Worlds 2011

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Worlds 2011

Post by Uber-Obi »

imrahil327 wrote:Whether Europe Worlds is a good idea or not, it will not be happening in 2010, so let's keep that discussion to another thread/forum. IF we do a Worlds in Europe, it would have to be announced very far ahead of time (as in, more than a year).
You're right, so here's the new thread...
greatwarrior wrote:Gentlemen,
and Ladies if any,

I have followed the recent conversation and have to admit that it is of course very convenient, time and cost efficient for all US/CAN based players if we always have the "worlds" in the US. Your country is so large that even among the US guys there is a discussion going on where it should take place :-) I do appreciate that....

To ease the decision for everybody, simply let worlds take place in one of the european countries (yes, there are several countries in Europe).

Besides, worlds has - in every other sporting area - always been a battle of nations with rotating venue all over the world. I do agree that there are regions where there are so few players that it would be unreasonable to let worlds take place there. However, Europe is NOT one of those places. From Australia, it can be reached as nearly quick as the US, so I do think the Australians would not mind going to Europe.

Yes, the US has a large player base.
Yes, Europe has a large player base.

Unless there are SIGNIFICANT differences in these figures, there is no reason why not have worlds in Europe. Alternating locations are fine, one year Europe and one year US. Everybody then has a fair chance to decide if he can afford to go or not.

Think about it guys, and especially think about the consequences in the medium run. Are we one WORLDs or "the US" and the rest of the world?

Cheers to everybody,

Great Warrior
You're my hero, whoever you are... :D


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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Schele »

The player base in the US is many times larger than the player base in Europe. It's not simply "both have a large player base", it's "The US's player base is significantly larger than Europe's, therefore it makes sense to cater to the larger number of players in a game that has such a fragile player base with too few players left".

Also, this is one of the WORST times to travel from the US to Europe, due to the exchange rates heading south (in favor of the Europeans) the past year and a half.
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by The Smoking Gungan »

the european leadership has never really been on great terms with the pc. if they had been working with the pc these last 8 years it would be one thing to reward them with a worlds. but instead the european leadership's main interaction with the pc has been to repeatedly ask for a world championship all the while keeping their own affair shrouded in mystery and distancing themselves from the usa leadership. you can't have your cake and eat it to. if europe wanted to go off and do its own thing that's their perogative, but to then turn around and ask for a worlds doesn't jive with the course they've chosen

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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by quesosauce37 »

i concur with the smoking gungan on this one, it also doesnt help that all of the advocates are american based, which makes it difficult to plan a big event overseas.

unless europe can GUARANTEE 75 or more for a big event, i dont see worlds coming there, but hey i've been known to make mistakes......from time to time
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Uber-Obi »

Schele wrote:Also, this is one of the WORST times to travel from the US to Europe, due to the exchange rates heading south (in favor of the Europeans) the past year and a half.
Well, no one today knows the exchange rates when you book your flight in March 2011 for Worlds in Europe in fall 2011. And when the rates are finally good for you it might be the same problem when you annouce Worlds in Europe coming 18 months later.
The Smoking Gungan wrote:the european leadership has never really been on great terms with the pc. if they had been working with the pc these last 8 years it would be one thing to reward them with a worlds. but instead the european leadership's main interaction with the pc has been to repeatedly ask for a world championship all the while keeping their own affair shrouded in mystery and distancing themselves from the usa leadership. you can't have your cake and eat it to. if europe wanted to go off and do its own thing that's their perogative, but to then turn around and ask for a worlds doesn't jive with the course they've chosen
You can't blame someone when he is rejected again and again and again AND AGAIN that he becomes a little bit dissatisfied with the whole situation. I'm not part of that "leadership" but I heard them fighting hard for Worlds in Europe and convincing a lot of people. At one time we nearly had a "GO" only to be rejected AGAIN.

You ask Europe to "Behave!" but ask yourself if you deserve total loyalty with your behavior in the past...
quesosauce37 wrote:unless europe can GUARANTEE 75 or more for a big event, i dont see worlds coming there
Of course I can't guarantee 75 players, my guess would be around 50 players. But where is the logic that we get Worlds with 75 players when all Worlds events in the last few years also had fewer than 75 players. Should that mean that you didn't deserve Worlds either...?
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Re: Worlds 2011

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Schele wrote:The player base in the US is many times larger than the player base in Europe. It's not simply "both have a large player base", it's "The US's player base is significantly larger than Europe's, therefore it makes sense to cater to the larger number of players in a game that has such a fragile player base with too few players left".
Europe has also a very fragile player base. And despite the bigger player base in the US, Worlds attendance in the las years has drawn "only" 50-60 people. We have stated and guaranteed several times that Worlds in Europe would draw more people than that.


Schele wrote:Also, this is one of the WORST times to travel from the US to Europe, due to the exchange rates heading south (in favor of the Europeans) the past year and a half.
You don't have to travel to Europe now. Worlds 2011 is at least 1.5 years away.

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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Schele »

How can you guys guarantee so many players when your Euro championships, the biggest tournament you have, hasn't drawn more than 20 in recent years?
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by arebelspy »

I've been pulling for a European worlds for a year or two now, and want it even more after playing with them over the summer.

Good luck guys.

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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by quesosauce37 »

Uber-Obi wrote:
quesosauce37 wrote:unless europe can GUARANTEE 75 or more for a big event, i dont see worlds coming there
Of course I can't guarantee 75 players, my guess would be around 50 players. But where is the logic that we get Worlds with 75 players when all Worlds events in the last few years also had fewer than 75 players. Should that mean that you didn't deserve Worlds either...?
the logic stems from making it worth giving to Europe, if we give it to you and only 15 Euros show up, then we basically made the more loyal player base here in the states pay at least double travel costs, added 1 to 2 days on to their travel time all to satisfy Europe players who as far as i know havent been supporting the PC the way the Americans have

If there were to be 60-80 euros and maybe 30-40 americans (both numbers seem high) then a European worlds would seem do-able, but i cant fathom how we'd get those types of numbers
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Re: Worlds 2011

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Schele wrote:How can you guys guarantee so many players when your Euro championships, the biggest tournament you have, hasn't drawn more than 20 in recent years?
Because of the hype!

