Tournament Menu Suggestions

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arebelspy
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Re: Tournament Menu Suggestions

Post by arebelspy »

You're missing my point on working with.

Have the front page tie into the forums, not be a separate thing.



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Re: Tournament Menu Suggestions

Post by Corran »

arebelspy wrote:
August 20th, 2019, 10:59 am
You're missing my point on working with.

Have the front page tie into the forums, not be a separate thing.
It would be nice to have the landing page demonstrate how active the forums are. Much of the content that shows on the front page feels like that of a community that's had little to no activity in the last few years.
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Re: Tournament Menu Suggestions

Post by quickdraw3457 »

arebelspy wrote:You're missing my point on working with.

Have the front page tie into the forums, not be a separate thing.
I agree that would be great, but I think technically speaking that's a lofty goal. They'll tie together with login information, but I don't know if it's feasible for us to make a way where making a post about event information in the forums automatically transfers over to the calendar (or vice versa).
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Re: Tournament Menu Suggestions

Post by Corran »

quickdraw3457 wrote:
August 20th, 2019, 11:05 am
arebelspy wrote:You're missing my point on working with.

Have the front page tie into the forums, not be a separate thing.
I agree that would be great, but I think technically speaking that's a lofty goal. They'll tie together with login information, but I don't know if it's feasible for us to make a way where making a post about event information in the forums automatically transfers over to the calendar (or vice versa).
What I'm suggesting(and this is also a lofty, pie in the sky goal that I don't expect to happen) would be to get rid of things like the calendar and instead just have the tournaments link go to the tournaments page on the forums. Even the fact that the forums are a subcategory burried in the community section seems wrong. Make the forums a category on the top of the page and/or give a feed of posts on the front page. Anything to show people who stumble on the page that people are still discussing the game every day.
Check out Bad Deck Breakdowns, a Star Wars CCG Deckbuilding podcast, on the podcatcher of your choice or https://www.kendallcast.ninja
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Re: Tournament Menu Suggestions

Post by seitaer »

quickdraw3457 wrote:
August 20th, 2019, 10:54 am
arebelspy wrote:
August 20th, 2019, 10:07 am
As discussed many times, better to work with people's inclinations rather than fight human nature.
Yes but many other people (narps, people just realizing we are still around) don't have the same inclination to go check out a message board for what's happening in the next month or two. That's something unique to our community that has been around for years doing it the same old way forever. The point of keeping the website calendar/articles updated is to show the people that aren't inclined to check the forums first and foremost that there is an active presence here. It doesn't have to mean "stop doing what is easy for you." It has a higher purpose.
This, it's the same with making the forum actually look good. People now days hardly even use forums. We all do obviously but we're a minority, a dinosaur of the digital age. We're the ones fighting inclination not the other way around.

I've already posted quite a few forum stuff on the wordpress, and I'd do a lot more if anything I posted didn't get buried under the latest deck lists being posted as articles or whatever weird thing is going on there, and it was easier to parse and search content. People are constantly asking for old content and I'd love to post it in a manner that they can actually access it without going 8 pages deep.

Hell I'm even willing to transfer tournament reports onto the main page if that part of the site was better.

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Re: Tournament Menu Suggestions

Post by Darth_Link »

Agree that front page and forums should not be a separate thing.

The only times I ever visit the "homepage" is to find decklists.

Having a start menu on the front page which takes you to different parts of the site without "leaving it" is more preferrable than switching between pages/interfaces, and then keeping the same start menu at all times would be nice.

Scomp Link Access, Forums etc takes you away from the home page (and you have no menu or anything to keep navigating). I guess there is a good reason for all of this but I find it weird that you click on stuff like Store and you yet another page (SLA, Store, Forums all share this trait).

Having a forum where people hang out is very common in CCG and such games, so it's not something we do cause of legacy. FFG got a ton of forums for their games (some of them discontinued after 24 hours or whatever their life cycle is).

