Moving 'Hatred' cards from character to Used Pile

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chrknudsen2
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Moving 'Hatred' cards from character to Used Pile

Post by chrknudsen2 »

When I've Been Searching For You For Some Time is used to place Hatred cards in Used Pile, do you get to peek at them? I checked the AR and couldn't find anything that seemed conclusive to me:
Placing Cards In A Hand, Deck, Or Pile
When a rule or game text allows or requires a card to
be placed in (or on, on top of, on bottom of, etc.) a
player's hand, deck, or pile, and that text does not
specify which player's hand, deck, or pile it should be
placed in, the card is placed in (or on, on top of, on
bottom of, etc.) the hand, deck, or pile belonging to its
owner. Also, when an action places multiple cards into
a player's hand, deck, or pile, and the card's game text
does not state which player may decide the order of
those cards, placing each card is considered a
competing automatic action, and the order is decided by
the player whose turn it is.

Removing Cards From A Hand, Deck, Pile, Or Stack
When a card removes any card(s) from a hand, deck,
pile, or stack, do not reveal the card(s) unless instructed
to do so. If the card(s) being removed was face up, it
may be seen by both players. If the card was face down
or hidden (e.g. a card in hand), it may be seen by its
owner if they were allowed to look at the card(s)
normally. However, if the removing card uses the word
“unseen,” then neither player may view the card(s)
being removed.



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Gergall
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Re: Moving 'Hatred' cards from character to Used Pile

Post by Gergall »

Short answer: DS can only view Hatred cards that are stacked on DS cards, such as when DS uses The Dark Path (V) to stack a Hatred card directly on a location which they happen to own.
DS can't view Hatred cards that are stacked on LS characters or LS locations.

-------------
Long answer:

Please note that the entries you quotes have been replaced by more thoroughly worded versions in the Current Rulings thread.
Removing Cards From A Hand, Deck, Pile, or Stack
When a card removes (takes, plays, relocates, exchanges, retrieves, replaces, draws, etc.) any card(s) from a hand, deck, pile, or stack, do not reveal the card(s) unless instructed to do so, or in the following situations:
• If the card(s) being removed was face up, either by itself, or as part of a face up deck, pile, or stack, it may be seen by both players.
If the card was face down or hidden (e.g. a card in hand), it may be seen by its owner if they were allowed to look at the card(s) normally.
• If the card will be played or deployed directly, it must be revealed to both players.
However, if the removing card uses the word “unseen,” then neither player may view the card(s) being removed.
The text I put in red underline is important, lets come back to that in a minute.
Placing Cards Into A Hand, Deck, Or Pile
When a rule or game text allows or requires a card to be placed into (or on, on top of, on bottom of, etc.) a player's deck, pile, stack or hand, (either individually or as part of an exchange) and that text does not specify which player's hand, deck, or pile it should be placed in, the card is placed into (or on, on top of, on bottom of, etc.) the hand, deck, or pile belonging to its owner. Also, when an action places multiple cards into a player's hand, deck, or pile, and the card's game text does not state which player may decide the order of those cards, placing each card is considered a competing automatic action, and the order is decided by the player whose turn it is. When a card is placed into (or on, on top of, on bottom of, exchanged with a card within, etc.) a hand, deck, pile, or stack, do not reveal the card(s) unless instructed to do so, or in the following situations:

• If the card(s) is being placed into a face up condition, either by itself, or as part of a face up deck, pile, or stack (but not a hand) it may be seen by both players.
• If there are any criteria for what kind of card you may place into a deck, pile, stack, or hand, you must reveal that card regardless of initial face-down or face-up orientation
However, if the action placing a card in a deck, pile, stack, or hand uses the word “unseen,” then neither player may view the card(s) being placed (although the player of the card will likely have this knowledge if it came from hand).

Note that if a card was revealed when removing it from a stack, it need not be revealed a second time (if appropriate) when moving into another deck, pile, stack, or hand.
The above entries cover a wide range of scenarios. Most of the different possible conditions for DS to view their Hatred card have NOT been met. However, remember that red underline text from earlier? Lets go find out what it takes for DS to be able to look at their Hatred card "normally":
Looking At A Deck, Pile, Or Stack
As a general rule, you may not look through any deck,
pile, or stack unless permitted to by a rule or card (even
if it's face up, such as the Lost Pile). However, if your
card is stacked on (or under) another of your cards (or
any location), you may examine it at any time (unless a
card or rule prohibits it). Thus Dark may examine his
Bluff cards, combat cards, and cards under his Starting
Effect, but not cards under Insignificant Rebellion
(they're not his), or I Feel The Conflict (it's not his
Effect).
As we can see in the above entry, Hatred cards can be viewed by DS normally if they happen to be stacked on a DS card. DS can view them at any time, and viewing them is not an "action" - it's simply freely available whenever DS wishes to check.
But DS cannot view the Hatred cards stacked on LS cards.
Greg Zinn

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Re: Moving 'Hatred' cards from character to Used Pile

Post by chrknudsen2 »

Thanks for the comprehensive answer!

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