Set 13 Full Spoiler List

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chriskelly
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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by chriskelly »

Visage is another card we are tweaking so it will have a way to get it off the table if as a LS player you for sure don’t want to deal with it.



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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by chriskelly »

And thanks again for the feedback here everyone!!! We’ve tweaked some cards already and are getting good ideas for future ones.

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by Therion »

chriskelly wrote:
October 22nd, 2020, 12:57 pm
Visage is another card we are tweaking so it will have a way to get it off the table if as a LS player you for sure don’t want to deal with it.
Seeing as how HDv has great character mobility between the Castle and other sites (probe droids and Vader), it seemed odd that they shouldn't have to fight over it to maintain Visage. HD has a much harder time with stranding characters at non-battlegrounds than HDv will.
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October 22nd, 2020, 11:44 am
•Visage Of The Emperor (V) Obvi good for HD but we may see Vader's Caste SSA run multiple copies of this, phantom menace, mauls ship, masterful moves, Image of the dark lord, lots of juicy 6s-7s floating around.
Given both the presumption that Inquisitors will be popular in non-HDv decks and the relative popularity of KDYv used to pull just Mustafar and the castle, will floating a copy or two of this in those decks along with some Masterful Move and/or combo be popular? No drain bonuses with the JCC on table so I'm guessing no, but it's a fun concept and 7s are nice.

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by chrknudsen »

I really hope the Visage tweak isn't just bringing over the 'Effect canceled if opponent controls this site' from the non-v version. Having to guard that site would be one of the worst aspects of HD. Hopefully it'll be something like if dark side has no Vader or Inquisitors at battlegrounds and light side occupies the Castle, they can pay 3 Force to cancel it. That'll prevent the fight from focusing too much on the Castle.

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by Shadow 13 »

chrknudsen2 wrote:
October 22nd, 2020, 2:36 pm
I really hope the Visage tweak isn't just bringing over the 'Effect canceled if opponent controls this site' from the non-v version. Having to guard that site would be one of the worst aspects of HD. Hopefully it'll be something like if dark side has no Vader or Inquisitors at battlegrounds and light side occupies the Castle, they can pay 3 Force to cancel it. That'll prevent the fight from focusing too much on the Castle.
i'm hoping it's a simple "Place in Used Pile if canceled"
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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by AdmiralHarkov »

I had been cooking up some dream cards in my head before this spoiler list was released and they were very similar to what the PC came up with. My idea was for a virtual Yoda's Hut that HITCO can pull that allows Luke to move around to another battleground once per game, kind of like how he visits Yoda there and then goes off to face Vader in the movies.

Yoda's Hut (V): (Dream card)
LS: Twice per game during your move phase while Luke at a site you control, Luke may move between here and any site.
DS: No force drains here. Luke may not move from here except to a battleground site occupied by your character of ability >4.

I was imagining a new Yoda there who hangs out on Dagobah and can suicide at some point to do something cool kind of like Last Jedi Luke. Instead we got a new teleporting battling Yoda who seems super useful for HITCO fights. Gift of the Mentor, Jedi Presence, and possibly even Are You Brain Dead all look strong to me. Guaranteeing that Yoda will get on table is huge for all those helper cards.

I agree that HITCO was much weaker than TRM and needed a boost. But I am a bit wary that Anakin Skywalker interrupt seems a bit too useful. I would take away the ability to cancel gametext. It seems so strong that the Dark Side will be forced to grab it, possibly encouraging more abuse of other used interrupts like RITC. I do really like how it puts Luke's Lightsaber in used pile though.

Regarding Twilight Is Upon Me (V), immediate +1 and -1 seems possibly too good. Or possibly worthless if an early battle develops; in many of my games Prophecy never even leaves the JCC because there's just a huge fight at Audience Chamber or somewhere before anyone drains.
It feels like if you happen to get Luke and Anakin Skywalker(V) in your hand in the right matchup to immediately move Prophecy, you can do some serious activation/force choke in the right matchup. I would change the +1/-1 to "Once per game during your move phase my relocate Prophecy to Luke's site. While Luke with Prophecy, light side may activate 1 force during opponent's turn" I.e. something more certain to happen early but also weaker than +1/-1

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by Hazardville »

AdmiralHarkov wrote:
October 22nd, 2020, 5:49 pm
I had been cooking up some dream cards in my head before this spoiler list was released and they were very similar to what the PC came up with. My idea was for a virtual Yoda's Hut that HITCO can pull that allows Luke to move around to another battleground once per game, kind of like how he visits Yoda there and then goes off to face Vader in the movies.