Or another example:
https://www.svenskamagic.com/ which is the Swedish mtg community got it like that, and I think it works really well (granted there is WAAAAY too much information on that landing page and the page is a bit hard to navigate at first, but the features are great). You log on at the front page (not by heading to the separate forums). The forums are linked on the page, but some content is only availabe after you log on (like we have it). You can access all menu items to the left regardless where you are. Logging on gives you access to the store as well, which would be another benefit of merging all parts.
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Darth_Link
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Re: Tournament Menu Suggestions

Post by Darth_Link »

This tie into the FB page discussion, we are for some reason content with doing the opposite of what most other similar organizations do. We separate everything on the web site where others merge, and we merge on FB where others separate.

https://www.trekcc.org/ is another good example
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Re: Tournament Menu Suggestions

Post by JediJer »

With the new version of the forums, it should be easier to do things like link to forum content from WordPress and vice versa.

What I don't want to do is just create menus that are links to specific forums. I would rather have the core content be posted in WordPress and then discussion about it happening on the forums.

With WordPress events, we could use it such that people could register for events through that, something you can't do on the forums. We should be able to also link it to the store, which we can't do now (main WordPress install and Store WP install are completely separate now but will no longer be when we release the new design).

There's a lot of things that we could do better, but it is going to require participation and cooperation from the community.

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Re: Tournament Menu Suggestions

Post by Gergall »

quickdraw3457 wrote:
August 20th, 2019, 11:05 am
arebelspy wrote:You're missing my point on working with.

Have the front page tie into the forums, not be a separate thing.
I agree that would be great, but I think technically speaking that's a lofty goal.
No, I don't believe we need any lofty, high-tech integrations. I'm sorry if this comes across as rude but I'm concerned that the PC is spending time and money doing things that probably won't pay off.

The links in the main menu just need to link to the appropriate subforums:

1. There should be a link called Major Events that links to viewforum.php?f=439
2. There should be a link called Local and Online Events that links to viewforum.php?f=442
3. Tournament Reports should link to viewforum.php?f=1040
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arebelspy
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Re: Tournament Menu Suggestions

Post by arebelspy »

JediJer wrote:I would rather have the core content be posted in WordPress and then discussion about it happening on the forums.
Yes. You've been wanting that since 2009ish?

My question is this.

Pretend a hypothetical situation where that will never happen.

Would you prefer an empty and desolate homepage that makes it look like the game is dead, or one that points to forum content and isn't in WordPress?

That's where we're at. And by not choosing you're defaulting to option one. Which is okay, if that's what you prefer. But that's where wishing people use WordPress instead of the forums gets us.

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Re: Tournament Menu Suggestions

Post by Gergall »

arebelspy wrote:sunk cost
Exactly. As I said in the 1st post:
Gergall wrote:
July 16th, 2019, 3:42 pm
As a software developer, I know that one of the most painful decisions is having to throw away a perfectly good piece of software.
I have worked on several big projects that worked great in theory but ultimately didn't get used much or at all. It hurts but you have to move on and use the solution that actually works in practice.
It's human nature to throw good money after bad. "I already wasted a ton of time/money on X, so now I need to keep investing in it to try to get it to work."

Fighting this instinct is difficult but worthwhile.
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Re: Tournament Menu Suggestions

Post by JediJer »

arebelspy wrote:
August 20th, 2019, 2:04 pm
JediJer wrote:I would rather have the core content be posted in WordPress and then discussion about it happening on the forums.
Yes. You've been wanting that since 2009ish?

My question is this.

Pretend a hypothetical situation where that will never happen.

Would you prefer an empty and desolate homepage that makes it look like the game is dead, or one that points to forum content and isn't in WordPress?

That's where we're at. And by not choosing you're defaulting to option one. Which is okay, if that's what you prefer. But that's where wishing people use WordPress instead of the forums gets us.
And what's wrong with trying to get people to stop using the forums exclusively and move on to something more modern?

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Re: Tournament Menu Suggestions

Post by arebelspy »

Nothing wrong with it.

I'm just asking at what point will you give it up and realize people aren't/won't do it? It's been a long time.

And if they won't do that, then you're left with the two choices I presented (more or less).

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Re: Tournament Menu Suggestions

Post by Throdo »

The main page simply can't replace the forums. The forums are open ended, have places for many kinds of content, etc. You want to discuss a certain card or deck? Make a post and ask a question. You want to know the rules better? Find out from an expert. Etc etc. Even with a couple places on the main page to mimic similar content, it just doesn't compare.

