beldon's eye v

SWCCG Rules Q&A only.
Post Reply
User avatar
WiseMarsellus
Member
Posts: 17423
Joined: February 26th, 2007, 9:33 am

beldon's eye v

Post by WiseMarsellus »

Once per game, if Quiet Mining Colony on table, may simultaneously deploy a unique (*) [Independent Starship] starfighter and matching pilot (for -1 Force each) from your hand and/or Reserve Deck; reshuffle.

i search my reserve with this. i deploy both ship and pilot from hand. does opponent verify reserve?


tom kelly
Image Image Image Image
check out my youtube page for swccg video content, and my twitch for swccg live streams!

User avatar
Gergall
Member
Posts: 19921
Joined: December 9th, 2002, 1:14 am
Location: Long Island, NY
Contact:

Re: beldon's eye v

Post by Gergall »

If your search fails to find any card matching the criteria given, your opponent is permitted to check to see that deck, pile, or stack in order to prove that no candidate could have been taken; this is called "verifying."
Your search didn't fail, you just opted to use candidates from your hand. I would definitely not allow a verification.

Plus it would be really weird, because normally when the opponent verifies, they can find a legal candidate and force you to use it. That wouldn't apply here because you already have legal candidates. So this definitely does not look like a verification situation in any way.
Greg Zinn

Image

User avatar
JediJer
Administrator
Posts: 26017
Joined: December 3rd, 2002, 1:42 am
Location: Utah

Re: beldon's eye v

Post by JediJer »

Gergall wrote:
If your search fails to find any card matching the criteria given, your opponent is permitted to check to see that deck, pile, or stack in order to prove that no candidate could have been taken; this is called "verifying."
Your search didn't fail, you just opted to use candidates from your hand. I would definitely not allow a verification.

Plus it would be really weird, because normally when the opponent verifies, they can find a legal candidate and force you to use it. That wouldn't apply here because you already have legal candidates. So this definitely does not look like a verification situation in any way.
I'm sorry, I have to disagree with this as even being a legal play.
WiseMarsellus wrote:i search my reserve with this.
Section B. Taking Cards From A Deck/Pile
Once the search has been initiated, a player must take a card if possible.
If you search your deck with the text from Beldon's Eye v, you must deploy a card from reserve if possible. If there are candidates, you must deploy one, regardless if you are going to deploy something else from hand (the fact that the cards from hand would also be valid targets for the search is irrelevant). If there are no valid candidates, the opponent gets to verify and you can then deploy the matching pair from hand (you can also deploy the matching pair from hand before using Beldon's Eye to search.

User avatar
Gergall
Member
Posts: 19921
Joined: December 9th, 2002, 1:14 am
Location: Long Island, NY
Contact:

Re: beldon's eye v

Post by Gergall »

Due to the and/or, I am reading it as the player performs a single search of the combined contents of their hand and Reserve and does indeed select cards as a result of the search.

I think the entry you are quoting is intended for situations like, for example, if you reveal Pulsar Skate hoping for Mirax, and she's not there, you must instead take the Wedge (V), you cannot decline to take Wedge just because he wasn't the card you wanted.

With Beldon's Eye, you are indeed finding cards and deploying them - from your hand, but still.

-----

I will pass this this along to the rules team because I agree that the rules are sufficiently vague enough for you to be correct.
Greg Zinn

Image

User avatar
JediJer
Administrator
Posts: 26017
Joined: December 3rd, 2002, 1:42 am
Location: Utah

Re: beldon's eye v

Post by JediJer »

Here is the text from the entry that I left out, that may (or may not) be relevant:
If the initiating text provides more than one candidate card that may be taken from the same deck, pile or stack, you are permitted to declare the action specifying only the card you are using to search (if the card has multiple search functions, the player must declare which function he is utilizing). You may then look through that deck, pile, or stack before choosing which of the cards you wish to take. Once the search has been initiated, a player must take a card if possible.

