Worlds 2011

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PapaLorax
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by PapaLorax »

_maul wrote:Why should anyone in Europe want to pay the PC for services that they essentially don't get any real benefit from?
When the collection of asshats around here start to realize that a volunteer organization shouldn't be continually trying to "prove" their worthiness...maybe this community would start to grow. But even as a group of volunteers they are peppered with "what are you doing for me"...instead of what can I do for you.

Amazing.


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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Uber-Obi »

European players (like me) still support the PC on a personal level with donations. Believe me, money is not the deal here. If you really need 100$ just say so, PC, you'll have it in a second!

We stopped paying for byes as a way of protest! Call it a strike or something. My buddy Chris Menzel just wrote a mail to the European player group: "I have nearly send a thousand e-mails to 10 different advocates over almost as many years. It won't happen!"

Most of you guys have no idea how long we have fought, argued and begged for an european worlds. We still have hope. We ask for it year after year still fighting, arguing and begging. As you heard in Chris' words, most of us have given up already. I'm not willing to share even if that means being called Don Quichotte in my community.

But I realize one thing: To finally get worlds to europe, us-players have to convince other us-players. This US vs. THEM is not good for the game and our community.

Peace!
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Nitsuj »

_maul wrote:Just stop calling "worlds" worlds, since it so clearly is not worlds. It's also just as clear that the American player base will never support a "worlds" not located conveniently for them.

Call it US Nationals.

Because as much as those in the US want it to be, having a "worlds" tournament every year in the same country makes it hard to consider it "worlds."
Wins the thread.

Europe deserves worlds once every 4 years, assuming that they pay for regional events to contribute to funding the prize for that worlds. European events could be kept in an escrow for a worlds cash prize in Europe.
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by PapaLorax »

Nitsuj wrote:Europe deserves worlds once every 4 years, assuming that they pay for regional events to contribute to funding the prize for that worlds. European events could be kept in an escrow for a worlds cash prize in Europe.
I would put a reasonable qualifier on how to get worlds.

Host A number of events
Have B number of different players in those events
Have C number of events with greater than D attendees

They don't "deserve" it any more than Texas deserves it...all things should be considered and there should be a way to "earn" it.

I would say they come back into the fold, pay the fees like everyone else and then if they can earn it, great. But if they only are willing to come back with the promise of a Euro worlds with no strings...that's silly.
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by arebelspy »

give them worlds once. try it out.

i bet the problems can be worked out, and we can still have a big us tourney near the same time.

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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by mikefrench »

arebelspy wrote:give them worlds once. try it out.

i bet the problems can be worked out, and we can still have a big us tourney near the same time.
i think having a big us tourney around the same time would be tantamount to sabotaging euro worlds.
Last edited by mikefrench on November 10th, 2009, 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by quesosauce37 »

mikefrench wrote:
i think having a big us tourney around the same time would be paramount to sabotaging euro worlds.

this
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by arebelspy »

mikefrench wrote:
arebelspy wrote:give them worlds once. try it out.

i bet the problems can be worked out, and we can still have a big us tourney near the same time.
i think having a big us tourney around the same time would be paramount to sabotaging euro worlds.
i think they'd be willing to make that compromise, when theirs would be called worlds, have the worlds prize money for that year, it would be unlikely many us players would travel to that and we schedule it way ahead of time so players can travel (and see europe - which is awesome - at the same time as going to worlds)

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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by imrahil327 »

Wow, I didn't even see this thread until now...not sure where to start commenting. I'll try to catch up at some point.
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by PapaLorax »

quesosauce37 wrote:
mikefrench wrote:
i think having a big us tourney around the same time would be paramount to sabotaging euro worlds.

this
put it 4 weeks before...its not like the calendar is that tight
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by darkjediknight11 »

PapaLorax wrote:put it 4 weeks before...its not like the calendar is that tight
Like people are going to commit the money to two worlds-type events in the span of one month? Not a chance.

Obviously a small handful might, ie brian herold, but not more than 5-10 max.

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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by PapaLorax »

darkjediknight11 wrote:
PapaLorax wrote:put it 4 weeks before...its not like the calendar is that tight
Like people are going to commit the money to two worlds-type events in the span of one month? Not a chance.
that isn't the point. its unlikely that anyone would do that in a year...much less a month. worlds in europe mean US players won't attend just like worlds in US means Euro players will not attend. There might be a few exceptions but not enough to try and accommodate those exceptions.

however, the news and decks and meta from one 4 weeks earlier would not overrule.
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by darkjediknight11 »

PapaLorax wrote:
darkjediknight11 wrote:
PapaLorax wrote:put it 4 weeks before...its not like the calendar is that tight
Like people are going to commit the money to two worlds-type events in the span of one month? Not a chance.
that isn't the point. its unlikely that anyone would do that in a year...much less a month. worlds in europe mean US players won't attend just like worlds in US means Euro players will not attend. There might be a few exceptions but not enough to try and accommodate those exceptions.
Did you just counter your own point?