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Re: Tournament Menu Suggestions

Post by Darth_Link »

I'm confused why we would a) move away from the forums and b) replace the forums with something.

Why are we not interested in doing things like trek ccg do it? Everything in one place, simpler, more accessible.

It won't affect forum usage in any way. It will just make every other part of the PC site more accessible and way easier to navigate.
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Re: Tournament Menu Suggestions

Post by dorshe1 »

Darth_Link wrote:
August 21st, 2019, 6:09 am
I'm confused why we would a) move away from the forums and b) replace the forums with something.

Why are we not interested in doing things like trek ccg do it? Everything in one place, simpler, more accessible.

It won't affect forum usage in any way. It will just make every other part of the PC site more accessible and way easier to navigate.
Wait... the PC has a website?

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Thanks!
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Re: Tournament Menu Suggestions

Post by seitaer »

Would you prefer an empty and desolate homepage that makes it look like the game is dead, or one that points to forum content and isn't in WordPress?
And the new people returning to the game that constantly cannot find anything on the forum? Hell I can't find things on the forum sometimes that I know exist. The search is terrible, there are multiple sub sub forums, it's a bigger mess than the wordpress part of the main site.

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Re: Tournament Menu Suggestions

Post by Corran »

seitaer wrote:
August 21st, 2019, 9:16 am
Would you prefer an empty and desolate homepage that makes it look like the game is dead, or one that points to forum content and isn't in WordPress?
And the new people returning to the game that constantly cannot find anything on the forum? Hell I can't find things on the forum sometimes that I know exist. The search is terrible, there are multiple sub sub forums, it's a bigger mess than the wordpress part of the main site.
The search function is pretty bad, but if a new person was directed to the forums, at least they would know that there is an active community. Links to articles written in 2013 and defunct podcasts from 2017 suggest that the game is dead and the site is nothing more than a defunct fan site.
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Re: Tournament Menu Suggestions

Post by arebelspy »

seitaer wrote:
Would you prefer an empty and desolate homepage that makes it look like the game is dead, or one that points to forum content and isn't in WordPress?
And the new people returning to the game that constantly cannot find anything on the forum? Hell I can't find things on the forum sometimes that I know exist. The search is terrible, there are multiple sub sub forums, it's a bigger mess than the wordpress part of the main site.
Yeah. It's too bad the main page doesn't directly point to the content so you didn't have to dig around and find it.

See: Gergall's suggestion.

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Re: Tournament Menu Suggestions

Post by JediJer »

The new home page design will do a much better job of making it easier to get to content.

However, if the community isn't involved in making that part of our site active and keeping it alive, then it will fail.

You can build the most state of the art amusement park in the world, but if all the kids want to keep playing on their playground, the amusement park will fail.

I find it ironic that the community is bringing up the fact that the articles and other things outside of the forums are outdated. In order for those things to be up to date, then THE COMMUNITY HAS TO CONTRIBUTE TO IT.

We are trying to get things in one place, but I think Trek's site is all custom built. We don't have that luxury, as we don't have access to their system and with the exception of vkit and scomp link, everything we have is "off the shelf". It's different platforms and trying to get it all together isn't going to be easy (or may not even be possible in some cases).

Forums are great for interactive discussions. I'm not going to argue that. For less interactive content though, we should all be trying to contribute to keep those aspects alive and up to date as much as possible.

Want to post a TR, make a post in WordPress.
Want to write articles about decks (primers, deck tech type stuff, etc.), make a post in WordPress.
Want to put an event on the calendar, make a post in WordPress
Want to find the abbreviation guide, look in WordPress
Want to find the latest errata, look in WordPress
Want to find an event, look in WordPress
Want to find the latest set pdf, look in WordPress
Want to read about the design process from someone on D&D, look in WordPress

Yeah, all those things are done in the forums, but WordPress can do them just as well, and in some ways do it better.
What's easier when trying to see if there's any events going on on a particular weekend, looking through 20-30 topics in a forum or looking at a calendar?

WordPress can make it easier to find content than on the forums. If posts, articles, events, etc. are properly tagged, then finding them is a lot easier than finding them on the forum. You can search by category and find all decklist posts in wordpress by doing a category search for "decklist". If you tried to search the forums for "decklist" you would get so many unwanted posts and wouldn't easily find what you want.

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