Set 13 Full Spoiler List

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seitaer
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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by seitaer »

Lets just feel good that no matter what we do, we haven't screwed things up as badly as Magic has in 2020.

I feel like a lot of people in this topic with strong opinions should join playtesting, just saying.



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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by Mando »

So we wanted to have a different platform to fill the “mains” void and HITCO (which goes second, starts a battleground and has some character restrictions) seems like a much more “fair” platform than TRM.
I really like these changes for all of these reasons. TRM is un-thematic and it cheats by breaking the basic rules of the game. I applaud D&D for their efforts to slay this sacred cow.

LS mains is good. Thematic LS mains is great. All the best characters in the game that are smushed together in a deck that cheats...not so much.

Well done sirs. And thank you to all the volunteers that made this great new set happen!

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by Blarg »

chriskelly wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 1:42 pm
(basically swapping out the wesa package for better and more thematic places and interrupts)
Am I missing something? You and Desai keep talking about swapping out the Wesa package, but HITCO can easily play both Wesa and Twilight Is Upon Me.
chriskelly wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 10:12 am
WiseMarsellus wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 8:07 am
alternatively, han v could work while at kessel v only, or something along those lines. my thought is mainly that wys needs to have an independent reason to play kessel v even in games where they know their kessel run cannot be canceled. otherwise i expect it will just do kessel nonv
I think we are okay with that deck building choice. If a player thinks they can get away with the old Kessel because they will avoid Oo-ta and then they get blown out by it, I agree that is a feel bad moment. But if they make that choice and get blown out by Alter (v), I really have a hard time believing that they should feel shocked, upset or surprised that their non-[A] effect got canceled by Alter during the course of an event.

We are also trying to avoid the “stacking” meta and stacking Kessel for drain 3 and cantina for drain 2 with high forfeit guys (and a whole
Slew of new dudes with cool text) played into our decision to not let Kessel be a drain of 3.
Say 5% of DS decks play Alter v (I think it is probably much less than this), maybe 70% of the time they'll be able to find Alter v in time to cancel Kessel Run. Let's say every time that happens it instantly wins DS the game. LS was going to lose half those games anyway, so they lose about an extra 2% of games to Alter v. If the drain +1 from Kessel increases the win percentage of LS by more than 2% then they should play Kessel non-v. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case, because an additional damage from the system you're building your deck around controlling is a pretty big deal.

It's not really an interesting deckbuilding choice, and it just generates feel-bad moments. It's horrible game design. It is also easily fixable -- just make Kessel Run deploy on Kessel v.

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by WiseMarsellus »

that is essentially my analysis. it does feel bad punishing a player for playing correctly. and it doesn't really help to say, "well, if you had just played incorrectly, you wouldn't have this problem"
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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by chriskelly »

I guess I just don’t view “letting your non-immune to alter effect get altered” as playing correctly. Again, oo-ta blow out I agree with you. But Alter? That’s a card you should always be wary of. It’s Alter.

And there was a version made specifically to be playable against WYS.

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by chriskelly »

@MHT - the final version of twilight won’t let you play e1 sites. An early version in testing did that and then it was dropped but based on some points here we are still fiddling with it. But as of now, that line went back on. So wesa package is definitely out (and there was much rejoicing!).

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by lord bane »

Would that cause any conflict (coding wise) since the JCC is an ep1 location and starts with the objective?

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by SmallDarkLines »

lord bane wrote:
October 19th, 2020, 12:29 pm
Would that cause any conflict (coding wise) since the JCC is an ep1 location and starts with the objective?
The objective does all its stuff first, then the starting interrupt completes - Twilight won't care about what's already on the table, just what gets played from that point on. There have been some other cards that work the same way, so it should be fine.
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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by Gergall »

chriskelly wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 5:22 pm
Drats. I was hoping the Lando bail out text was going to be “omg crazy cool theme” for the set.
The Lando escape originally was my favorite thematic text of the set (I had posted a comment about this in proofing also, on Sept 3 in the Lando thread):
Gergall wrote:Just realized that the return Lando to hand function is a reference to the part in Solo when he just flies away and abandons everyone :lol:
However this has indeed been overtaken by the Cancel a Hologram which isn't merely my favorite of the set but one of my all-time favorites, for how sort, sweet, and on-point it is, all while being just the right amount of useful.
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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by Blarg »

chriskelly wrote:
October 19th, 2020, 9:55 am
@MHT - the final version of twilight won’t let you play e1 sites. An early version in testing did that and then it was dropped but based on some points here we are still fiddling with it. But as of now, that line went back on. So wesa package is definitely out (and there was much rejoicing!).
Ah ok, the version posted here doesn't have that line. Good change!
chriskelly wrote:
October 19th, 2020, 9:54 am
I guess I just don’t view “letting your non-immune to alter effect get altered” as playing correctly. Again, oo-ta blow out I agree with you. But Alter? That’s a card you should always be wary of. It’s Alter.

