Day 3 Results/Stats

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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by Nitsuj »

puck71 wrote:Well they do have a destiny 4 one, but it's pretty much bad.
Meeker tried.


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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by mryellow »

mryellow wrote:
The former world champion went 4-0 with his light and 0-4 with his dark.

It's been touched on in other threads but here is a brief run-down of why LS is better than DS right now.

Activation: light has good pullers for war rooms, a 2/0 naboo site (the puller has good text too), and a 3/0. Might I add, a 3/0 is much better than a 2/0.

Dark doesn't have as good pull options, and even if it did, it has to worry about IL-19. That card is retarded for so many reasons - 4 destiny, it goes used if lost, it makes a non-battleground a battleground. It is infinitely better than Presence of the Force, which has a direct canceler (and is not immune to alter).

Similarly, Tantive IV > dark side non-battlegrounds, which directly affects several decktypes (ISB, AoBS, SYCFA, etc).

Both sides have Janus/Mirax, but having Threepio is amazing. There are several ways to get him - the 5 destiny puller, Seeking an Audience, even indirect ways like Control/Tunnel Vision, I Must Be Allowed To Speak, Let The Wookiee Win, How Did We Get Into This Mess, etc. The closest thing dark side has is Force Push, which is once per game, or deck-specific cards like Lott Dod or Captain Bewil. Deck specific sucks. (In fact, one of the only tricks dark had to get cards out of their deck like LS can was Bewil, who was really nerfed ironically in the errata.)

Wokling is much better than any generation effect dark side can start too. And its text is better than Crossfire or Breached Defenses. Why?

Why is Rycar better than the dark side version, I've Lost Artoo? It's infinitely better.

I have to go to work now so I can't continue this, but there are so many more issues. If the PC wanted balance from the errata, why were these issues not addressed or fixed?
Figured I'd add to the list while it was on my mind:

As Gogolen mentioned, Revolution and Goo Nee Tay.

As someone else mentioned in another thread, A Jedi's Resilience. 6 destiny and the dark side has no equivalent.

This is small but significant: Luke Skywalker v works when piloting anything but Space Vader doesn't.

Feel free to tack on other significant complaints here for future reference.
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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by Nitsuj »

If I had to rank the top 3 problems for Dark Side, as I see them everytime I try to build a dark side deck...

1) Tantive IV (v) / IL-9 (v) - these guys really give DS fits for playing non-bg locations. Wait, now I have to worry about defending my 1/0 space system provided to me by something like "Lone Pilot (v)"? Where is the reward for doing that?
2) Weak splash space and/or splash ground - yes, if you build a DS deck dedicated to go into one theatre or another, you can build it to do such things very well. But not only does DS have no real space splash, but it has no real ground splash either
3) Expensive. This can be related to inefficient activation platforms. But if you do build a solid ground deck or a solid space deck the key components seem to cost upwards to 6 forces at least. Given that lightside stuff is a few forces shy of this (especially in space), this means early game they have a card drawing advantage just by the nature of their mains comparative costs to ds mains comparative costs. If DS matching ships/pilots could stand up to standard lightside space packages this would be less of an issue.

Honorable mention: TRM and IITFYS's first turn advantage - this really hurts some dark decks -

Konsker's Scum deck - JP gets pwnd
MKOS - JP gets pwnd
Eops - Endor Bunker gets pwnd
ISB - Coruscant gets pwnd

the list goes on and on.... But this is definitely a factor that I'm feeling frustrated with as I build DS decks that goes against my general warm fuzziness for TRM.
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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by MrNiceGuy »

If it were up to me, I'd bring back the old Security Precautions(v). If the potential +3 Force generation was a concern, why not cap it at +1 while still retaining the anti-Revo and anti-deployment modifier text at same and adjacent sites?

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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by mikefrench »

i don't think il and tantive are problems. the problem is that ls has nothing at all to give them pause at playing non-bgs. i guess maybe dark recon v? which can be altered and so on. so ds decks have to know consider, do i play wmaop + bridge in my deck, or not? do i give myself the activation i need but be possibly screwed by il? same with a bunch of objectives that start cor (se). do i play this obj KNOWING that tantive will blow me out?

but ls just plops down the jcc and doesn't think twice. maybe one game in 10 it'll get dark recon'd (which you can just alter or ultimatum or attack the site).
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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by Lukes Bionic Hand »

One of the dumbest things about IL-19 or Tantive IV compared to presence is that if the dark side does actually manage to take back their non-BG, all LS has to do is forfeit their icon adder, and then DS has a bunch of good cards stuck at their own non-BG. that's just stupid.
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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by mikefrench »