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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by PapaLorax »

darkjediknight11 wrote: Did you just counter your own point?
no...reading comprehension ftl.

my point is that you can't space them at any interval that would get a significant number of participants in both events. so don't even try. however putting a big US event on the same weekend would negatively impact the news and decks coming out of worlds, which would be bad IMO. Spacing them out 4 weeks would give enough gap that the US event could help those going to Worlds evaluate the meta.
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by arebelspy »

the europe meta is way different anyways.. i think it'd be fun/challenging to go and compete

even if there was a competing big us event within, say, a month, some people will travel to worlds instead. they should get 1 year of worlds

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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by darkjediknight11 »

PapaLorax wrote:
darkjediknight11 wrote: Did you just counter your own point?
no...reading comprehension ftl.

my point is that you can't space them at any interval that would get a significant number of participants in both events. so don't even try. however putting a big US event on the same weekend would negatively impact the news and decks coming out of worlds, which would be bad IMO. Spacing them out 4 weeks would give enough gap that the US event could help those going to Worlds evaluate the meta.
I wasn't talking about that point about the meta, that's why i left it out of my quote...but thanks for being a prick to me anyway.

Someone mentioned that having a "US Nationals" event around the same time would sabotage Euro Worlds, implying people would go to one and not the other since they're around the same date. You then said to "put it 4 weeks before...its not like the calendar is that tight". Then you argue that 4 weeks or 4 months, neither is enough time. Make up your mind on a point? Or clarify if you were actually talking about the meta, cause no one was before so that would've been a terrible segue.

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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Gravityshadow »

PapaLorax wrote:
_maul wrote:Why should anyone in Europe want to pay the PC for services that they essentially don't get any real benefit from?
When the collection of asshats around here start to realize that a volunteer organization shouldn't be continually trying to "prove" their worthiness...maybe this community would start to grow. But even as a group of volunteers they are peppered with "what are you doing for me"...instead of what can I do for you.

Amazing.
This is and was never about supporting the PC. And if you mean "the collection of asshats" equals "Euros" be assured we are supporting the PC. There are many volunteers that among other things help in design, ratings, SWIP, playtest etc. And others like Uber-Obi are donating money to the PC, see I'm a Premium Member like you, too (BTW what is an asshat?...).

What we want is to host Worlds in Europe at least once, for many years now. The "official" way was persuit countless of times, hundreds of emails have been written back and forth, I persoanlly remeber two applications of our part with a detailed plan of everything that was requested and Chris Menzel (Shadow 14) even gave a guarantee of 50+ players attending. Other applications had none of this, actually in one the tornament location was still in question... Anyway, I don't remember Europe winning the bid (what happend with our applications? Were they actually considered?). Was there a thread for applications this year? Actually I don't think so, but I could be wrong. Nevertheless, this year, for me the decision to host World in NJ came out of nowhere. Honestly, I don't know what else we can do?

mikefrench wrote:
arebelspy wrote:give them worlds once. try it out.

i bet the problems can be worked out, and we can still have a big us tourney near the same time.
i think having a big us tourney around the same time would be paramount to sabotaging euro worlds.
This is also my oppinion. I still belive that there are US players, who actually will come to Euro Worlds, maybe combined with a vacation. By scheduling a big us tourny around the same time you are assuming the opposite. I don't think that it really matters but in the PC era I don't remember any (big) tournament in Europe, scheduled at the same time as Worlds.

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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Hunter »

darkjediknight11 wrote:
PapaLorax wrote:put it 4 weeks before...its not like the calendar is that tight
Like people are going to commit the money to two worlds-type events in the span of one month? Not a chance.

Obviously a small handful might, ie brian herold, but not more than 5-10 max.
Who cares? Do you REALLY think that more than 10 US players would attend the event in Europe ANYway? I would be VERY surprised if they could draw double-digits from America.
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by Hunter »

Gravityshadow wrote:
Hunter wrote:
quesosauce37 wrote: the logic stems from making it worth giving to Europe, if we give it to you and only 15 Euros show up, then we basically made the more loyal player base here in the states pay at least double travel cost
Not true. If the World Championships is hosted in Europe, it will not double travel costs for the player base here in the States. Because the player base will NOT attend the event.
You mean you would not attend? How can you speak for the whole player base? Are you sure nobody will attend a Euro Worlds? Have you asked every player about it?
"The player base" does not equal "every single person in the player base."
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Re: Worlds 2011

Post by The Franchise »

1.

worlds could be made a LOT smaller- but still increase participation.
essentially, i think that a 8-12 day 3 type playoff for the world championship would be awesome.

but, what if we spread out days 1-2 as qualifiers all over the world?

consider this scheme:

worlds day 3 is 12 players.

4 are the winners of 4 majors: mpc, texas, us nationals, euro nationals

4 are the next top 4 player points winners- basically winning lots of states/regionals and such gains you points

4 are open and play a last chance qualifier the day before day 3

so anyway like we could pay for the flights of the top 8 guys out of prizes and stuff for all the lead up events

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