Day 3 Results/Stats

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mryellow
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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by mryellow »

darklordofthesith wrote:
darklordofthesith wrote:
Advocate wrote:it was the +3.

to blance the better twix option light has, light even has a playable trix option in the chamber so secp v original is not overpowered even at the +3.

let me rephraise it is overpowerd but in context helps maintain the balance. Balance is more important than overpowered for the game on a wholistic sense. If the whole game is overpowered but balanced who cares. It is the natural progression of things. "might a man strech forth his puny hand to stop the decreed course of the mighty river"
bump

i nominate you to be on the design team.

imo there is too much worry about "power creep" and not enough attention put on balance. i would love to see it shift the other way in the next set. it is much needed!


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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by arebelspy »

agree. the game had a ton of broken stuff in 05 (wys v, scum, endor mains) and the backlash from that power creep has continued 4 years (!) to where we are now, with the current errata going so far as to say veers v needs an errata to only add 3 to power instead of 4.

power creep is good, healthy for the game, it makes it evolve, and helps balance things.

those in design right now disagree, and thus we have the game we have.

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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by retwin316 »

mikefrench wrote:i don't think il and tantive are problems. the problem is that ls has nothing at all to give them pause at playing non-bgs. i guess maybe dark recon v? which can be altered and so on. so ds decks have to know consider, do i play wmaop + bridge in my deck, or not? do i give myself the activation i need but be possibly screwed by il? same with a bunch of objectives that start cor (se). do i play this obj KNOWING that tantive will blow me out?

but ls just plops down the jcc and doesn't think twice. maybe one game in 10 it'll get dark recon'd (which you can just alter or ultimatum or attack the site).
'

Tantive and Il are most certainly problem cards. They really do limit what the dark side has to work with, and if you are forced to go take care of those problems, you are left sitting at a place where you can't do any damage.

Someone in design needs to start making some good cards for both sides, and not just light.

My 2 cents, change some of the dark side cards that do exist to make them better, for a start. Make the new Vader work against luke and any jedi, instead of a jedi council member, of which you might face one of in each deck. He would be playable then, and not even be as good as luke is still.

Make release your anger not make you lose it and another force on top of it. It still wouldn't be anywhere close to as good as jedi res, but at least you might think of using it instead of losing 2 cards just to take your guy back into hand.

Dark does need something like a naked 3p0 also. It is really hard to fit Janus into just any deck, and there is nothing to pull him.

Make sith fury into the card it was originally meant to be (rise my friend) instead of making it a card with a dot on it, and making it's lost function worthless. Give it a lost function that might be somewhat useful.

Dark side really needs an effect you can start that will allow it to go first no matter what. I played eops at worlds, and in half my games, and more in testing, I could never flip my objective because I didn't go first and lost the bunker before I ever took a turn. That is complete *.

Bad feeling was never even anywhere close to as good as goo, and it got a shield for it!? Are you serious!? Yet goo still trumps all jedi even if you do have the molator combo.

I am sure there are many more, but that is all off the top of my head.

Hopefully something gets done soon, because it really isn't fun when you go into half your games at a severe disadvantage because you are forced to play a dark deck that can't even hope to beat 3/4th of the decks you might face.

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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by retwin316 »

mryellow wrote:
MrNiceGuy wrote:If it were up to me, I'd bring back the old Security Precautions(v). If the potential +3 Force generation was a concern, why not cap it at +1 while still retaining the anti-Revo and anti-deployment modifier text at same and adjacent sites?
I was asked to change it for some unexplained reason. Right now it sucks. I would love to have it back to what it was - nobody ever seemed to complain that it was too powerful.
It can at least stop projections and vergence in the force can't it?

Idk, your card seems still randomly ok, but yeah, the old text was much better, but someone wanted to errata every dark side card that was good.

