Raveling World's Journal

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mr007agent
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Post by mr007agent »

band_member wrote:I also used alternate image cards so I had 2 Panaka's in normal and 2 in AI. 2 Queens AI and 2 normal. I also tend to split some cards into white border and some into black if I have that option. Anything to make my 'same' cards look 'different'.
Using AI's is bad? JW thinks that white border is the new black border. I guess using your cards is bad.


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Post by imrahil327 »

That ain't cheatin,' that's just good rough play!
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Post by puck71 »

mikefrench wrote:
puck71 wrote:
Pistone84 wrote:The thing that I can't get past is the different slips to deliberately deceive opponents. This is blatant cheating.
Which rule does it break?
is there a rule against murdering your opponent in the middle of the game? there doesn't need to be a rule to tell us that something this obvious is "cheating."
I think one thing this thread proves is that there does. I agree it should be cheating, but cheating means breaking a rule, so if it's not a rule...

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Post by mikefrench »

the point is, raveling built his deck to deceive his opponents into doing exactly what harpster did. i bet he also modified his game play to do so - he handed his opponent his hand to monnok instead of pulling out all multiples himself (hoping they'd miss some so he could cheat).

while all of the above is within the letter of the law, it represents a blatant disregard for the spirit of the law, and a blatant disrespect for the sanctity of the game. i still think raveling should get a temporary ban from tournament play for his actions, as they are purposefully underhanded and dishonest.
The Honky Tonk Man wrote:If you want to post trash takes, at least go the Mike French route and come off as being somewhat reasonable.

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Post by mikefrench »

puck71 wrote:
mikefrench wrote:is there a rule against murdering your opponent in the middle of the game? there doesn't need to be a rule to tell us that something this obvious is "cheating."
I think one thing this thread proves is that there does. I agree it should be cheating, but cheating means breaking a rule, so if it's not a rule...
nowhere is cheating defined as breaking a rule. cheating is defined by the tournament director. you need not break any official rules in order to cheat.
The Honky Tonk Man wrote:If you want to post trash takes, at least go the Mike French route and come off as being somewhat reasonable.

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Post by arebelspy »

mikefrench wrote:the point is, raveling built his deck to deceive his opponents into doing exactly what harpster did. i bet he also modified his game play to do so - he handed his opponent his hand to monnok instead of pulling out all multiples himself (hoping they'd miss some so he could cheat).

while all of the above is within the letter of the law, it represents a blatant disregard for the spirit of the law, and a blatant disrespect for the sanctity of the game. i still think raveling should get a temporary ban from tournament play for his actions, as they are purposefully underhanded and dishonest.
i'd support a statement-making one-day ban.

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Post by puck71 »

mikefrench wrote:
puck71 wrote:
mikefrench wrote:is there a rule against murdering your opponent in the middle of the game? there doesn't need to be a rule to tell us that something this obvious is "cheating."
I think one thing this thread proves is that there does. I agree it should be cheating, but cheating means breaking a rule, so if it's not a rule...
nowhere is cheating defined as breaking a rule. cheating is defined by the tournament director. you need not break any official rules in order to cheat.
I'm going by the dictionary definition that applies to card games: "to violate rules dishonestly." I'm not up on all the tourney guidelines so I don't know if it's defined differently there.

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Post by mikefrench »

arebelspy wrote:i'd support a statement-making one-day ban.
fantastic idea. it gives a precedent, and it says "this won't be tolerated in the future."
The Honky Tonk Man wrote:If you want to post trash takes, at least go the Mike French route and come off as being somewhat reasonable.

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Post by imrahil327 »

Honestly if it's not an ACTUAL ban, just releasing a statement and fixing the guide is enough. There's no need for 'ceremonial' punishments.
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Hunter wrote:Sebulba's W-L record is like...Always and 1. Tebow's is nowhere near that percentage.
allstarz97, about M:TG wrote:I feel like Michael Jordan playing baseball.

