The Problem with LSJK

SWCCG game play discussion.
User avatar
Throdo
Member
Posts: 6999
Joined: February 18th, 2007, 8:08 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: The Problem with LSJK

Post by Throdo »

chriskelly wrote:Right, back on topic... the issue is Decipher (slightly) short printed an iconic main that was both highly collectible and highly playable, making him really desirable to everyone. And they did it in a set that sold well without excess stock and no “unlimited” release.

Obviously it’d be awesome if he was cheaper and I think the PC does an OUTSTANDING job of keeping things cheap where we can; however just the same, everyone should acknowledge LSJK is no white whale or unicorn- a lot (A LOT) of players have the card and (understandably) want to be able to play him.

While we continue to explore “legal” solutions within the bounds of our agreement to help those who might have trouble acquiring them, we don’t think it’s fair to remove him from the entire community (nor would it be reasonable to expect us to, given the huge meta implications it would have and that - let’s be honest - more sanctioned, PC official games are played digitally than in real life at this point, setting aside the other very real circumstances of borrowing or otherwise just flat out acquiring a card that lots of people have successfully done).

TL;DR- it stinks he’s so pricey, but there are plenty of him out there and available for play in various ways. But yes we will continue to explore options and try new things to help soften the financial burden of the game even more than we already do and hopefully we can come up with something delightful!

TL;DR the TL;DR- I’d like it to be as easy as possible for people to play Jedi Luke if that’s what they want to play.

This is so much BS.



But you guys heard it here, everything is fine, those in charge want it this way. Nothing is going to change.



User avatar
Cam Solusar
Member
Posts: 16871
Joined: November 23rd, 2002, 7:57 pm
Location: Sunny Southern California

Re: The Problem with LSJK

Post by Cam Solusar »

Rebort wrote:So this is just a new DnD philosophy then? What about legacy? We were completely fine without LSJK being as prominent as he is today.
I think legacy got LSJK better than we do today. A big reason was the existence of Luke SITF. The only exception I think was wysv, which needed 3x LSJK as I mentioned previously. But 3 is less than 4/5, which is really what you need for a top tier no compromise mains deck nowadays. I think we got OA (which reintroduced concepts used by wys v) correct by making it one of the cheapest decks out there to build without compromise. There really isn't an alternative for mains without compromising somehow.

I think reasoning behind not making a cheap equivalent of LSJK really clashes with decisions like not using ltww as the underlying card for rescue in the clouds v. Cost and availability had to have been factors there. I think it would be very easy to make the LSJK equivalent of a Droideka for people who like mains and don't want to compromise on power.
Camden Y, Southern California
BrenDerlin wrote:These movies aren't called Star Battles, yo.

Hazardville
LS Region: Tatooine
LS Region: Tatooine
Posts: 688
Joined: January 28th, 2018, 5:37 am
GEMP Username: Jagteq

Re: The Problem with LSJK

Post by Hazardville »

Cam Solusar wrote:
Rebort wrote:So this is just a new DnD philosophy then? What about legacy? We were completely fine without LSJK being as prominent as he is today.
I think legacy got LSJK better than we do today. A big reason was the existence of Luke SITF. The only exception I think was wysv, which needed 3x LSJK as I mentioned previously. But 3 is less than 4/5, which is really what you need for a top tier no compromise mains deck nowadays. I think we got OA (which reintroduced concepts used by wys v) correct by making it one of the cheapest decks out there to build without compromise. There really isn't an alternative for mains without compromising somehow.

I think reasoning behind not making a cheap equivalent of LSJK really clashes with decisions like not using ltww as the underlying card for rescue in the clouds v. Cost and availability had to have been factors there. I think it would be very easy to make the LSJK equivalent of a Droideka for people who like mains and don't want to compromise on power.
The compromise is the biggest issue for me. If playing YS didn’t feel like hobbling myself competitively, I’d say we could leave things as they are. But it does, and I don’t necessarily think the design of YS is to blame.

