Retro/Alternate Format Event on GEMP?

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stephengascrub
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Retro/Alternate Format Event on GEMP?

Post by stephengascrub »

So I also tried to start a discussion on Slack, but what retro/alternate event format would people like to see on GEMP?

My ideas would be:

Premiere-Cloud City (with shields)
Premiere-Jabba’s Palace (with shields)
Premiere-Special Edition (with or without shields)
Premiere-Endor (with or without shields)
Premiere-EJP (with or without shields)
Premiere-DSII (with or without shields)
Premiere-R2 (with or without shields)
Premiere-Tatooine (with or without shields)

Personally, my vote would be Premiere-EJP either with or without shields. That’s pretty much everything up to right before DSII. I think it’s a fun format with multiple options and hasn’t been done as a retro event yet.
Last edited by stephengascrub on July 9th, 2020, 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Retro Format Event on GEMP?

Post by Berm »

Premier - Death Star II (with shields)

I think there's a healthy P-DSII community which can have the opportunity to play in the retro event.

Premier - Death Star II is one of the biggest "limited" formats played on GEMP.
LS decks are generally MWYHL, Hidden Base, and Profit
DS decks are generally Hunt Down, MKOS, Court, and ISB

Hunt Down doesn't generally play anything that is impacted by the addition of shields, so it will probably be fairly strong. MKOS on the other hand would be hit by the non-unique shield, retrieval, and battle Order/Plan, but saved from Revolution and Sense/Alter.

I'd say LS tends to use shielded strategies more often than DS in this format, so it may be lopsided after shields are introduced but I haven't thought it through fully.

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Re: Retro/Alternate Format Event on GEMP?

Post by stephengascrub »

Thanks Berm. Even though it’s not truly a retro event with shields, it seems like there is definitely interest on slack for an event with that format.

You also have a good point, that Premiere-DSII has one of the strongest communities for formats besides Open.

I guess a good follow up question would be which one of these formats would get the most interest on GEMP with the right marketing/promotion?

A. Premiere-DS II (Shields)
B. Premiere-DS II (No Shields)

I looked at the numbers and there’s typically about 3 times as DSII format games compared to R2.
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Re: Retro/Alternate Format Event on GEMP?

Post by rhendon »

Could also go retro with the original starting effect too rather than always play all shields. That way the format still has that retro feel without so much of the NPE aspect.

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Re: Retro/Alternate Format Event on GEMP?

Post by stevetotheizz0 »

A ) Why would you need shields in a retro event?*

B ) If you include v-shields without good reason you are really missing your target audience here.

C ) Are the people this event is geared towards active on the forums or slack?


* I would personally argue that you may need a minimal number of shields in an EP 1 format, just because podracing, Senate and Combat are OP without and still playable with. (TTO can probably be included now as well.)

** I would also argue that the greatest appeal to me, and probably others here for a format like DS II is that Battle Order / Plan, Secret Plans, etc are not automatic as shields.

( With that said, I may be interested at some point in life in anything Endor and onwards.)

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Re: Retro/Alternate Format Event on GEMP?

Post by rhendon »

stevetotheizz0 wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 4:34 pm
A ) Why would you need shields in a retro event?*

* I would personally argue that you may need a minimal number of shields in an EP 1 format, just because podracing, Senate and Combat are OP without and still playable with. (TTO can probably be included now as well.)
My appeal is basically to limit what Desai posted in the variance thread about the stages of the game. There was a lot of dumb crap out there and it would be nice to curtail it while still having the feel of the old school format.

But that is just me.

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Re: Retro/Alternate Format Event on GEMP?

Post by stephengascrub »

1.) Yes, you’re right. Anything with shields outside of Premiere-R3 would be an alternate format, not a retro one.

2.) Why v-shields? Because it sounds like more well-known players would be interested in an event like this if there was a spin. People feel a lot of the more popular retro formats have been solved. I’m basing this off of limited conversations on slack and a few posts on the forums. However, that is my general feel.

3.) Who are we targeting? This is the million dollar question. Are we targeting the people who regularly play the format? People on slack? People who are playing open? I don’t know. But figuring that out is key.

In my opinion, if we just have a Premiere-DSII retro event online, we’re going to need to heavily promote it and offer relevant prizes. If we don’t, who is going to be interested besides the people regularly playing the format; and is that enough people?

However, I think you could make the argument for any retro event this would be the case.
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Re: Retro/Alternate Format Event on GEMP?