Shadow 14 sent the PC a detailed list with players who would join. Not more than 20, yes, but not the same 20 every tourney. We also have several semi-retiered players, who never had a chance to play in a World Championship. We just need some time to advertise...

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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Uber-Obi »

As I said (and to correct Angelo, sorry!) we can't guarantee them because it will be the first time ever to have Worlds in Europe!
But my guess is that this is a "once in a lifetime" thing for many European players: They will know that Europe won't get another chance for Worlds and will take this one and only chance to play at a World Championship to maybe become the new World Champion in our beloved card game...
arebelspy wrote:Good luck guys.
Thanks Joe!
quesosauce37 wrote:If there were to be 60-80 euros...
Again my guess is 50 players.
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Schele »

So the "hype" would magically bring 35 players out that won't even attend the largest European tournament each year? Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that.
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by quesosauce37 »

Uber-Obi wrote:
quesosauce37 wrote:If there were to be 60-80 euros...
Again my guess is 50 players.

50 would probably be ok, but you would really have to make sure that those 50 show up, i expected around 60-70 for worlds this year and we got 55, you are always going to have flakes

TO keep it interesting, which country in europe would be selected as host? Germany? England? Spain? France? if i'm going to fly out to europe, i'd rather not point at a menu, so my vote is for England
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Uber-Obi »

quesosauce37 wrote:TO keep it interesting, which country in europe would be selected as host? Germany? England? Spain? France? if i'm going to fly out to europe, i'd rather not point at a menu, so my vote is for England
The largest player bases are in Germany, Netherlands, Great Britain, Hungary, Belgium, and Norway (and in that ordner, I guess) with some more players in France, Spain, Poland and Italy.
I have no problem with GB but guys from southern or eastern Europe might prefer a place a bit more closer. That could be Amsterdam or Frankfurt...
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Gravityshadow »

Uber-Obi wrote:As I said (and to correct Angelo, sorry!) we can't guarantee them because it will be the first time ever to have Worlds in Europe!
But my guess is that this is a "once in a lifetime" thing for many European players: They will know that Europe won't get another chance for Worlds and will take this one and only chance to play at a World Championship to maybe become the new World Champion in our beloved card game...
arebelspy wrote:Good luck guys.
Thanks Joe!
quesosauce37 wrote:If there were to be 60-80 euros...
Again my guess is 50 players.

Hey Dirk, I saw the list Chris Menzel prepared 1-2 years ago. I agree that it may be a bit out of date. But I'm 100% sure that Worlds in Europe would draw more than 50 people. I know approx. 10 semi-retired people in Germany who would come to Worlds in Europe. What about Belgium, The Netherlands, Italy, France, Ungaria, UK,... and I think there are many US players who could/would join if they have enough time to prepare.

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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by The Smoking Gungan »

one concern i have is that i don't see giving worlds to europe healing the rift (if there is one) that exists between the leaderships. as it stands now, europe basically does their own thing. they run and advertising their tournaments in a way that the pc can't easily take note of. they generally don't post results or decklists (although individual european players do post such things to decktech). and the major interaction between leaderships is to discuss hosting a worlds in europe. now let's say that worlds 2010 is in germany. the pc may get some decklists, and a couple of europe tourney listings for a couple months, but then i forsee that things more or less return to where they are now, or potentially even worse since without worlds to haggle over, the european leadership doesn't even bother to interact with the pc anymore

one idea i had (which is probably stupid, infeasible, etc. for multiple reasons) was to hold the big tourney in the usa and the big tourney in europe on the same weekend, and call the one event worlds: usa and the other worlds: europe. but the catch, set in stone well ahead of time, is that only the winner of the event with more attendence is crowned World Champion 20XX; the other winner is the Continential Champion 20XX. that raises issues on both continents of making sure that nobody shennanigans their attendence numbers, but if both events are run honestly it seems like the best hope for a meaningful compromise

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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Uber-Obi »

Gravityshadow wrote:I know approx. 10 semi-retired people in Germany who would come to Worlds in Europe.
If you get out Bastian Winkelhaus (Hunter's No. 1 player, remember?) out of his semi-retirement I'm not sure if it will attract or prevent US-players from coming... :D
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by PapaLorax »

I would hope that any Euro Worlds would be funded by Euro events and there would be a North American event that would be funded by the North American events.
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Re: Worlds 2011

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The Smoking Gungan wrote:one idea i had (which is probably stupid, infeasible, etc. for multiple reasons) was to hold the big tourney in the usa and the big tourney in europe on the same weekend, and call the one event worlds: usa and the other worlds: europe. but the catch, set in stone well ahead of time, is that only the winner of the event with more attendence is crowned World Champion 20XX; the other winner is the Continential Champion 20XX. that raises issues on both continents of making sure that nobody shennanigans their attendence numbers, but if both events are run honestly it seems like the best hope for a meaningful compromise
That idea sounds nice at first!

Let's assume we get those 50 players I mentioned - I believe you guys can top that with maybe 60 players (because we both know there are more players in the States). It would still feel a bit shabby for the Europeans.

The biggest problem would be that a lot of European players will say "Ah, we have no chance anyway... so I won't come."

NO, one world, one game, one World Championship!
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Gravityshadow »

Is this just coincidence, or why did the whole Worlds09 thread move to History?

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