I don’t really understand the resistance to making changes to LMFBM to make LSJK not the default beat choice. We don’t need to make LSJK unplayable, just not make him hands-down better than all the other options. I feel like a number of the suggestions in other threads do that, but for whatever reason it seems like a non-starter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Justin Miyashiro
Image

User avatar
quesosauce37
LS Region: Tatooine
LS Region: Tatooine
Posts: 13362
Joined: November 8th, 2007, 6:16 pm
Location: North Denver
GEMP Username: quesosauce

Re: The Problem with LSJK

Post by quesosauce37 »

this is a reminder that troll posting and name calling and general bad language towards others will not be tolerated, there has been plenty of decent discussion here please think before you post and cut the unnecessary stuff or this thread will be locked
Jerry H

Image Image

User avatar
dorshe1
Member
Posts: 8422
Joined: June 13th, 2013, 3:57 pm
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Holotable username: dorshe1
GEMP Username: dorshe1
Contact:

Re: The Problem with LSJK

Post by dorshe1 »

Hazardville wrote:
Cam Solusar wrote:
Rebort wrote:So this is just a new DnD philosophy then? What about legacy? We were completely fine without LSJK being as prominent as he is today.
I think legacy got LSJK better than we do today. A big reason was the existence of Luke SITF. The only exception I think was wysv, which needed 3x LSJK as I mentioned previously. But 3 is less than 4/5, which is really what you need for a top tier no compromise mains deck nowadays. I think we got OA (which reintroduced concepts used by wys v) correct by making it one of the cheapest decks out there to build without compromise. There really isn't an alternative for mains without compromising somehow.

I think reasoning behind not making a cheap equivalent of LSJK really clashes with decisions like not using ltww as the underlying card for rescue in the clouds v. Cost and availability had to have been factors there. I think it would be very easy to make the LSJK equivalent of a Droideka for people who like mains and don't want to compromise on power.
The compromise is the biggest issue for me. If playing YS didn’t feel like hobbling myself competitively, I’d say we could leave things as they are. But it does, and I don’t necessarily think the design of YS is to blame.

I don’t really understand the resistance to making changes to LMFBM to make LSJK not the default beat choice. We don’t need to make LSJK unplayable, just not make him hands-down better than all the other options. I feel like a number of the suggestions in other threads do that, but for whatever reason it seems like a non-starter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Literally, what do you expect DD to do. Nerf LMFBM right now? What will that accomplish other than make it so LS has no competitive options at all?

1) Expensive cards is NOT a balance issue.
2) The design team has worked hard to put most new v-cards on cheap, and readily accessible cards
3) There are at least two other platforms that have solid win percentages other than TRM / Hitco (OA and Diplo) and multiple other decks that are competitive without LSJK even if they are not the cream of the crop.
4) It has been said over, and over, and over, that at major events there is plenty of availability to borrow these cards.
5) In smaller events it is likely not an issue due to other *cough* p-word *cough* availability.

So, it it isn't a balance issue, there are other competitive decks and for major events there are likely enough copies to be had if you put in the work ahead of time. There is not an actual issue here. Also, design has not said that they aren't aware of the issue, they are focusing on making other platforms stronger so that there are other tier 1 options for LS in case you don't like the mains play style or don't want to borrow cards. And what happens when they spoil cards to help other LS platforms (Holdo, QMC) they get torn to shreds for 'INSERT RANDOM REASON HERE.'

Thanks!
Image

User avatar
chriskelly
Design Advocate
Posts: 22655
Joined: January 28th, 2003, 2:13 pm
Location: New York

Re: The Problem with LSJK

Post by chriskelly »

Cam Solusar wrote:I think legacy got LSJK better than we do today. A big reason was the existence of Luke SITF. The only exception I think was wysv, which needed 3x LSJK as I mentioned previously. But 3 is less than 4/5, which is really what you need for a top tier no compromise mains deck nowadays. I think we got OA (which reintroduced concepts used by wys v) correct by making it one of the cheapest decks out there to build without compromise. There really isn't an alternative for mains without compromising somehow.

