Why so few EOPS decks

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stephengascrub
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Why so few EOPS decks

Post by stephengascrub »

One thing I'm curious about is why there were so few EOPS decks played at Nationals. Is it just bad against the meta right now? I clearly get that TTO is weaker, but I'm curious if people think EOPS is viable or not.

Thanks!


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Brazen
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Re: Why so few EOPS decks

Post by Brazen »

In a word, activation. Just has a hard time with activating enough.

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Re: Why so few EOPS decks

Post by quesosauce37 »

most of the EOPS decks non tto we have seen have been balanced/mains types deck which leads to this...
Brazen wrote:In a word, activation. Just has a hard time with activating enough.
if you run activation pullers like sonic/accelerate...well then you might as well play a better platform for mains like huntdown, or crv coruscant

and if you use ANSBv to flip the deck and pull sites, then your activating enough, but you probably are running more battleground sites than you can cover, if you are using a mains deck


ive toyed around with some at-st/biker scout stuff off eops, but it doesnt seem to do enough damage to win drain races, and it battles ok, but isnt very cost effective, and again, we have a better platform for that with IE
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Re: Why so few EOPS decks

Post by stephengascrub »

quesosauce37 wrote:most of the EOPS decks non tto we have seen have been balanced/mains types deck which leads to this...
Brazen wrote:In a word, activation. Just has a hard time with activating enough.
if you run activation pullers like sonic/accelerate...well then you might as well play a better platform for mains like huntdown, or crv coruscant

and if you use ANSBv to flip the deck and pull sites, then your activating enough, but you probably are running more battleground sites than you can cover, if you are using a mains deck


ive toyed around with some at-st/biker scout stuff off eops, but it doesnt seem to do enough damage to win drain races, and it battles ok, but isnt very cost effective, and again, we have a better platform for that with IE

Thanks queso!
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Re: Why so few EOPS decks

Post by stimpy »

I like playing it to flip, but I really don’t like how many cards it puts on table to do it. Also agreed on subpar activation.

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Re: Why so few EOPS decks

Post by TechTerror »

quesosauce37 wrote:
ive toyed around with some at-st/biker scout stuff off eops, but it doesnt seem to do enough damage to win drain races, and it battles ok, but isnt very cost effective, and again, we have a better platform for that with IE
This is what I have wanted to do and tried to do. Won one and lost one with aratech corp and atsts. I could take ground pretty well and not space.
stimpy wrote:I like playing it to flip, but I really don’t like how many cards it puts on table to do it. Also agreed on subpar activation.
Yes to there are so many cards on table and you.can't do it all well. Haven't had too much activation trouble. with the non mains version there are about 10 effects you could want:
Establish Secret Base (v)
Ominous Rumors
Endor Shield(v)
Aratech Corporation or Royal Escort (depending on what yoyre trying to do)
Mob Points or combo
Imperial Domination
Conduct Your Search
Imperial Arrest Order or maybe Combat Response or maybe AMSD(v)
Possibly search And destroy
And if you really want to hold Endor sites Perimeter Patrol is awesome! You don't need to run Any barriers and it saved me.
Hard to know what would be best and you have to use ominous rumors and ESB(v). Makes sense why the AMN start is popular. Guaranteed to disrupt Diplo right away with the AMN start.
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Re: RE: Re: Why so few EOPS decks

Post by arebelspy »

Brazen wrote:In a word, activation. Just has a hard time with activating enough.
Nailed it!

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Re: Why so few EOPS decks

Post by seitaer »

stimpy wrote:I like playing it to flip, but I really don’t like how many cards it puts on table to do it. Also agreed on subpar activation.
There's also the silly Strike planning interaction.

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Re: Why so few EOPS decks

Post by TacoBill »

seitaer wrote:
stimpy wrote:I like playing it to flip, but I really don’t like how many cards it puts on table to do it. Also agreed on subpar activation.
There's also the silly Strike planning interaction.
This is being fixed prior to worlds.
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Re: Why so few EOPS decks

Post by puck71 »

TacoBill wrote:
seitaer wrote:
stimpy wrote:I like playing it to flip, but I really don’t like how many cards it puts on table to do it. Also agreed on subpar activation.
There's also the silly Strike planning interaction.
This is being fixed prior to worlds.
Already has been.
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Re: Why so few EOPS decks

Post by JarJarDrinks »

I think EOPS is still a good deck. But there's just so many amazing DS decks right now that it's flying under the radar.
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Re: Why so few EOPS decks

Post by timeofyouppi »

JarJarDrinks wrote:I think EOPS is still a good deck. But there's just one amazing DS deck right now that it's flying under the radar.
Fixed
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Re: Why so few EOPS decks

Post by Tyrith »

To spell out the activation issue some more -

EOps (and the cards it lets you start) doesn't give you a way to pull chain additional locations without going through Establish Secret Base v, which is slow and on the dangerous side. That means you have to use effects and interrupts to pull more activation. The EOps I Am Your Father + Combat Response decks that were being played this year could only start one activation effect. You can start two, but then you don't have IAYFv and your ground gets way more vulnerable to LSJK, plus you have no saber drain damage. Without the saber, your pure damage winds up being pretty weak.