Post by Corran »

If you're targeting me, I'll play regardless, but I really like Battle Order, Secret Plans, Coward, Resistance, Firepower, and other shields that impact the fundamentals of the game. These(and shields that directly bullet abusive cards) encourage interaction and generally make the game feel like SWCCG was intended to feel(battles in multiple theaters).

Of course, if you're targeting folks who don't play V-Cards and/or shields, you're not going to attract them with a made up format, even if that format is awesome. Retro/Alternative format events may or may not attract returning players. I dunno, I think events should be for the people who play the game, but that's just my grumpy old man opinion.
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Re: Retro/Alternate Format Event on GEMP?

Post by Jnapolit31 »

Corran wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 5:32 pm
If you're targeting me, I'll play regardless, but I really like Battle Order, Secret Plans, Coward, Resistance, Firepower, and other shields that impact the fundamentals of the game. These(and shields that directly bullet abusive cards) encourage interaction and generally make the game feel like SWCCG was intended to feel(battles in multiple theaters).

Of course, if you're targeting folks who don't play V-Cards and/or shields, you're not going to attract them with a made up format, even if that format is awesome. Retro/Alternative format events may or may not attract returning players. I dunno, I think events should be for the people who play the game, but that's just my grumpy old man opinion.
Yeah, I agree with most of this. But I think the first of these types of events to happen should be clean and straightforward - a true retro event, not a retcon event.

With good marketing and good prize support, I think it should more so “target” NARPs, but hopefully some prestigious players join nonetheless. And in that case, you don’t want to go through the hurdles of adding Decipher shields & the shield mechanic AND virtual shields.

Hypothetically though, in a retcon PDS2 event, it’s tough to draw a clean line - I think the below would be best, i.e. the effect-shields everyone knows and mostly are main deck includes, with Simple Tricks being the one virtual shield with a strong case (but LS turtled more, so maybe not) -

4 pulls/game -
*Allegations / Tragedy
*Aim High / Secret Plans
*Battle Plan / Battle Order
*Coward / Simple Tricks (v) (?)
*DODN / TINT
*Wise / Opp Enf
*Resistance / Ultimatum
*Insight / YCHF


Honestly, i don’t think there’s a TON of legwork to run one of these events - maybe we have one and see how it goes in terms of turnout (still think P-DS2 - even though there are some awful strategies still and main deck counters suck - should be the starting point).
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Re: Retro/Alternate Format Event on GEMP?

Post by OrehRuoy »

Why not run a test event before a full sanctioned one. Like how Jawa cup was.

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Re: Retro/Alternate Format Event on GEMP?

Post by timeofyouppi »

Premiere-Endors appeals a lot more than Premiere-DS2 for me - the format lasted over a year in the Decipher Era (June 1999 to June 2000) with only the enhanced stuff in between. Premiere-DS2 format includes Jabba Palace Sealed Deck, which includes No Escape/Ounee Ta which cause autolosses for Ralltiir ops, Dantooine ops, and operatives (which were fine post-errata). Not sure how neccesary these were to tone down the TRM/2 diamond sites/nudjs start for LS though.

I could go either way on shields being programmed in, but I lean towards just having shields that ban the most NPE stuff like inserts.
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Re: Retro/Alternate Format Event on GEMP?

Post by Batmouse »

Y’all just let me know what ya settle on. I’ll td and set it up for you
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Re: Retro/Alternate Format Event on GEMP?

Post by Thekillerkiwi »

I personally prefer P-DS2 w/shields.

I played in the P-DS2 environment and frankly I enjoy new takes on things to keep things fresh. While I would still play in an old skool tournament, it doesn't excite me like trying to modify retro decks to work with shields.
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Re: Retro/Alternate Format Event on GEMP?

Post by stephengascrub »

I made a second poll on slack with the options:
-Premiere-Endor
-Premiere-DSII (with shields)
- Other

I don’t know what exactly is the best way to move forward, but if we want to have an event/league with one of those first two formats I’m in.

Hopefully someone more ambitious than me can talk to Batmouse sometime and get the ball rolling on this.

8>
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Re: Retro/Alternate Format Event on GEMP?

Post by Dark Deal Abuse »

I vote Prem-Ref2 without Shields. Retro SWCCG in its purest form......the best......right before Episode 1.
I ONLY play PREMIERE- REFLECTIONS II (no v-cards, no shields and most importantly no Episode 1)...would love to talk to others that play this format! :popcrn:

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Re: Retro/Alternate Format Event on GEMP?

Post by Corran »

Dark Deal Abuse wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 8:15 am
I vote Prem-Ref2 without Shields. Retro SWCCG in its purest form......the best......right before Episode 1.
Would you play in an event in a format you know but with shields?
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Re: Retro/Alternate Format Event on GEMP?