Yoda's Hut (V): (Dream card)
LS: Twice per game during your move phase while Luke at a site you control, Luke may move between here and any site.
DS: No force drains here. Luke may not move from here except to a battleground site occupied by your character of ability >4.

I was imagining a new Yoda there who hangs out on Dagobah and can suicide at some point to do something cool kind of like Last Jedi Luke. Instead we got a new teleporting battling Yoda who seems super useful for HITCO fights. Gift of the Mentor, Jedi Presence, and possibly even Are You Brain Dead all look strong to me. Guaranteeing that Yoda will get on table is huge for all those helper cards.

I agree that HITCO was much weaker than TRM and needed a boost. But I am a bit wary that Anakin Skywalker interrupt seems a bit too useful. I would take away the ability to cancel gametext. It seems so strong that the Dark Side will be forced to grab it, possibly encouraging more abuse of other used interrupts like RITC. I do really like how it puts Luke's Lightsaber in used pile though.

Regarding Twilight Is Upon Me (V), immediate +1 and -1 seems possibly too good. Or possibly worthless if an early battle develops; in many of my games Prophecy never even leaves the JCC because there's just a huge fight at Audience Chamber or somewhere before anyone drains.
It feels like if you happen to get Luke and Anakin Skywalker(V) in your hand in the right matchup to immediately move Prophecy, you can do some serious activation/force choke in the right matchup. I would change the +1/-1 to "Once per game during your move phase my relocate Prophecy to Luke's site. While Luke with Prophecy, light side may activate 1 force during opponent's turn" I.e. something more certain to happen early but also weaker than +1/-1
It's worth pointing out that Twilight doesn't really Force choke an opponent. The -1 just offsets the +1 granted by Prophecy adding an icon at its site, so DS still gets to activate however much they built their deck to activate in the first place, plus the 1 from the Endor battleground site, possibly more if LS played the DS2 site. They even get a "reward" of +1 activation when they kill Luke. I guess the exception would be if Luke was parked with Prophecy at a non-battleground, but I'm pretty sure DS would be fine with losing 1 activation in that situation.
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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by Saladas »

AdmiralHarkov wrote:
October 22nd, 2020, 5:49 pm
I had been cooking up some dream cards in my head before this spoiler list was released and they were very similar to what the PC came up with. My idea was for a virtual Yoda's Hut that HITCO can pull that allows Luke to move around to another battleground once per game, kind of like how he visits Yoda there and then goes off to face Vader in the movies.

Yoda's Hut (V): (Dream card)
LS: Twice per game during your move phase while Luke at a site you control, Luke may move between here and any site.
DS: No force drains here. Luke may not move from here except to a battleground site occupied by your character of ability >4.

I was imagining a new Yoda there who hangs out on Dagobah and can suicide at some point to do something cool kind of like Last Jedi Luke. Instead we got a new teleporting battling Yoda who seems super useful for HITCO fights. Gift of the Mentor, Jedi Presence, and possibly even Are You Brain Dead all look strong to me. Guaranteeing that Yoda will get on table is huge for all those helper cards.

I agree that HITCO was much weaker than TRM and needed a boost. But I am a bit wary that Anakin Skywalker interrupt seems a bit too useful. I would take away the ability to cancel gametext. It seems so strong that the Dark Side will be forced to grab it, possibly encouraging more abuse of other used interrupts like RITC. I do really like how it puts Luke's Lightsaber in used pile though.

Regarding Twilight Is Upon Me (V), immediate +1 and -1 seems possibly too good. Or possibly worthless if an early battle develops; in many of my games Prophecy never even leaves the JCC because there's just a huge fight at Audience Chamber or somewhere before anyone drains.
It feels like if you happen to get Luke and Anakin Skywalker(V) in your hand in the right matchup to immediately move Prophecy, you can do some serious activation/force choke in the right matchup. I would change the +1/-1 to "Once per game during your move phase my relocate Prophecy to Luke's site. While Luke with Prophecy, light side may activate 1 force during opponent's turn" I.e. something more certain to happen early but also weaker than +1/-1
there's no way an interrupt that good should be destiny 4. i also agree it does too much.

