Worlds 2011

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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Gravityshadow »

One nice little piece of information somebody gave me:

How many different nationalities participated in the past Worlds events and how many in the last Europeans events (despite 20 people...)?



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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by The Smoking Gungan »

Well both tournaments are the World Championship and named such. The only thing attendence does is determine whether the winner of the event has 'World' or 'Continental' preceeding his title. So attendence only matters to the two people who win the events. Are you telling me that there are players in Europe who would come out to an event titled World Championship where the winner is named World Champion but wouldn't come out to an event titled World Championship where the winner has an equally fair chance of being named World Champion. I think the number of ppl who would make such a distinction is very low.
Uber-Obi wrote:NO, one world, one game, one World Championship!
it's attitudes like this on both sides of the atlantic that have kept worlds in the usa for the past 8 years. both sides are going to have to compromise if a non-us worlds is ever going to occur. you can't just demand massive concessions from the pc without giving up something yourself or at least providing some idea of some benefit the pc would receive
Last edited by The Smoking Gungan on November 9th, 2009, 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by The Smoking Gungan »

Gravityshadow wrote:One nice little piece of information somebody gave me:

How many different nationalities participated in the past Worlds events and how many in the last Europeans events (despite 20 people...)?
this isn't really a fair question since you have to travel thousands of miles from the location of worlds to reach a country that is not the us, canada, or mexico. a fairer question would be, what is the average travel distance (in miles :twisted: ) for the average player at a given event? i think in the case of worlds 2009 and europeans 2009 they would be comparable.

now that i think about it, is that a metric you even want to win? "our players are willing to travel farther to events than your players, so we should have worlds closer to us"

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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Uber-Obi »

The Smoking Gungan wrote:both sides are going to have to compromise if a non-us worlds is ever going to occur. you can't just demand massive concessions from the pc without giving up something yourself or at least providing some idea of some benefit the pc would receive
Isn't it a compromise from the rest of the World to have the World Championship in your country since the beginning of the game? I know it feels normally for you... but, well, it shouldn't be.

But ok, let's talk about concessions: IF we behave and announce every tournament played in Europe, pay you the money you want, post results, decklists, and tournament reports in 2010 and 2011, can you GUARANTEE in return that we get Worlds?
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Tusken84 »

The Smoking Gungan wrote:one concern i have is that i don't see giving worlds to europe healing the rift (if there is one) that exists between the leaderships. as it stands now, europe basically does their own thing. they run and advertising their tournaments in a way that the pc can't easily take note of. they generally don't post results or decklists (although individual european players do post such things to decktech). and the major interaction between leaderships is to discuss hosting a worlds in europe. now let's say that worlds 2010 is in germany. the pc may get some decklists, and a couple of europe tourney listings for a couple months, but then i forsee that things more or less return to where they are now, or potentially even worse since without worlds to haggle over, the european leadership doesn't even bother to interact with the pc anymore
all your facts you list are wrong.

1) europe uses a different communication platform then the forum like mailing lists and stuff
2) we have decklist and decklist are usually required, but since we get no byes anymore for worlds, they are not posted.
3) there is active contact (or was active contact) between europe and US. just ask the guys who went to worlds 08.

the rest you mentioned is based on prejudices. before 09 you can find all decklists here. some aren't online anymore b/c of forums reload and stuff, but I downloaded them and have them here on my PC.

Just some notes why I think Europe is not been treated fair:
- the application for worlds 09 from europe was one of the first and one of the best applications. it was posted before application of the location worlds has been this year. the application of europe was just ignored

- more or less, the "leaders" of EU and US now talked through 8 tournament advocates, and once it was already or like 99% sure, the TDAdvo changed again and just said "no". it is what it is. europe got screwed 3 times in a row. but this is good.

- it is one game, one community. i am 100% sure that IF europe will do their own thing, it will be the start of the ending of this game. believe it or not.

conclusion: imagination should not end at a border or because there is an ocean between. think about it...

in the end there is just one argue I always see counted:
"I would pay sooo many money to get there..." and just at the moment it's too expensive b/c

1) the dollar to euro changing rate
2) europe is more expensive then US (btw, this is not correct!)
3) the flights are so expensive
yeah. it is. same in the other way.

Anyway, it's a mystery that worlds will come to europe ever and if you are informed correcty, you would see the consequences of this.

to uber-obi:
no, there won't be a garantuee. never, b/c europe will never get worlds. never. live with it.
Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:50 (AM):
Shadow 14 wrote: I absolutely agree with Tusken84.

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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Uber-Obi »

Tusken84 wrote:to uber-obi:
no, there won't be a garantuee. never, b/c europe will never get worlds. never. live with it.
If that's true, please say so, Advocates. It might save a lot of time & typing... :(
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Re: Worlds 2011

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quesosauce37 wrote: the logic stems from making it worth giving to Europe, if we give it to you and only 15 Euros show up, then we basically made the more loyal player base here in the states pay at least double travel cost
Not true. If the World Championships is hosted in Europe, it will not double travel costs for the player base here in the States. Because the player base will NOT attend the event.
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Tusken84 »

the more loyal player base here in the states
lol :?:
lol :!:

intresting how this thread is now going to be ignored after my post :D
Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:50 (AM):
Shadow 14 wrote: I absolutely agree with Tusken84.