I would argue that the card does have multiple functions -
1- deploy from hand
2- deploy from reserve
3- deploy from hand and reserve

If you use option 3, I can see an argument for not requiring verification as long as you deploy both a ship and pilot from hand after searching reserve (hoping for another option to go with the better ship or pilot already in your hand)

User avatar
WiseMarsellus
Member
Posts: 17423
Joined: February 26th, 2007, 9:33 am

Re: beldon's eye v

Post by WiseMarsellus »

i have multiple ship/pilot combos in my deck. i have one in my hand. the other is in an unknown location. are you saying i can't search my reserve in this scenario? if both of combo #2 is in my reserve, can't i deploy it from reserve? if combo #2 is not in reserve, am i foreclosed from deploying #1 from hand now that i've searched reserve?
tom kelly
Image Image Image Image
check out my youtube page for swccg video content, and my twitch for swccg live streams!

User avatar
Gergall
Member
Posts: 19921
Joined: December 9th, 2002, 1:14 am
Location: Long Island, NY
Contact:

Re: beldon's eye v

Post by Gergall »

As a reminder, this item is under rules team review.

Just FYI, these are NOT search functions that a player must choose from and declare before searching:
hand
reserve
hand+reserve

When the AR says you must declare your search function in advance, it is referring to cards like We Must Accelerate Our Plans which has 3 separate search functions separated by the word "OR" in capital letters. A player cannot reveal WMAOP, look through their deck, and then choose between Blockade Bridge or Podracer card. They need to declare "Flagship site" or "Podracer card" before they start looking.

On the other hand, We Wish To Board At Once allows a LS player to take Radiant VII or a Podracer card within a single function. LS would merely indicate they are using that function, then search their deck and choose either card after looking through.
Greg Zinn

Image

User avatar
Gergall
Member
Posts: 19921
Joined: December 9th, 2002, 1:14 am
Location: Long Island, NY
Contact:

Re: beldon's eye v

Post by Gergall »

Rules team has reached a decision on this. It is one large searching action - it's not two separate searches, and it's not separate search "functions" either.
AR wrote:Once the search has been initiated, a player must take a card if possible.
Because it is a single large search, the above quoted condition from the AR is satisfied as long as LS does come up with a starfighter/pilot pair to deploy - even if the entire pair came from hand.
Greg Zinn

Image

User avatar
WiseMarsellus
Member
Posts: 17423
Joined: February 26th, 2007, 9:33 am

Re: beldon's eye v

Post by WiseMarsellus »

so if ls fails to deploy a pair, hand verification is required?
tom kelly
Image Image Image Image
check out my youtube page for swccg video content, and my twitch for swccg live streams!

User avatar
Aglets
Rules Advocate
Posts: 19193
Joined: January 14th, 2004, 9:08 pm
Location: Bel Air, MD

Re: beldon's eye v

Post by Aglets »

WiseMarsellus wrote:so if ls fails to deploy a pair, hand verification is required?
Potentially, yea. Similar to the extremely rare Court scenario where a TD may be called in to verify there is no appropriate pilot for an Independent starship in Reserve.
Image
Rian Johnson wrote: I would be worried if everybody across the board was like "Yea, that was a good movie." It's much more exciting to me when you get a group of people who are coming up to you.....really really excited about it. And then there are other people who walk out literally saying that was the worst movie I've ever seen. Having those two extremes to me is the mark of the type of movie that I want to make.

User avatar
Gergall
Member
Posts: 19921
Joined: December 9th, 2002, 1:14 am
Location: Long Island, NY
Contact:

Re: beldon's eye v

Post by Gergall »

Just to clarify that further for anyone who isn't aware: A player may not personally verify their opponent's hand.

However, if a situation arises where hand verification is necessary, a player may call over a judge to perform the hand verification.

Beldon's Eye (V) would warrant this if no pair is found.
Greg Zinn

Image

User avatar
Lukes Bionic Hand
Retired Advocate
Posts: 3196
Joined: January 26th, 2003, 2:44 pm
Location: A realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it
Contact:

Re: beldon's eye v

Post by Lukes Bionic Hand »

Update to this ruling: the result of the ruling is unchanged, but the ruling itself has been added to the AR under the "Taking Cards From A Deck/Pile" entry in Chapter 1.

The ruling can be found at the very beginning of this post in the current rulings/errata thread: /viewt ... 14#p977214
The Smoking Gungan wrote:worf plays for canada even though that team has no honor and plays dirty
Image Image

Post Reply

Return to “Rules Questions”