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by alphabeta »

AdmiralHarkov wrote:
October 22nd, 2020, 5:49 pm
I had been cooking up some dream cards in my head before this spoiler list was released and they were very similar to what the PC came up with. My idea was for a virtual Yoda's Hut that HITCO can pull that allows Luke to move around to another battleground once per game, kind of like how he visits Yoda there and then goes off to face Vader in the movies.

Yoda's Hut (V): (Dream card)
LS: Twice per game during your move phase while Luke at a site you control, Luke may move between here and any site.
DS: No force drains here. Luke may not move from here except to a battleground site occupied by your character of ability >4.

I was imagining a new Yoda there who hangs out on Dagobah and can suicide at some point to do something cool kind of like Last Jedi Luke. Instead we got a new teleporting battling Yoda who seems super useful for HITCO fights. Gift of the Mentor, Jedi Presence, and possibly even Are You Brain Dead all look strong to me. Guaranteeing that Yoda will get on table is huge for all those helper cards.

I agree that HITCO was much weaker than TRM and needed a boost. But I am a bit wary that Anakin Skywalker interrupt seems a bit too useful. I would take away the ability to cancel gametext. It seems so strong that the Dark Side will be forced to grab it, possibly encouraging more abuse of other used interrupts like RITC. I do really like how it puts Luke's Lightsaber in used pile though.

Regarding Twilight Is Upon Me (V), immediate +1 and -1 seems possibly too good. Or possibly worthless if an early battle develops; in many of my games Prophecy never even leaves the JCC because there's just a huge fight at Audience Chamber or somewhere before anyone drains.
It feels like if you happen to get Luke and Anakin Skywalker(V) in your hand in the right matchup to immediately move Prophecy, you can do some serious activation/force choke in the right matchup. I would change the +1/-1 to "Once per game during your move phase my relocate Prophecy to Luke's site. While Luke with Prophecy, light side may activate 1 force during opponent's turn" I.e. something more certain to happen early but also weaker than +1/-1
It does, but you can play the interrupt after having used the saber to slay a character... if the text had been "if a battle was just initiated" then ok, there would be a significant alternative cost to play that interrupt. As is you seem to get the cake and eat it.

All in all I trust playtesting has shown the card isnt as much OP as it seems - but yeah it seems to do too much at first hand :)

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by FlorisV »

I've had a long discussion with SW CCG buddies online via video chat and while we find the set exciting and interesting, we discussed some major problems and here's my take on them:

-Hunt Down V does too much, cancelling all drain bonuses ruins Yops and EBO. Also the hatred cards are too easily stacked because of Visage and grant too large a bonus of +2 to total BD. And then there's the +2 for all Inquisitor destinies, who already have a decent destiny on their own mostly. Looks like an auto-kill against everything. I'd remove the bonuse cancelling and limit the bonus to +1 and for Hatred cards only.

-Dathomir: Maul's Chamber should be at least slightly more of a liability. Characters could be deploy +2 there, but spies other than Ezra should be able to deploy to the Maul site and LS should be abtle to drain there.

-Twilight is upon me v is too strong as well, kind of arranging a double twix that can be set up very quickly via Anakin Skywalker v. Luke at Ewok Village makes it very easy to get the twix effect (+1,-1) of Prophecy going. I'd remove the +1/-1 Prophecy activation and keep the site pulling once per turn.

-Too many drain -1 sites with barely effective possibilities to get a +1 drain instead, because the characters that do are either scarce, easy to kill or both. Just make these sites more of a liability just like the Black Sun sites.
Last edited by FlorisV on October 24th, 2020, 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by Jedicon »

FlorisV wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 6:56 pm
I've had a long discussion with SW CCG buddies online via video chat and while we find the set exciting and interesting, we discussed some major problems and here's my take on them:

-Hunt Down V does too much, cancelling all drain bonuses ruins Yops and EBO. Also the hatred cards are too easily stacked because of Visage and grant too large a bonus of +2 to total BD. And then there's the +2 for all Inquisitor destinies, who already have a decent destiny on their own mostly. Looks like an auto-kill against everything. I'd remove the bonuse cancelling and limit the bonus to +1 and for Hatred cards only.

-Dathomir: Maul's Chamber should be at least slightly more of a liability. Characters should be deploy +2 there, but spies other than Ezra should be able to deploy to the Maul site and LS should be abtle to drain there.