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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by Wolverine »

Throdo wrote:
arebelspy wrote:
Throdo wrote:I really hope the answer right now isn't more errata :?
that's always the answer.

have you seen how powerful zimh and mauls ship are?
hmm good point. maybe we need to errata those ships? Maybe just blank their gametext, since they already have good enough helpers in 4lom epp and srf combo.
Hmm, how about we erreta EVERY damn thing... Egad people... Almost 3000 NON virtual cards in the game rotation, not all fo them are going to be good and vice versa!
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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by 3MW0J8 »

Hunter wrote:And poor Dark Recon doesn't even create a battleground in the first place, making it more likely that the DS player will have to pay for Battle Plan, than if the LS player is using IL-19 in a similar fashion.
That's an important point to note. In a recent game against Mistryl, my opponent took over my JCC w/a bunch of girls and Dark Recon and was all set to drain me for 5 w/Guri V and Dark Recon adding to the drain. But I had 3 Atrocities out so I just used those to reduce the Force loss to 2 lol.
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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by 3MW0J8 »

retwin316 wrote:
mryellow wrote:
MrNiceGuy wrote:If it were up to me, I'd bring back the old Security Precautions(v). If the potential +3 Force generation was a concern, why not cap it at +1 while still retaining the anti-Revo and anti-deployment modifier text at same and adjacent sites?
I was asked to change it for some unexplained reason. Right now it sucks. I would love to have it back to what it was - nobody ever seemed to complain that it was too powerful.
It can at least stop projections and vergence in the force can't it?
Not Vergence cuz it's immediate
Brad Eier wrote:build better decks, play better cards, etc.
Advocate wrote:I would reply, but the site is down.
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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by mryellow »

mryellow wrote:
It's been touched on in other threads but here is a brief run-down of why LS is better than DS right now.

Activation: light has good pullers for war rooms, a 2/0 naboo site (the puller has good text too), and a 3/0. Might I add, a 3/0 is much better than a 2/0.

Dark doesn't have as good pull options, and even if it did, it has to worry about IL-19. That card is retarded for so many reasons - 4 destiny, it goes used if lost, it makes a non-battleground a battleground. It is infinitely better than Presence of the Force, which has a direct canceler (and is not immune to alter).

Similarly, Tantive IV > dark side non-battlegrounds, which directly affects several decktypes (ISB, AoBS, SYCFA, etc).

Both sides have Janus/Mirax, but having Threepio is amazing. There are several ways to get him - the 5 destiny puller, Seeking an Audience, even indirect ways like Control/Tunnel Vision, I Must Be Allowed To Speak, Let The Wookiee Win, How Did We Get Into This Mess, etc. The closest thing dark side has is Force Push, which is once per game, or deck-specific cards like Lott Dod or Captain Bewil. Deck specific sucks. (In fact, one of the only tricks dark had to get cards out of their deck like LS can was Bewil, who was really nerfed ironically in the errata.)

Wokling is much better than any generation effect dark side can start too. And its text is better than Crossfire or Breached Defenses. Why?

Why is Rycar better than the dark side version, I've Lost Artoo? It's infinitely better.



Figured I'd add to the list while it was on my mind:

As Gogolen mentioned, Revolution and Goo Nee Tay.

As someone else mentioned in another thread, A Jedi's Resilience. 6 destiny and the dark side has no equivalent.

This is small but significant: Luke Skywalker v works when piloting anything but Space Vader doesn't.

Feel free to tack on other significant complaints here for future reference.
Was driving a long time today and thought of a few more things.

Menace Fades is way easier to set up than Imp Decree. I dunno if that should be changed, but in DBO it was huge. For ROPs, it was tough (rare) to set up Imp Decree. But they killed it anyways with the new shield, and with ROPs out of the meta light side mains are that much stronger. (I mentioned this in PTing but it was ignored.)

DS manipulation in general is bad. Janus is really the only thing. In addition to the things listed above (Mess, Mirax, Threepio, Tunnel Vision, etc) Light has WYS, of which the lost pile interrupt thing is retardedly good, and cards like We'll Take The Long Way, which lets LS abuse anything in lost pile not gray. Honestly, there are a half dozen light side cards I can't wait to abuse once the current meta shakes down. Dark Side has none of these options. Really, the only card Dark has to manipulate the lost pile that isn't deck specific is No Escape, and that's pathetic.

If dark side deck manipulation is something design wants to avoid, I vote their big dudes should be costed cheaper in comparison to LS big dudes to make up for it. Right now it feels oddly the other way around. Dark used to always be the deck of big blue, and light side had tricks and stuff - and it was good. Now, light has tricks AND even bigger blue.

And totally agree with Fred on Goo vs Bad Feeling. Why all the hate for a card nobody ever played? I can't remember ever seeing it in a deck after the Jabba's Palace expansion.
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