I think reasoning behind not making a cheap equivalent of LSJK really clashes with decisions like not using ltww as the underlying card for rescue in the clouds v. Cost and availability had to have been factors there. I think it would be very easy to make the LSJK equivalent of a Droideka for people who like mains and don't want to compromise on power.
I would definitely love a Luke, SitF (for a bunch of reasons).

And I don't know if I agree with your second paragraph. We've been trying for some time to "hit the sweet spot" on finding a cheap equivalent of LSJK for some time. TBH, I'm surprised you would publicly say or imply otherwise, with you knowing the development that went in to several of those cards.

But yeah, despite Throdo's assertion to the contrary, we're still searching for a good solution on it. I apologize it's not as fast as some think it should be, but I am still optimistic it can get done in a way that's sensitive to all of the various competing needs, responsibilities, and obligations that have to be considered.

User avatar
dorshe1
Member
Posts: 8422
Joined: June 13th, 2013, 3:57 pm
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Holotable username: dorshe1
GEMP Username: dorshe1
Contact:

Re: The Problem with LSJK

Post by dorshe1 »

quesosauce37 wrote:this is a reminder that troll posting and name calling and general bad language towards others will not be tolerated, there has been plenty of decent discussion here please think before you post and cut the unnecessary stuff or this thread will be locked
Putting a consequence of locking this thread isn't really a penalty.

Thanks!
Image

User avatar
stephengascrub
Member
Posts: 1465
Joined: April 15th, 2011, 11:17 pm
Location: Georgia
GEMP Username: Polymers55

Re: The Problem with LSJK

Post by stephengascrub »

Do I think there's a problem? Yes. But it's not LSJK. It's LMFBM. This has been talked about a lot in other threads and I don't feel like restating those arguments. But if people want to know where I stand I'd say look at a lot of what Brandon Baity has said. He has a lot of well thought out data driven arguments. As far as Luke? Luke is fine. People aren't complaining about Palpatine. People are complaining about Luke because of LMFMB. And I'd argue that at least 50%, if not 75%, of the price disparity between the two cards is because of LMFMB.

Now that being said, I think the PC generally does a great job. I also think there are a LOT of viable decks that require 0-1 copies of LSJK. These include:

-EBO
-OA
-DIPLO
-WHAP
-Profit
-QMC
-No Idea (Probably)
-YOPS
-TIGIH
-LS Senate


My biggest concern is that at least several of these decks are as viable as the 'Luke' decks. As long as that's the case, I think things are fine.
Stephen M.
Dagobah Region

Image

Image



-Team The Bad Batch

Apollyon
Booster Box
Booster Box
Posts: 1407
Joined: January 15th, 2017, 8:05 pm
Location: Kashyyyk
Holotable username: Apollyon
GEMP Username: Apollyon

Re: The Problem with LSJK

Post by Apollyon »

chriskelly wrote:Right, back on topic... the issue is Decipher (slightly) short printed an iconic main that was both highly collectible and highly playable, making him really desirable to everyone. And they did it in a set that sold well without excess stock and no “unlimited” release.

Obviously it’d be awesome if he was cheaper and I think the PC does an OUTSTANDING job of keeping things cheap where we can; however just the same, everyone should acknowledge LSJK is no white whale or unicorn- a lot (A LOT) of players have the card and (understandably) want to be able to play him.

While we continue to explore “legal” solutions within the bounds of our agreement to help those who might have trouble acquiring them, we don’t think it’s fair to remove him from the entire community (nor would it be reasonable to expect us to, given the huge meta implications it would have and that - let’s be honest - more sanctioned, PC official games are played digitally than in real life at this point, setting aside the other very real circumstances of borrowing or otherwise just flat out acquiring a card that lots of people have successfully done).

TL;DR- it stinks he’s so pricey, but there are plenty of him out there and available for play in various ways. But yes we will continue to explore options and try new things to help soften the financial burden of the game even more than we already do and hopefully we can come up with something delightful!

