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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Posted: September 30th, 2020, 7:53 pm
by Hazardville
rhendon wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 11:37 am
Hazardville wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 9:50 pm
Saladas wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 7:30 pm
Therion wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 7:21 pm
rhendon wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 3:38 pm
Feels like LS does more direct damage than DS decks currently (which is wrong and weird).
On that note, why are the top retrieval platforms DS? CCT and Court will retrieve more cards in a turn than some LS decks will in an entire game.
do u really want design's mentality going forward to be "ls doesnt have enough retrieval"
I mean, if the logical continuation of this is not "LS doesn't have enough retrieval" and is instead "DS has too much retrieval" and that leads down the path of killing the card Scum and Villainy and Imperial Enforcement, I'm down for that.
I don't think we need to go down that road. We can say though that DS has more retrieval now than before, post reset. It might have had more pre-reset at some point.

DS should be about direct damage. LS should be retrieval. This was part of the beauty of the game design by Decipher. DS is about causing force damage and LS is about healing it. Swapping that is causing an imbalance to the force, if you will.
But, the only virtual card that's really at fault there is Imperial Enforcement (since AAAv is getting blanked). An argument can be made for Imperial Entanglements, although that's not as prevalent in the meta at the moment.

Scum and Villainy and My Favorite Decoration are Decipher cards. Virtual cards have maybe made them easier to access, but Decipher is responsible for those retrieval avenues in the first place. Ditto for ISB Operations.

Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Posted: October 1st, 2020, 9:10 am
by Corran
I like scum a lot. Maybe there are a few too many good aliens, but retrieval is what makes scrub decks stand a chance against mains. I also don’t have a problem with light side direct damage as long as it feels thematic.

Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Posted: October 1st, 2020, 10:06 am
by rhendon
Hazardville wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 7:53 pm
rhendon wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 11:37 am
I don't think we need to go down that road. We can say though that DS has more retrieval now than before, post reset. It might have had more pre-reset at some point.

DS should be about direct damage. LS should be retrieval. This was part of the beauty of the game design by Decipher. DS is about causing force damage and LS is about healing it. Swapping that is causing an imbalance to the force, if you will.
But, the only virtual card that's really at fault there is Imperial Enforcement (since AAAv is getting blanked). An argument can be made for Imperial Entanglements, although that's not as prevalent in the meta at the moment.

Scum and Villainy and My Favorite Decoration are Decipher cards. Virtual cards have maybe made them easier to access, but Decipher is responsible for those retrieval avenues in the first place. Ditto for ISB Operations.
True but increasing the ability to play those decks increase the retrieval part. DS also has gotten cards like Aphra, Haven, etc that retrieve as well. These are big boons to decks that already have retrieval built in. So it just adds to it. When DS is consisting of CCT scum, Court scum and ISB as the top decks, there isn't a deck there for DS that doesn't have steady retrieval. Compare that to metas of TTO, and HD on top or HD, LSC from way back in early days of PC. It does make a difference and change how people play and what people play.

Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Posted: October 1st, 2020, 11:17 am
by Hazardville
rhendon wrote:
Hazardville wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 7:53 pm
rhendon wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 11:37 am
I don't think we need to go down that road. We can say though that DS has more retrieval now than before, post reset. It might have had more pre-reset at some point.

DS should be about direct damage. LS should be retrieval. This was part of the beauty of the game design by Decipher. DS is about causing force damage and LS is about healing it. Swapping that is causing an imbalance to the force, if you will.
But, the only virtual card that's really at fault there is Imperial Enforcement (since AAAv is getting blanked). An argument can be made for Imperial Entanglements, although that's not as prevalent in the meta at the moment.

Scum and Villainy and My Favorite Decoration are Decipher cards. Virtual cards have maybe made them easier to access, but Decipher is responsible for those retrieval avenues in the first place. Ditto for ISB Operations.
True but increasing the ability to play those decks increase the retrieval part. DS also has gotten cards like Aphra, Haven, etc that retrieve as well. These are big boons to decks that already have retrieval built in. So it just adds to it. When DS is consisting of CCT scum, Court scum and ISB as the top decks, there isn't a deck there for DS that doesn't have steady retrieval. Compare that to metas of TTO, and HD on top or HD, LSC from way back in early days of PC. It does make a difference and change how people play and what people play.
The increased incidence of one-off retrieval pieces certainly contributes, but it still feels like there’s a clear real culprit. Maybe changing Enforcement to require controlling locations (rather than occupying) or needing to actually be on more locations than opponent instead of not being on less (sounds semantic but it would require one more) would be enough to avoid blanking it completely? Maybe it could be changed to not stack with ISB?

Scum is harder since it’s a Decipher card, but I think there is a solution that rests in the supporting V cards.

Jabba the Hutt V
“...May deploy from reserve set-X Scum and Villainy.”

Despair V
“...non-set-X Scum and Villainy is cancelled.”

Then we have to virtualize Scum. What exactly that would do is a whole other question. We could retain some of the retrieval but tone it down, or something else entirely? But if too much DS retrieval is the problem, there are ways to solve it.


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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Posted: October 16th, 2020, 12:29 am
by Clayton Atkin
arebelspy wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 7:56 pm
TacoBill wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 7:45 pm
Edited to include Wokling change.
What in the flying f.

WHY?? :noshake: :noshake: :noshake:

TRM becomes unplayable.

From someone who is not in any inner circles of knowledge, this is what it looks like from an outside perspective:
Let's remove lmfbm so only hitco can play it.. next wokling.. force everyone to hitco! :(

next thing you know they'll give hitco helpers in v13.
Joe the Prophet!

I've been scarce on the boards lately, and have only checked in occasionally to see if there were any V13 spoilers. So I missed this discussion all together.

I just found out earlier this evening (after reading through the V13 spoilers) that Wokling-V was nerfed, which led me here. So, I'm probably a little to late coming to the party to say "WTF!?"

Not a fan of this decision.

Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Posted: October 16th, 2020, 12:57 am
by arebelspy
It's okay, hitco's baller now. TRM was near the top a long time.