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Re: Worlds 2011

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Hunter wrote:
quesosauce37 wrote: the logic stems from making it worth giving to Europe, if we give it to you and only 15 Euros show up, then we basically made the more loyal player base here in the states pay at least double travel cost
Not true. If the World Championships is hosted in Europe, it will not double travel costs for the player base here in the States. Because the player base will NOT attend the event.
You mean you would not attend? How can you speak for the whole player base? Are you sure nobody will attend a Euro Worlds? Have you asked every player about it? It is not like the event would be tomorrow. There would be at leas 1.5 years to prepare/save money/arrange something. I guess some players have never been to Europe and are looking for a good opportunity to actually do it.

Imagine you can do a great vacation, meet new friends, play SWCCG, and win money by doing so. All in one!

The feedback from US players, actually attending European events was not that bad anyway...

Maybe Hunter is wrong sometimes? ;)

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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by _maul »

Just stop calling "worlds" worlds, since it so clearly is not worlds. It's also just as clear that the American player base will never support a "worlds" not located conveniently for them.

Call it US Nationals.

Because as much as those in the US want it to be, having a "worlds" tournament every year in the same country makes it hard to consider it "worlds."

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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Halfwingseen »

Europe deserves at the bare minimum byes to worlds. Can we agree to that?
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by _maul »

The PC hasn't supported them, so they stopped supporting the PC financially, and that's why no byes get awarded in Europe.

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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Meto »

I don't know for sure, but from what I recall hearing, they don't have them because they don't want them.
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by The Smoking Gungan »

_maul wrote:The PC hasn't supported them, so they stopped supporting the PC financially, and that's why no byes get awarded in Europe.
other than not hosting a Worlds in Europe, what has the PC ever done that could be considered 'not supporting Europe'? the pc has bent over backwards accommodating europe, bending rules, etc. only to have Europe slip farther and farther away

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Re: Worlds 2011

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What have they done that could be considered "supporting" them?

Mailing out prize support (that they paid for)?

What else?

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Re: Worlds 2011

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_maul wrote:What have they done that could be considered "supporting" them?

Mailing out prize support (that they paid for)?

What else?
that's p much all the pc does for the usa players as well. i don't see what the pc does for us here in america that they aren't willing to do for europe (yes worlds is the obv counterpoint).

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Re: Worlds 2011

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Halfwingseen wrote:Europe deserves at the bare minimum byes to worlds. Can we agree to that?
to get byes one must pay the pc to run an event. the pc uses said money as prize money for worlds. they byes help pay for this.

the europeans decided they weren't going to worlds so they didn't need byes, so they didn't want to pay registration fees.

they can have byes anytime they want, they just need to register their event and pay the appropriate fees

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Re: Worlds 2011

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The Smoking Gungan wrote:
_maul wrote:What have they done that could be considered "supporting" them?

Mailing out prize support (that they paid for)?

What else?
that's p much all the pc does for the usa players as well. i don't see what the pc does for us here in america that they aren't willing to do for europe (yes worlds is the obv counterpoint).
You mean aside from spending almost all their prize money on events like worlds, right?

How many American vs rest of world advocates
1) are there
2) have there been

Why should anyone in Europe want to pay the PC for services that they essentially don't get any real benefit from?

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Re: Worlds 2011

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_maul wrote:You mean aside from spending almost all their prize money on events like worlds, right?
which comes from a prize pool that europeans no longer pay into, via agreement between the pc and europe, so i don't see how this is relevant? on the other hand, what about all the players here in the usa that play in sanctioned championship events but have no intention of going to worlds. is the pc not supporting those players? take georgia states (and i believe florida states) this year. both held sanctioned state championships, paid their $35 to the pc, and then had no players who attended either event attend worlds. but i don't hear the south saying it's going to rise up and not pay sanctioning fees anymore. we just accept it as a way to support the organization running the game (an 'ask not what your pc can do for you, ask what you can do for the pc' situation). more than anything the special 'no fees, no byes' system put in place for europe is an example of how the pc is willing to specifically cater to the europeans. as the official governing and sanctioning body for the game, they could have easily said 'if you don't pay your event fee then your event is not sanctioned', but no they were willing to work with europe and come up with a unique solution acceptable to all parties.
How many American vs rest of world advocates
1) are there
2) have there been
tamas papp (sry i probably spelled that wrong) was an advocate last year, and probably still would have been had he not disappeared. i think ddm and chris menzal have had behind the scenes jobs as well. the ratings guy, the sw-ip guys, and i think the gengine guy have all some backstage access. but how can europeans expect to become advocates if they're not here participating on the forums regularly? probably the number 1 requirement to be an advocate is for the current advocates to believe you are reliable and can get stuff done. with most of europe behind the virtual curtain there's no way for the pc to ascertain that someone will be a good advocate, or whether they'd be the next wampax or yoda007
Why should anyone in Europe want to pay the PC for services that they essentially don't get any real benefit from?
i'm not suggesting europe start paying for stuff 'they essentially don't get any real benefit from?'. i'm just saying that all this 'the pc doesn't support europe' talk is BSBS unless someone can provide some actual proof of this

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Re: Worlds 2011

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