And there was a version made specifically to be playable against WYS.
LS is going to be completely aware of the fact that they lose the game to Alter -- It's not like they're not being surprised by it. They're just making the correct play to go for the force drain +1, which will win them more games, over the protection from Alter.

Why don't you think it is playing correctly to use non-v Kessel? What do you think the chances are of DS running Alter, drawing it while Kessel Run is out, and LS not having a Control (which WYS often runs 2 of)? What do you think is the decrease in win percentage due to this? And what do you think the increase in win percentage of having the force drain +1 is?

Maybe as a thought experiment, imagine that non-v Kessel said drain +3. Then LS would definitely play non-v Kessel, and you definitely couldn't fault LS when their Kessel run got canceled. The only question is whether drain +1 is enough to be worth allowing Kessel Run to be cancelled.

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by lord bane »

I would think now dark side would put at least one copy in for most deck. Especially for new HD v where Vader or emp will be on table, or ASM with dooku and maul. Could also see it popping up in crimson dawn with maul on table early as well.

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by arebelspy »

If only wys was already playing like 3x of an interrupt they can play from lost that cancels alter (along with its normal OP use of FP pulls and drain canceling). ;)

That being said, I agree with Tom and MHT in theory, and as to this:
chriskelly wrote:I guess I just don’t view “letting your non-immune to alter effect get altered” as playing correctly. Again, oo-ta blow out I agree with you. But Alter? That’s a card you should always be wary of. It’s Alter.

And there was a version made specifically to be playable against WYS.
Change "playing correctly" to "deck building correctly" where correctly is defined as maximizing your win probability in the tournament, and you have Tom's point.

Oota is a dumb blowout for it, but alter just makes you hold control.

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by JarJarDrinks »

Blarg wrote:
October 19th, 2020, 8:13 am
It is also easily fixable -- just make Kessel Run deploy on Kessel v.
This would allow DS to play their kessel and it would then be an invalid target and be canceled
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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by fungineer »

Yeah, if people really need it to be uncancelable, it should be an epic event. Otherwise, go as design intends and hope for the best.
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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by Blarg »

arebelspy wrote:
October 19th, 2020, 9:38 pm
If only wys was already playing like 3x of an interrupt they can play from lost that cancels alter (along with its normal OP use of FP pulls and drain canceling). ;)
I did mention this, and it actually in some sense makes the situation worse, because it lowers the chance of Kessel Run being cancelled, thus increasing the usefulness of Kessel non-v over Kessel v -- but it is still possible that DS draws Alter and LS doesn't draw control. Also how often is it even the correct play to hold Control on the off-chance that your opponent has Alter?
JarJarDrinks wrote:
October 19th, 2020, 10:39 pm
Blarg wrote:
October 19th, 2020, 8:13 am
It is also easily fixable -- just make Kessel Run deploy on Kessel v.
This would allow DS to play their kessel and it would then be an invalid target and be canceled
True... which also means they could play their Kessel and Alter / Oota-goota it, though that is not very likely.

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by aermet69 »

Is there a tentative date for the pdf?

Just trying to see if I can fit it in with using the workprinter :)
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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by solomon »

I feel like the new qui gon is kinda impractical because very rarely will you want a jedi just sitting there alone. Especially with characters like cad bane to come down and cancel his immunity to attrition

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by chrknudsen »

You can use him alone offensively if you fear a Cad Bane coming down. But I have Jedi sitting alone all the time, so I'm not really sure he's 'impractical'.

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by solomon »

I gotcha. In my experience, stacking a lot of cards on a single dude holding down a site (meditation, a lightsaber, luke's bionic hand, whatever) only to have him die from a simple game text blanking (cad bane, 4-lom, or FN) just seems like a poor strategy. That being said, I see what you're saying in terms of using him offensively.

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by AdmiralMotti89 »

Imperial Code Cylinder (V)
[Premiere - C2]
DARK - INTERRUPT - USED INTERRUPT
Text: /\ Krennic or a non-spy captain. OR Peek at the bottom card of any deck or pile. OR During the power segment of a battle, if your captain in battle with your leader, cancel one destiny just drawn (except a battle destiny).
This might be my favorite card of the set, I have been interested more rank-specific cards (we already have commander and Admiral/General stuff), and this is a nice expansion into having different specific bonuses for each rank.
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