TL;DR the TL;DR- I’d like it to be as easy as possible for people to play Jedi Luke if that’s what they want to play.
I like mains being a thing - they are the coolest characters who get the most screen time. Vader is one of the best characters in the history of movies, and Luke is a great hero character to oppose Vader. The narrative arc of the original trilogy is really well done, and the biggest reason why the franchise is so big.

It's not even the "iconic main" part that I don't like about LSJK - it's that LSJK (and Emperor) has a 6 destiny. It feels like an attempt to sell packs more than a good design decision. Bad design decisions hamstring design space in the future (see: Alter or the number of objectives that do something to Your Destiny, then the Luke shield for DS, then the Leia shield...).

Right now, LSJK is just a giant uninteresting-but-really-good blob of stats that's seeing the most play of any card in the game. As someone who is far more Johnny than Spike, I don't really get excited about playing him in anything, and I get tired of seeing my opponent draw him for destiny while my Vaders are 1s and my 6 destiny character is such a warm body.

From a metagame point of view, it's really tough for characters of similar power levels to compete with that. Young Skywalker's really good and he's used far less than LSJK is. Same with Rebel Scout v. That feels like that's stagnating LS decks - since I've started playing again several years ago, the top LS decks have consistently been "LMFBM + LSJK and the deck that got the best helper from the last set".

Corran
Reflections Gold
Reflections Gold
Posts: 2867
Joined: June 20th, 2004, 4:53 pm
Location: Columbus, Ohio
GEMP Username: corran
Contact:

Re: The Problem with LSJK

Post by Corran »

Image
Check out Bad Deck Breakdowns, a Star Wars CCG Deckbuilding podcast, on the podcatcher of your choice or https://www.kendallcast.ninja
dvphimself wrote: https://www.twitch.tv/kendallcastnetwork/ is my favourite SWCCG channel.
seitaer wrote: Corran's streams are great, even if he likes the last jedi

User avatar
quesosauce37
LS Region: Tatooine
LS Region: Tatooine
Posts: 13362
Joined: November 8th, 2007, 6:16 pm
Location: North Denver
GEMP Username: quesosauce

Re: The Problem with LSJK

Post by quesosauce37 »

Corran wrote:Image
this is top notch work, you're an asset to this mission!

Image
Jerry H

Image Image

Hazardville
LS Region: Tatooine
LS Region: Tatooine
Posts: 688
Joined: January 28th, 2018, 5:37 am
GEMP Username: Jagteq

Re: The Problem with LSJK

Post by Hazardville »

dorshe1 wrote:
Hazardville wrote:
Cam Solusar wrote:
Rebort wrote:So this is just a new DnD philosophy then? What about legacy? We were completely fine without LSJK being as prominent as he is today.
I think legacy got LSJK better than we do today. A big reason was the existence of Luke SITF. The only exception I think was wysv, which needed 3x LSJK as I mentioned previously. But 3 is less than 4/5, which is really what you need for a top tier no compromise mains deck nowadays. I think we got OA (which reintroduced concepts used by wys v) correct by making it one of the cheapest decks out there to build without compromise. There really isn't an alternative for mains without compromising somehow.

I think reasoning behind not making a cheap equivalent of LSJK really clashes with decisions like not using ltww as the underlying card for rescue in the clouds v. Cost and availability had to have been factors there. I think it would be very easy to make the LSJK equivalent of a Droideka for people who like mains and don't want to compromise on power.
The compromise is the biggest issue for me. If playing YS didn’t feel like hobbling myself competitively, I’d say we could leave things as they are. But it does, and I don’t necessarily think the design of YS is to blame.

I don’t really understand the resistance to making changes to LMFBM to make LSJK not the default beat choice. We don’t need to make LSJK unplayable, just not make him hands-down better than all the other options. I feel like a number of the suggestions in other threads do that, but for whatever reason it seems like a non-starter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Literally, what do you expect DD to do. Nerf LMFBM right now? What will that accomplish other than make it so LS has no competitive options at all?

