Who's the Beatdown?

SWCCG game play discussion.
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DS-61-4
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Who's the Beatdown?

Post by DS-61-4 »

I occasionally see this MTG article (https://articles.starcitygames.com/prem ... -beatdown/) offered as good strategy advice to NARPs since supposedly it also applies well to our game. Considering that it is loaded with MTG jargon and examples using specific MTG cards, the important points are completely lost on me. Would anyone be willing to provide some sort of translation into our language?



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Re: Who's the Beatdown?

Post by Death Star »

Its talking about determining if you should play actively or reactively, aka set up your own gameplan or try to disrupt your opponents gameplan.

For example if you are playing a LS mains deck with very few battlegrounds (old TRM or new Hitco), your normal gameplan is to give as few activation to your opponent as possible and disrupt what your opponent is doing. But you have a pullable battleground site (Wesa for Naboo:Battle Plains or Anakin Skywalker-v for the new DS2 site) where you can setup a drain of your own and an important aspect of those decks is deciding if and when to play this site.

Or you may a have a matchup of 2 decks that want to set up at their own locations and have the opponent come to you (say for example QMC vs. IE). One of the players will have to realize he cant win that way and has to attack the opponent at his locations, despite its not being his regular gameplan.

And I agree that this is an important skill to have.
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Re: Who's the Beatdown?

Post by Corran »

For me it comes down to “If nobody deploys any cards for the rest of the game, who wins?” If I satisfy BP and am doing 5 damage per turn and my opponent is paying to drain 4 per turn, I probably should think twice before overdevelopment or invading their locations. They should be thinking about what they can do to actively disrupt the game state.
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Re: Who's the Beatdown?

Post by arebelspy »

DS-61-4 wrote:I occasionally see this MTG article (https://articles.starcitygames.com/prem ... -beatdown/) offered as good strategy advice to NARPs since supposedly it also applies well to our game. Considering that it is loaded with MTG jargon and examples using specific MTG cards, the important points are completely lost on me. Would anyone be willing to provide some sort of translation into our language?
I've posted about this before, and pretty sure I gave SWCCG examples (like ISB and Diplo and when they're control and when they're beatdown).

Maybe you can search for that and copy/paste the quote here for your own info (answering the OP) and to consolidate here for anyone else reading the thread and as a jumping off point.

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Re: Who's the Beatdown?

Post by londonsean »

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73506

I think it’s this thread here.


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Re: Who's the Beatdown?

Post by DS-61-4 »

londonsean wrote:
January 2nd, 2021, 11:09 am
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73506

I think it’s this thread here.
What a fantastic thread! I love this stuff!

Funny that you mention in that thread, as I have seen others say before, that the article still makes sense ignoring the MTG specific cards, while I could not for the life of me decipher the main idea behind it until that thread (and this thread) explicitly spelled it out.

Here is your quote that is relevant to this thread, although the entire thing is worth reading:
Eric's point about you doing 4 to his 3 meaning you're ahead is about EXACTLY this. In that case, you're the control, he's the beatdown. In other words, if neither of you do anything, you win. So the impetus is on him to take action to change that board state.

You were playing as the beatdown when you should have put it on him.

Whereas with the Rops, you likely needed to be the beatdown, and you were, and it didn't work (liekly why Eric said it sounded like the rops play was on the right track). That could be due to a number of factors from luck to deck construction to in-game decisions (you yourself said you saw some things you could have done differently in the battle). That's something you learn from. But as an overall holistic thing, keep in mind who's the beat down.

For a modern SWCCG example, Rops is usually the control deck. But vs Diplo, it better be the beatdown. TRM is usually the beatdown, but vs HD it might need to play the control deck. Scum you're used to being the beatdown, because it often is. But sometimes it has to play control.

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Re: Who's the Beatdown?

Post by arebelspy »

For a current example, HD v vs HITCO.

Either one could take either role in any given game.

Who is the beatdown depends on a number of factors, chiefly the particular builds (some of which you'll have unknowns on if you haven't had a verify, etc.) and opening hands/early draws for board state.

If they get a jump in damage, you may not be able to drain race, so you become the beatdown and have to take the fight to them, and they are de facto the control.

If you get a hand of battling cards, you may choose to play it beatdown. If you get a hand of Vergence and BB8, you may choose to play it control.

Those are in game decisions, and it's tactical decisions like that which tilt a quite even matchup to the better player.

Note also how I mentioned deck build is a factor. My HITCO from day 1 of worlds was more control than an average one you might look at, with 2x BB8 and Vergence. So you can tilt your deck one way or the other (and some decks are just inherently almost always one or the other), but ultimately you need to assess during the game and be flexible.

If you take an early beatdown, you often become the beatdown, needing to cause one yourself to catch up or win.

Vs ISB, Diplo might be the beatdown or might be the control. Deck construction matters (does Diplo have Blount? That helps with control. Does it have jedi presence? Does DS have domination, or might they have an indy ship for the tat fight? Etc.), as do early turns.

A deck like CCT could be beatdown or control, and another thing that factors in is play style. Some people play more aggressive. Some play a control style. It's worth knowing your (main/preferred) style, and the benefits and weaknesses, and also learning the flip side of it, especially for those matches you just can't seem to win with your normal strategy/tactics. That's often because you need to adjust your role in the game.

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Re: Who's the Beatdown?

Post by Wokling »

Corran wrote:
January 2nd, 2021, 10:44 am
For me it comes down to “If nobody deploys any cards for the rest of the game, who wins?” If I satisfy BP and am doing 5 damage per turn and my opponent is paying to drain 4 per turn, I probably should think twice before overdevelopment or invading their locations. They should be thinking about what they can do to actively disrupt the game state.
This. Lots of other factors can matter but, if you want to figure out who is the beatdown, ask yourself this question first.
Last edited by Wokling on January 3rd, 2021, 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Who's the Beatdown?

Post by stevetotheizz0 »

I love this article (and all the really old MTG game theory pieces.)

Basically, it’s who will win if you ignore your opponent and race or each just play your own game plan. If sticking to your own sites and objective means you lose.... then you need to take the risk and be aggressive in trying to disrupt your opponent and end the game before he sets up his strategy (which is stronger than yours.)

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