the round.
I would expect that the last game of each round not going to 0 time for both players and posting the schedule, starting games cancel each other out on average, therefor I expect 12 hours for Day 1.
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