1) Expensive cards is NOT a balance issue.
2) The design team has worked hard to put most new v-cards on cheap, and readily accessible cards
3) There are at least two other platforms that have solid win percentages other than TRM / Hitco (OA and Diplo) and multiple other decks that are competitive without LSJK even if they are not the cream of the crop.
4) It has been said over, and over, and over, that at major events there is plenty of availability to borrow these cards.
5) In smaller events it is likely not an issue due to other *cough* p-word *cough* availability.

So, it it isn't a balance issue, there are other competitive decks and for major events there are likely enough copies to be had if you put in the work ahead of time. There is not an actual issue here. Also, design has not said that they aren't aware of the issue, they are focusing on making other platforms stronger so that there are other tier 1 options for LS in case you don't like the mains play style or don't want to borrow cards. And what happens when they spoil cards to help other LS platforms (Holdo, QMC) they get torn to shreds for 'INSERT RANDOM REASON HERE.'

Thanks!
Literally, yes, I expect DD to address a problem card that many feel is overpowered and is representing a real issue to the acquisition of new players, which seems to me like it should be something the community ought to care about.

I feel like this is an area where there's a critical difference between a New Player and a Returning Player. A New player is starting from literal nothing and trying to build a collection to be able to play a great but very complicated game in which they know many of the players involved have decades of experience over them. That's already a big hurdle, and every single time a deck with "Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight x4" is played to a top-performing finish, it makes that hurdle that much higher, because now you're asking the New player to make a $500 investment in order to play the "best deck."

This has always been my problem. I really love that mains decks are a thing (when I think Star Wars, I don't think Clakdor VII Operative x32). And the Dark Side has a number of really strong implementations of that strategy, between Hunt Down, CCT, Endor Ops, Watto, various CRv platforms, and so on. But DS gets to do that because the Emperor is a 1x or 2x card in most of those decks, and a utility piece at that. Vader and Maul the bad-asses that people play mains to play with, and while the best versions of them are not super cheap (arguably, Emperor's Enforcer might be the best Vader right now), they are in an acquirable price range. LS does not have that feature. If you are a New player who is buying into this game for the first time and you want to play mains and feel competitive, you're SOL.

Look, I think Jedi Business is a really cool card, and I played Jedi Business Profit at MPC, which was a really fun deck. It also constantly felt woefully underpowered and like I was playing a worse deck than I could be at a tournament I had to fly to, get a hotel, and take time off work to attend. Now, I'd be the first to admit that I've got a lot to learn as a player, so it's very possible I was just playing badly, but that feeling is one I don't have when playing TRM, and I don't think it's because I made a quantum leap in playskill in a month. If nothing else, there's a reason no one else is really playing Profit now, or TIGIH, or almost any non-LMFBM mains platform. Yes, EBO, OA, and Diplo see a lot of play, but if you want to play mains, it's LSJK x4 or bust. Feel free to prove me wrong by playing Jedi Business, or Profit, or Hyperdrive, or some other non-LSJK mains platform at Continentals or Worlds.

This is a real issue for New Players that I feel is being swept under the rug. Yeah, a returning player who still has friends in the game from back when they played a decade ago might be able to find enough people to borrow 4 LSJK from, but a new player who knows nobody? If I didn't happen to live an hour away from quesosauce with a strong growing community in CO, I don't know if I'd even have gone to MPC, as I wouldn't have been able to play any decks I really wanted to. Yes, I fully recognize that the community exceeded my outsider expectations, and borrowing cards is definitely a possibility, but it also feels like a crutch. What if we get to a meta like the Black Sun Worlds, where everyone is playing 6 Emperors and 5 Lukes? Does a significant part of the community have 10 Lukes so they can lend someone else a deck?

Let's also clear something up: does LS have lots of competitive options, or not? You said that tweaking, or even nerfing, LMFBM will "make it so LS has no competitive options at all," implying that every non-LMFBM deck is trash, and then immediately say that LS has 2+ other strong platforms amidst a myriad of other options, in which case completely killing LMFBM (which I don't think anyone is really advocating) wouldn't even matter b/c there's a host of alternatives. Which is it? It certainly can't be both.