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Post by Schele »

Since apparently my morality is being questioned, well, here you go.
band_member wrote:Michael Raveling's SWCCG Morality Test:
Here's a simple test of your morality in relation to SWCCG. You don't need to answer publicly or anything but maybe just answer these questions yourself.
1. If your opponent plays Monnok and doesn't remove all doubles from your hand, would you voluntarily lose those he missed?
Yes. But normally, I will remove the doubles myself and then show my hand to my opponent.
2. If your opponent plays Scanning Crew and doesn't remove a rebel that is in your hand, would you ask him if he wanted to remove that rebel?
Yes.
3. If your opponent does not remind you to lose to their Visage Of The Emperor, would you still lose to it?
Usually yes, unless I forget about it.
4. If your opponent does not remind you to lose to your Visage Of The Emperor and it benefits you not to lose to it, would you still lose to it?
If I remember, yes.
5. If your opponent has First Strike on table against you, would you remind them to retrieve a force when they initiate battle against you?
Yes.
6. If you have First Strike on table, would you remind your opponent to retrieve a force when they initiate battle against you?
Yes.
7. Do you scout (watch) other people's games during a tournament when you still might have a chance to play that person?
Only if I have their permission, or it's a casual type tournament where everyone is watching all the games.
8. Do you discuss game details with other people after a tournament game when those other people may play the same opponent?
Same as above.
9. Do you discuss cards used by your opponent against you with other people after a tournament game when those other people may play the same opponent?
Only if it's a well known deck.
10. Would you and another player actively 'fudge' a tournament score (either win by more or lose by less) to try to place yourself or another player higher in the standings?
I have agreed to this before when presented to me.
11. Would you ask another player to give you a full win in a case where your game was timed out and you would get a timed win and there was no way to actually get a full win?
If it was not obviously inevitable that I would win, then no.
12. Would you ask another player to give you a full win in a case where your game was timed out and you would get a timed loss and there was no way to actually get a full win?
No.
13. Would you intentionally misplay your own card during a game if you knew the opponent had a high chance of allowing the misplay and it meant you would win the game?
No.
14. Your opponent makes a mistake with a rule and that mistake benefits you. Do you correct them?
Yes.
15. Your opponent force drains you for 2 when they could force drain you for more. Do you correct them?
Yes.
16. Would you use Japanese cards even though you know it makes it hard for your opponent to read your cards and some players may not know the text of that card?
No, only if it's a virtual card.
17. You play Out of Commission on your opponent, they somehow make it so you know which card is the one you would prefer to have go out of play. Do you correct them and have them re-shuffle their cards?
Yes.
18. Do you actively discuss an opponent's Hidden Base location with other player's during a tournament?
No.
19. You are playing Watch Your Step and you don't know what cards are in your lost pile. Do you look through it?
No.
20. Your opponent has lost the game and is drawing up. Do you play cards that retrieve or used interrupts to increase your differential?
Yes. Especially in bigger tournaments.
21. Your opponent holds their hand in such a way that you can see the cards they have in their hand. Do you look?
No. Usually just warn them that they're showing their hand.
22. Your opponent forgets to move a key guy away from a stack of your guys. The turn moves past your opponent's move phase and sometime after that they discover they did not move that guy away. Do you allow them to? What if it's during your turn?
If it's a newer player in a small tournament or even in a bigger one, I'll usually ask about it. An experienced player in a larger tournament will usually not get the same benefit.

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Post by The Franchise »

iyou cant give raveling a ban, even a 1 day ban. even if his intent WAS to decieve (sp?) his opponents, there was no clear rule against NOT cutting out your v slips. i mean, even kevin shannon did it. they arent gonna take his obelisk away.

not saying what he did was right or wrong, but umm you cant punish him when the punishment didnt exist ahead of time
V set 6 and 7 release rountable analysis with Reid, Carulli and myself:

https://forum.starwarsccg.org/viewt ... =2&t=64906

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Post by mikefrench »

Brad Eier wrote:you cant give raveling a ban, even a 1 day ban. even if his intent WAS to decieve (sp?) his opponents, there was no clear rule against NOT cutting out your v slips. i mean, even kevin shannon did it. they arent gonna take his obelisk away.

not saying what he did was right or wrong, but umm you cant punish him when the punishment didnt exist ahead of time
there doesn't have to be a rule on the books for everything. some things are just common sense.

one other thing i'd like to say is, before every big vs tcg tournament, they annouced that the one overlying "rule" was "don't be a d!ck." that was their catch-all. basically, even if there wasn't a rule against it, if you were trying to cheat without technically cheating, the head judge would still punish you if you were being a d!ck. we should have that rule. it was a good rule.
The Honky Tonk Man wrote:If you want to post trash takes, at least go the Mike French route and come off as being somewhat reasonable.