Post by Dark Deal Abuse »

I wouldn't but no need to worry about me

Corran wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 12:12 pm
Dark Deal Abuse wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 8:15 am
I vote Prem-Ref2 without Shields. Retro SWCCG in its purest form......the best......right before Episode 1.
Would you play in an event in a format you know but with shields?
I ONLY play PREMIERE- REFLECTIONS II (no v-cards, no shields and most importantly no Episode 1)...would love to talk to others that play this format! :popcrn:

Actively trying to build an old school SWCCG player base in Michigan. PM me if interested!

My Prem-Ref2 Cube is Complete!

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Re: Retro/Alternate Format Event on GEMP?

Post by arebelspy »


timeofyouppi wrote:Premiere-Endors appeals a lot more than Premiere-DS2 for me - the format lasted over a year in the Decipher Era (June 1999 to June 2000) with only the enhanced stuff in between. Premiere-DS2 format includes Jabba Palace Sealed Deck, which includes No Escape/Ounee Ta which cause autolosses for Ralltiir ops, Dantooine ops, and operatives (which were fine post-errata). Not sure how neccesary these were to tone down the TRM/2 diamond sites/nudjs start for LS though.

I could go either way on shields being programmed in, but I lean towards just having shields that ban the most NPE stuff like inserts.
What? Is that how it's set up on gemp?

That's wrong. P-ds ii should go through... DS II. JPSD came out after, and should not be included (and DCon 2k was through DS 2. JPSD prerelease event happened there, but it was not legal in the main event).

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Re: Retro/Alternate Format Event on GEMP?

Post by Dark Deal Abuse »

Yup, it is setup on GEMP like that - Prem- DS2 on GEMP includes JPSD which is incorrect as you have pointed out.

All the more reason why I believe Prem-Ref2 to be the best as it comes to original trilogy but this is just my opinion.

arebelspy wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 12:35 pm
timeofyouppi wrote:Premiere-Endors appeals a lot more than Premiere-DS2 for me - the format lasted over a year in the Decipher Era (June 1999 to June 2000) with only the enhanced stuff in between. Premiere-DS2 format includes Jabba Palace Sealed Deck, which includes No Escape/Ounee Ta which cause autolosses for Ralltiir ops, Dantooine ops, and operatives (which were fine post-errata). Not sure how neccesary these were to tone down the TRM/2 diamond sites/nudjs start for LS though.

I could go either way on shields being programmed in, but I lean towards just having shields that ban the most NPE stuff like inserts.
What? Is that how it's set up on gemp?

That's wrong. P-ds ii should go through... DS II. JPSD came out after, and should not be included (and DCon 2k was through DS 2. JPSD prerelease event happened there, but it was not legal in the main event).
I ONLY play PREMIERE- REFLECTIONS II (no v-cards, no shields and most importantly no Episode 1)...would love to talk to others that play this format! :popcrn:

Actively trying to build an old school SWCCG player base in Michigan. PM me if interested!

My Prem-Ref2 Cube is Complete!

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Re: Retro/Alternate Format Event on GEMP?

Post by arebelspy »


Dark Deal Abuse wrote:Yup, it is setup on GEMP like that - Prem- DS2 on GEMP includes JPSD which is incorrect as you have pointed out.

All the more reason why I believe Prem-Ref2 to be the best as it comes to original trilogy but this is just my opinion.

arebelspy wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 12:35 pm
timeofyouppi wrote:Premiere-Endors appeals a lot more than Premiere-DS2 for me - the format lasted over a year in the Decipher Era (June 1999 to June 2000) with only the enhanced stuff in between. Premiere-DS2 format includes Jabba Palace Sealed Deck, which includes No Escape/Ounee Ta which cause autolosses for Ralltiir ops, Dantooine ops, and operatives (which were fine post-errata). Not sure how neccesary these were to tone down the TRM/2 diamond sites/nudjs start for LS though.

I could go either way on shields being programmed in, but I lean towards just having shields that ban the most NPE stuff like inserts.
What? Is that how it's set up on gemp?

That's wrong. P-ds ii should go through... DS II. JPSD came out after, and should not be included (and DCon 2k was through DS 2. JPSD prerelease event happened there, but it was not legal in the main event).
Well that's inaccurate on both a logical level (p-ds2 including a set that came out several months after ds2) and historical (JPSD not being allowed in the p-ds2 environment, specifically worlds 2k).

I'm betting an error when Troy set it up. Maybe he didn't quite recall the release dates or something?
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