I also want to say, I do think the PC has done a great job with putting virtual cards on cheap cards whenever possible. The problem price-wise here is the Decipher card LSJK, not that the PC made a $50 virtual card or anything like that, at least not in the current environment. I do kinda wish the Finalizer wasn't on the Executor and was instead of any random common, but if that's the biggest complaint, I think that sings high praises of the PC.

I realize people like this card, and I don't mind that. By all means, play it if it's your favorite card. I just don't think we need to artificially make it the Best Card In the Game. It kind of already is without help. I feel like LMFBM makes Young Skywalker and Luke Rebel Scout total wastes, because LSJK is so much better than either of those cards with the boosts from LMFBM that there's no reason to play them. Virtually no one does, and the decklists from majors bear that out. I don't think it's a huge ask for DD to slightly tweak a helper card that already barely needs to exist in order to make the decision of which DSII Luke to play an actual decision. Play LSJK if you want, I have no interest in stopping you, but I'd like to not feel like I'm wasting my time when I want to try Young Skywalker instead.
Justin Miyashiro
Image

aermet69
LS Region: Toola
LS Region: Toola
Posts: 5656
Joined: July 14th, 2009, 2:16 pm
Location: Denmark (Toola)
GEMP Username: aermet69

Re: The Problem with LSJK

Post by aermet69 »

Good post. Thank you. I bowed out of this discussion long ago, but safe to say that LMFBM is one of two reasons I'm not particualrly hyped about the game.
- Casper Jørgensen
aermet69 - Member of Team Copenhagen
"Team Copenhagen never dies. They just go to the bar and respawn."
~UK National Champion 2011. ~Worlds 2012, 10th place. ~German Nationals 2014, Runner-up. ~European Champion 2014. ~Toola Regionals 2015, Runner-Up.

allstarz97
World Champion
World Champion
Posts: 6986
Joined: April 1st, 2007, 2:15 pm

Re: The Problem with LSJK

Post by allstarz97 »

You guys messed up by not allowing the new Luke to deploy to bgs and fight and not allowing him with Jedi business. That was a major dropping of the ball because it would have been something that was powerful enough where you wouldn’t feel the need to have 5x jsjk but also wouldn’t obsolete them either... and the new Luke is cool, a factor the pc often ignores.

I think sticking to the Thematics cost us, and like gameplay has to be over thematics, ultimately this is a game where Luke and mace can fight side by side so gameplay will always and should always trump thematics within reason.

Paul McPherson
LS Region: Naboo
LS Region: Naboo
Posts: 2206
Joined: June 19th, 2005, 12:11 pm
Location: Leicester, UK
GEMP Username: PMcPherson

Re: The Problem with LSJK

Post by Paul McPherson »

aermet69 wrote:Good post. Thank you. I bowed out of this discussion long ago, but safe to say that LMFBM is one of two reasons I'm not particualrly hyped about the game.
Just to check, Emil is the other reason, right? :lol:
Image Image

World Championship 26th Place - 2019
European Championship 4th Place - 2013
Naboo Regional Winner - 2015, 2018 & 2019
Ralltiir Regional Runner-up - 2019
English National Winner - 2014
Welsh National Winner - 2017 & 2018
German National Runner-up - 2018

Join the Star Wars CCG UK Facebook Page

User avatar
FlorisV
Member
Posts: 2989
Joined: July 13th, 2003, 10:21 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: The Problem with LSJK

Post by FlorisV »

allstarz97 wrote:You guys messed up by not allowing the new Luke to deploy to bgs and fight and not allowing him with Jedi business.
Nah, he'd be too strong.

This whole thread feels superfluous. The problem with LSJK is LMFBM v. In Legacy, Jedi Luke was not as widely played and pretty much only played in decks that had an Endor site. You could still play him in TRM or even Combat because 8 force was still worth the powerhouse he is but it was more balanced that way.