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Post by mikefrench »

Brad Eier wrote:decieve (sp?)
i before e except AFTER C

so e has to come before i when it happens after c

therefore

"deceive"
The Honky Tonk Man wrote:If you want to post trash takes, at least go the Mike French route and come off as being somewhat reasonable.

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Post by WiseMarsellus »

or sounding like ay
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Post by mikefrench »

WiseMarsellus wrote:or sounding like ay
but he didn't have a problem spelling neighbor or weigh so i didn't mention that part.
The Honky Tonk Man wrote:If you want to post trash takes, at least go the Mike French route and come off as being somewhat reasonable.

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Post by The Franchise »

mikefrench wrote:
Brad Eier wrote:you cant give raveling a ban, even a 1 day ban. even if his intent WAS to decieve (sp?) his opponents, there was no clear rule against NOT cutting out your v slips. i mean, even kevin shannon did it. they arent gonna take his obelisk away.

not saying what he did was right or wrong, but umm you cant punish him when the punishment didnt exist ahead of time
there doesn't have to be a rule on the books for everything. some things are just common sense.

one other thing i'd like to say is, before every big vs tcg tournament, they annouced that the one overlying "rule" was "don't be a d!ck." that was their catch-all. basically, even if there wasn't a rule against it, if you were trying to cheat without technically cheating, the head judge would still punish you if you were being a d!ck. we should have that rule. it was a good rule.

i agree 100% we should have the "done be a d1ck" rule. would be good. but we DONT RIGHT NOW

anyway yeah we need to overhaul some rules
V set 6 and 7 release rountable analysis with Reid, Carulli and myself:

https://forum.starwarsccg.org/viewt ... =2&t=64906

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Post by deadbody »

mikefrench wrote:
Brad Eier wrote:you cant give raveling a ban, even a 1 day ban. even if his intent WAS to decieve (sp?) his opponents, there was no clear rule against NOT cutting out your v slips. i mean, even kevin shannon did it. they arent gonna take his obelisk away.

not saying what he did was right or wrong, but umm you cant punish him when the punishment didnt exist ahead of time
there doesn't have to be a rule on the books for everything. some things are just common sense.

one other thing i'd like to say is, before every big vs tcg tournament, they annouced that the one overlying "rule" was "don't be a d!ck." that was their catch-all. basically, even if there wasn't a rule against it, if you were trying to cheat without technically cheating, the head judge would still punish you if you were being a d!ck. we should have that rule. it was a good rule.
I actually like that rule.
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Post by Hunter »

mikefrench wrote: one other thing i'd like to say is, before every big vs tcg tournament, they annouced that the one overlying "rule" was "don't be a d!ck." that was their catch-all. basically, even if there wasn't a rule against it, if you were trying to cheat without technically cheating, the head judge would still punish you if you were being a d!ck. we should have that rule. it was a good rule.
I don't know how well that "rule" was enforced either. In my own personal experience, it was not enforced too well. I actually had two separate occasions at two separate Pro Circuit events where I called a Judge to enforce the "don't be a d!ck" rule. In both instances, the Judge ruled against my opponent, since they were clearly just trying to snake their way out of a game-ending mistake they had made. One opponent was trying to rules-lawyer his way out of it, and the other was actually trying to lie his way out of it (but a player in the adjacent game had overheard that portion of the game, and was able to confirm for the Judge that yes, my opponent was lying.)

Unfortunately for me, BOTH of those opponents appealed the Judges' decisions, and BOTH of those Judges had their rulings overturned by the Head Judge. When I asked "What about the rule about not being a d!ck?" the Head Judges just looked at me rather sympathetically, shrugged their shoulders, and explained that it is "more of a recommendation than a rule."

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Post by mikefrench »

you have to be a better vs player then

it worked out ok for me
The Honky Tonk Man wrote:If you want to post trash takes, at least go the Mike French route and come off as being somewhat reasonable.

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Post by Jeeps »

mikefrench wrote:you have to be a better vs player then

it worked out ok for me
You must be a d!ck then! :)
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