Those decks also played the Bridge. However, one effect plus the Bridge only gives the deck 8 of its own icons. Modern decks (that aren't TRM) really, really hate playing two twixes worth of activation interrupts, especially Combat Response decks. The deck has to play SRF combos to pull ships, the usual Force Field/Force Lightning/Force Push ground stuff, Ghhhk+puller, and at least a few utility interrupts. You just don't have space to play 7 activation interrupts and still play enough action cards to make it all come together consistently in non-mains matchups.

My instinct is that if there's a way forward for EOps type shells, it's going to be the same as the SYCFA decks that were played through Nationals and go through KDYv for activation. Having to pay to pull systems is just obnoxious for Saber 1 + Slave I decks though, especially EOps, because you can't pay for a system and also go for T1 Slave I + Ozzel, which is one of the deck's strongest plays.

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Re: Why so few EOPS decks

Post by aermet69 »

I don't disagree with the above in it's entirety, but I don't think EOPS is the problem. It has other virtues such as being able to efficiently start other starting interrupts than just Prep.Defenses, while still being able to get E-Shield and a site puller with objective as well as a card that lets you put early drain pressure on opponent in space. EOPS is a super flexible platform. I think it's hurting a little that AOBS can get a location for 1 Force that for free pulls another location. With Shadows, I think the pulling on Xizors Palace could be changed or simply stricken.

With the influx of spies on LS, I've been using Power Of The Hutt in EOPS to settle the bunker with Ephant Mon. Can also pull Sail Barge, that gives you a twix. All in 1 effect. Not super efficient, but if you get as system puller as well, you should be able to toss some activation on the table early on without relying on luck. You can also do either TTO start to get a free twix and another puller, or AMN start to get a twix and Slave 1 if you don't go matching ships all out, or 4-lom for the slower push. You could also do Podrace for arena and Sec.Prec. for a whooping 6/2 right off the bat :)
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Re: Why so few EOPS decks

Post by Darth_Link »

Not sure there are actually so few EOPS decks. MAP was big for most of the year, and now it seems AOBS has taken over that spot, which makes people feel that no other decks are played.

But I agree with the activation being a potential issue for the deck, at least mid-game. Early game is great, and if you get Bridge or Vader's Castle you'll be fine.
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Re: Why so few EOPS decks

Post by agnos »

It’s complicated. If you’re playing EOPs, you’re doing so primarily to flip to limit destinies (for space). That means you ideally want Ominous Rumors active at least at 1 system. So you end up having your deck half devoted to space and half to ground; so sometimes you lose because you draw the wrong half of your deck. The deck legitimately has activation consistency issues unless it gives up more icons. The loss of the ATST lasers made the deck much worse as well. Plus, what it does well other decks do better and more effectively. It’s just not as good or streamlined as other options.
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Re: Why so few EOPS decks

Post by Tyrith »

aermet69 wrote:I don't disagree with the above in it's entirety, but I don't think EOPS is the problem. It has other virtues such as being able to efficiently start other starting interrupts than just Prep.Defenses, while still being able to get E-Shield and a site puller with objective as well as a card that lets you put early drain pressure on opponent in space. EOPS is a super flexible platform.
Yeah, and I don't disagree with that and have used EOps as a platform for a lot of nonsense personally recently - the decks just look a lot different than the Combat Response decks that were being played earlier this year. I think there are better platforms than EOps if you aren't going to be playing either KDYv or Establish Secret Base v as activation methods.

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Re: Why so few EOPS decks

Post by sjacree »

agnos wrote:It’s complicated. If you’re playing EOPs, you’re doing so primarily to flip to limit destinies (for space). That means you ideally want Ominous Rumors active at least at 1 system. So you end up having your deck half devoted to space and half to ground; so sometimes you lose because you draw the wrong half of your deck. The deck legitimately has activation consistency issues unless it gives up more icons. The loss of the ATST lasers made the deck much worse as well. Plus, what it does well other decks do better and more effectively. It’s just not as good or streamlined as other options.
DS doesn't have the same caliber of flexible characters as LS does. A lot of DS's character are good on the ground or in space but not both. That is my issue with the deck.
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