Tbiesty
Reflections Gold
Reflections Gold
Posts: 2446
Joined: October 3rd, 2011, 8:27 pm
Location: Rochester, MN
GEMP Username: Tbiesty
Contact:

Re: The Problem with LSJK

Post by Tbiesty »

Deploy on table. [Death Star II] Luke is deploy = 6destiny = 1, ...
Just like his father. ;)
Troy Biesterfeld - Rochester, MN

User avatar
quickdraw3457
Multimedia and Special Projects Advocate
Posts: 26051
Joined: September 3rd, 2003, 5:10 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
GEMP Username: quickdraw

Re: The Problem with LSJK

Post by quickdraw3457 »

FlorisV wrote:In Legacy, Jedi Luke was not as widely played and pretty much only played in decks that had an Endor site. You could still play him in TRM or even Combat because 8 force was still worth the powerhouse he is but it was more balanced that way.
This has been said numerous times and it’s just not true. Lsjk was played 1-2x in a variety of decks, including wys v, all kinds of mains platforms, and often when no Endor sites on table. Just have a look at legacy deck lists on the main page.
Matt C. - Pittsburgh, PA
Image
Hunter wrote:quickdraw is right

Remaker
Member
Posts: 1891
Joined: March 28th, 2008, 6:39 pm
Location: pittsburgh

Re: The Problem with LSJK

Post by Remaker »

in case anyone else thinks this is ok...no, proxies are not tournament legal, and remaker will now receive mandatory deck checks at all events
:epic:
If you wanted to play wys v then you wanted 3x LSJK
definitely not. I would say at most it was a 2x because you were playing other good jedi along with him but you didn't want to dilute ur deck with too many "mains". you had other jedi you wanted to play 1x like fallen jedi, mace, obi premiere, maybe even a blind jedi.
I think the PC does an OUTSTANDING job of keeping things cheap where we can
what do you mean "where we can"? I guess it's just curiosity but don't you have control over what cards are used as the base/underlying for every v card? what im getting at is "where we can" literally every v card?
TL;DR- it stinks he’s so pricey, but there are plenty of him out there and available for play in various ways.
just checked ebay while writing this and there are 3 for sale. not even enough for 1 narp to build a deck with. what are the other various ways? where are all of these sellers?
4) It has been said over, and over, and over, that at major events there is plenty of availability to borrow these cards.
Personally, I'll let anyone at a star wars event borrow most cards if they need them. However, there's a line to be drawn when we're talking about borrowing 4x lsjk pushing 5-600 bucks. gonna be a hard pass from me and I assume others as well. Some people who are gracious enough to let others use them, like chris kelly, do so with the stipulation that you double sleeve them. that's understandable, but if you dont already double sleeve ur deck then ur S.O.L. I'm sure there are people out there more trustworthy than myself, props to them.


you also have the issue of calling a spade a spade.
our design advocate has a huge chubby for LSJK. like big BIG eggplant
so much so that he donated money to the PC to virtualize a main character.
obviously you can't v card LSJK, that card is on the DO NOT VIRTUALIZE LIST.

if you don't believe me, read this.


===================================================================
6. No/Limited/Scrutinized Virtualization lists
===================================================================
Note: most of these cannot be chosen anyway, as they are main character designs.

LIST 1 - ABSOLUTELY NO VIRTUALIZING
1. Emperor Palpatine
2. Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight


for some reason he was still allowed to make this effect.

Here we are, years later. still dealing with people * about it. for good reason

User avatar
JarJarDrinks
Member
Posts: 26256
Joined: November 4th, 2003, 10:01 am

Re: The Problem with LSJK

Post by JarJarDrinks »

Remaker wrote:so much so that he donated money to the PC to virtualize a main character.
obviously you can't v card LSJK, that card is on the DO NOT VIRTUALIZE LIST.
Yeah this is a totally false narrative.
dx_37 wrote:
October 2nd, 2019, 12:12 pm
I would be all for a reset if I get to be on the reset team
"Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking."
- Bill Maher

"How you play the game is important. But for me, it's about if you win or lose."
- Derek Jeter

Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”