Lukes Bionic Hand wrote:One of the dumbest things about IL-19 or Tantive IV compared to presence is that if the dark side does actually manage to take back their non-BG, all LS has to do is forfeit their icon adder, and then DS has a bunch of good cards stuck at their own non-BG. that's just stupid.
yah that's unfortunate. i actually dislike that tantive adds icons at EVERY ds system and not just non-bg.
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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by arebelspy »

Lukes Bionic Hand wrote:One of the dumbest things about IL-19 or Tantive IV compared to presence is that if the dark side does actually manage to take back their non-BG, all LS has to do is forfeit their icon adder, and then DS has a bunch of good cards stuck at their own non-BG. that's just stupid.
and thus why potf doesnt compare. if ds throws that on a ls twix and ls takes it over, it's still a bg.

if ls throws tantive or il to a ds twix and ds takes it over, it's no longer a bg.

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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by Hunter »

And poor Dark Recon doesn't even create a battleground in the first place, making it more likely that the DS player will have to pay for Battle Plan, than if the LS player is using IL-19 in a similar fashion.

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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by mikefrench »

arebelspy wrote:
Lukes Bionic Hand wrote:One of the dumbest things about IL-19 or Tantive IV compared to presence is that if the dark side does actually manage to take back their non-BG, all LS has to do is forfeit their icon adder, and then DS has a bunch of good cards stuck at their own non-BG. that's just stupid.
and thus why potf doesnt compare. if ds throws that on a ls twix and ls takes it over, it's still a bg.

if ls throws tantive or il to a ds twix and ds takes it over, it's no longer a bg.
well ds can strand il-19. like i've had him played at the bridge; you play maul + dre, operate and the battle ends, with il still at the site. or i've been on the receiving end of that - i had quiggy and il, he played epp mara, hit quiggy, force field lost then declined bd and lost the battle. il stranded, he played guys there his next turn and drained there for a bit. but yah, it does suck that potf is so much worse than il or tantive.
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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by mryellow »

MrNiceGuy wrote:If it were up to me, I'd bring back the old Security Precautions(v). If the potential +3 Force generation was a concern, why not cap it at +1 while still retaining the anti-Revo and anti-deployment modifier text at same and adjacent sites?
I was asked to change it for some unexplained reason. Right now it sucks. I would love to have it back to what it was - nobody ever seemed to complain that it was too powerful.
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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by mikefrench »

yah i have NO CLUE why sec prec v was changed. after its errata that requires presence it (to me) was one of the pinnacles of player created design. the only reasoning i ever received for its errata was that it contributed to players activating too much force too early. which i find to be simply wrong.
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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by Advocate »

it was the +3.
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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by mikefrench »

Advocate wrote:it was the +3.
so let's bring it back and have it say

"your force generation is +1 here (+2 if you occupy an adjacent site)"
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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by Throdo »

I really hope the answer right now isn't more errata :?

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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by arebelspy »

Throdo wrote:I really hope the answer right now isn't more errata :?
that's always the answer.

have you seen how powerful zimh and mauls ship are?

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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by darklordofthesith »

Advocate wrote:it was the +3.

to blance the better twix option light has, light even has a playable trix option in the chamber so secp v original is not overpowered even at the +3.

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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by darklordofthesith »

darklordofthesith wrote:
Advocate wrote:it was the +3.

to blance the better twix option light has, light even has a playable trix option in the chamber so secp v original is not overpowered even at the +3.

let me rephraise it is overpowerd but in context helps maintain the balance. Balance is more important than overpowered for the game on a wholistic sense. If the whole game is overpowered but balanced who cares. It is the natural progression of things. "might a man strech forth his puny hand to stop the decreed course of the mighty river"

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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by mryellow »

mikefrench wrote:
Advocate wrote:it was the +3.
so let's bring it back and have it say

"your force generation is +1 here (+2 if you occupy an adjacent site)"
To really take full advantage of the old sec prec v you had to deploy three sites on the same planet and occupy the central one (which had to be a battleground). That seems to promote interaction way more than, say, IL-19 or Wokling. It was also cancelable. And you couldn't easily start it (very unlikely, which was the point).

Your suggestion seems good to me. Although quite frankly it'd be better now to make an entirely new card that does the same thing. Poor Sec Prec has been through enough incarnations.
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Re: Day 3 Results/Stats

Post by Throdo »

arebelspy wrote:
Throdo wrote:I really hope the answer right now isn't more errata :?
that's always the answer.

have you seen how powerful zimh and mauls ship are?
hmm good point. maybe we need to errata those ships? Maybe just blank their gametext, since they already have good enough helpers in 4lom epp and srf combo.

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