-Twilight is upon me v is too strong as well, kind of arranging a double twix that can be set up very quickly via Anakin Skywalker v. Luke at Ewok Village makes it very easy to get the twix effect (+1,-1) of Prophecy going. I'd remove the +1/-1 Prophecy activation and keep the site pulling once per turn.

-Too many drain -1 sites with barely effective possibilities to get a +1 drain instead, because the characters that do are either scarce, easy to kill or both. Just make these sites more of a liability just like the Black Sun sites.
LS can drain at Maul's Chambers.

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by seitaer »

Luke in Speeder still flips Huntdown

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by alphabeta »

The MKOS thread has brought up that topic which I think is worth mentioning here.

Isnt the Help Me Obi combo doing too much?

Help me v saw limited use because its game text wasnt that ubiquitous - which is fine, because excluding characters from battle shouldnt be that easy I suppose. And I reckon it was developed as an answer to MAP and the overuse of FN-2003, now much less prevalent.

But now we have the rather powerful excluding text embedded in a card that does much more, with a higher destiny, and is accessible to smugglers as well (since when can smugglers exclude others from battle like a Jedi does? To the very least Id have expected the smuggler also to be excluded).

This combo card makes help me obi v completely useless. If popular (I bet it will be given everything it does), this card will be one more threat to invasion and decks that run droids - without any possibility for DS to counter the exclusion besides sense.

I'd rather see the combo card exclude only characters of ability =1. This would leave a choice to deckbuilders as to whether Help me V should rather be picked.

And Im pretty sure the combo card would be popular without any exclusion text too... hence the initial question 😀

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by SmallDarkLines »

alphabeta wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 3:40 am
The MKOS thread has brought up that topic which I think is worth mentioning here.

Isnt the Help Me Obi combo doing too much?

Help me v saw limited use because its game text wasnt that ubiquitous - which is fine, because excluding characters from battle shouldnt be that easy I suppose. And I reckon it was developed as an answer to MAP and the overuse of FN-2003, now much less prevalent.

But now we have the rather powerful excluding text embedded in a card that does much more, with a higher destiny, and is accessible to smugglers as well (since when can smugglers exclude others from battle like a Jedi does? To the very least Id have expected the smuggler also to be excluded).

This combo card makes help me obi v completely useless. If popular (I bet it will be given everything it does), this card will be one more threat to invasion and decks that run droids - without any possibility for DS to counter the exclusion besides sense.

I'd rather see the combo card exclude only characters of ability =1. This would leave a choice to deckbuilders as to whether Help me V should rather be picked.

And Im pretty sure the combo card would be popular without any exclusion text too... hence the initial question 😀
There’s another factor - the original version was a player card, I’d guess the player creator had input into this design and doesn’t mind the combo making the other one less likely to be played.
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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by FlorisV »

seitaer wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 9:03 pm
Luke in Speeder still flips Huntdown
I don't think he''ll live long against a deck that can easily add 2 to total battle destiny and even draws a 4 if it draws an Inquisitor (most are destiny 2). Immunity < 6 won't cut it.

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by FlorisV »

Jedicon wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 8:52 pm
LS can drain at Maul's Chambers.
Misread it, thanks! DS can't drain there, that's fine of course. But the only way to get there is Ezra or Nabrun, Spaceport Docking bay aside.

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by chriskelly »

Tagging Guri and Greedo were intentional targets for the QAM combo. Guri in space is a very difficult card to crack in this meta.

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by Tarelion »

chriskelly wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 8:21 am
Tagging Guri and Greedo were intentional targets for the QAM combo. Guri in space is a very difficult card to crack in this meta.
If that was the intended target, then why not say "except [presence] droids"? I realize text space limits and all, but that just adds weight to the argument that this card does too much.

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by chriskelly »

Those were not the ONLY intended targets, I was just explaining why it was not ability = 1.

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Re: Set 13 Full Spoiler List

Post by Therion »

While I recognize that the competitiveness of Invasion has/will never really be a design priority, is it too much to ask that we avoid nailing it with the same bullets as tier 1 decks? I realize this was basically the same discussion that was had over the Effective Repairs combo (and that explicitly included Invasion), but it feels like the droid builds of Invasion have taken a lot of unwarranted fire in new releases and have only been given the E1 mains help in compensation.

EDIT: Looking back, I should be fair - Invasion has gotten a lot of space helpers that it needs pretty desperately.

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