Death Star II Sites / Battlegrounds

[Darkbow]

Hi,

Taking this away from the general discussion on the new set and seeking a clarification. My understanding is that DSII sites are never battlegrounds due to:

However, the following locations are never
battlegrounds:
 holosites,
 Dagobah locations,
 Coruscant: Galactic Senate,
 shielded Hoth or Death Star II locations,
 Jabba's Palace: Audience Chamber when Bo Shuda
is deployed there,
 Tatooine: Podrace Arena while either player has a
race total > 0. While Expand The Empire is deployed
on the Tatooine: Podrace Arena, the adjacent sites
are also prohibited from being battlegrounds while
either player has a race total > 0.
 <> Desert where a Sandwhirl is present.

The opposing opinion is that this only applies to a shielded DSII site, which apparently applies to the original Endor Shield. However, these is no reference in the AR to DSII sites ever being shielded (that I can find), and the card itself does not make this distinction as make with Hoth Energy Shield Rules (why would there not be an Endor Shield Rule if this were the case?).

Endor Shield

Deploy on Bunker. Imperials deploy -1 here. While Death Star II System orbits Endor and you control Bunker, at Death Star II System and each Death Star II site opponent may not deploy and must +3 force to move there. (Immune to Alter)

This all relates as to whether the new DSII: Chasm card is a battleground or not.

As a side note, I have had it previously ruled against me in a tournament that when playing BHBM that the throne room is never a battleground by this rule. The scenario there was Presence on the throne room, Luke, Vader and Palpatine present and playing force lightning to make Luke lost in the draw phase to cause 3 force loss from your destiny on the following turn.

[fungineer]

Interesting if true. I have had this ruled against me in a tournament where I have used presence on the DSII throne room with BHBM with vader present, and was told no force loss was possible from your destiny because DSII sites are never battlegrounds.

DS II sites with icons on both sides are battlegrounds, just like hoth sites, unless they are shielded.

Hoth sites are shielded by "1st Marker: Hoth Shield Generator"
DS II Locations are shielded by the Non-v Endor Shield. (and you meet it's requirements).

The issue is that in typical open play, I'm not sure the last time I've ever seen someone play Non-V endor shield. The virtual version doesn't shield it, thus any sites w/ icons for both sides remains a battleground.
Plus - unless DS is playing TTO, this is unlikely to ever come into play.

In your example, if Presence of the Force is on the throne room (giving it a LS icon) it becomes a battleground. (You said "presence" which is different. Having "presence" at a site won't make any non-battleground a battleground, as it doesn't add an icon. You can "battle" where you have presence, but that is different).

Likewise, if a DS or LS player plays hoth sites when 1st marker isn't on table, they'd never be shielded either. Thus, if they have icons on both sides they'd be battlegrounds.

[Gergall]

We'll clarify this AR entry to specify what is meant by "shielded Death Star II locations" so that there is no confusion.

Fungineer is correct that it was a shorthand way of referring to the non-V Endor Shield card.

[Solidsnack3]

Followup to this thread, are Death Star 2 sectors never battlegrounds too? It might be worth noting them as a separate line item if so:

Death Star II Sectors — Neither player may deploy, battle or initiate Force drains at a Death Star II Sector.

I would think that would ensure they are not battlegrounds even if icons were added to each side via PoTF and even if the shield was not in effect.

[Gergall]

Technically, DS2 Sectors (and also the Death Star: Trench site) are allowed to be battlegrounds, but it is extremely difficult to pull off. You are not allowed to deploy cards at those locations, so you cannot deploy Presence Of The Force there. You also could not move PotF there with Surprise.

R2-D2 (V) appears to be one of the only ways to make those locations into battlegrounds.

Additionally, Daughter Of Skywalker can add a LS icon at the DS Trench, temporarily making it a battleground while she makes her attack run.

[Solidsnack3]

Wow, I am impressed with the depth and scope of knowledge you have there, thanks for the clarification and now I see why the sectors aren't listed!

[Paul McPherson]

Technically, DS2 Sectors (and also the Death Star: Trench site) are allowed to be battlegrounds, but it is extremely difficult to pull off. You are not allowed to deploy cards at those locations, so you cannot deploy Presence Of The Force there. You also could not move PotF there with Surprise.

R2-D2 (V) appears to be one of the only ways to make those locations into battlegrounds.

Additionally, Daughter Of Skywalker can add a LS icon at the DS Trench, temporarily making it a battleground while she makes her attack run.

Surely the DS2 sectors would still not be battlegrounds since neither player can deploy or battle there regardless of the LS icon being added.

[Gergall]

Surely the DS2 sectors would still not be battlegrounds since neither player can deploy or battle there regardless of the LS icon being added.

It may not seem fair or logical, but I am not aware of anything in the rules that would prevent them from being battlegrounds.

With R2-D2 (V) having been released years ago, no one has broken this yet. Maybe it's time? Dependent on your opponent playing TTO though.

[arebelspy]

Technically, DS2 Sectors (and also the Death Star: Trench site) are allowed to be battlegrounds, but it is extremely difficult to pull off. You are not allowed to deploy cards at those locations, so you cannot deploy Presence Of The Force there. You also could not move PotF there with Surprise.

R2-D2 (V) appears to be one of the only ways to make those locations into battlegrounds.

Additionally, Daughter Of Skywalker can add a LS icon at the DS Trench, temporarily making it a battleground while she makes her attack run.

Surely the DS2 sectors would still not be battlegrounds since neither player can deploy or battle there regardless of the LS icon being added.

That's a really old definition of battleground, circa late 90s.

[Paul McPherson]

Technically, DS2 Sectors (and also the Death Star: Trench site) are allowed to be battlegrounds, but it is extremely difficult to pull off. You are not allowed to deploy cards at those locations, so you cannot deploy Presence Of The Force there. You also could not move PotF there with Surprise.

R2-D2 (V) appears to be one of the only ways to make those locations into battlegrounds.

Additionally, Daughter Of Skywalker can add a LS icon at the DS Trench, temporarily making it a battleground while she makes her attack run.

Surely the DS2 sectors would still not be battlegrounds since neither player can deploy or battle there regardless of the LS icon being added.

That's a really old definition of battleground, circa late 90s.

The funniest thing about this response is that I literally checked in the Special Edition Glossary for the definition before posting

[Hayes]

Technically, DS2 Sectors (and also the Death Star: Trench site) are allowed to be battlegrounds, but it is extremely difficult to pull off. You are not allowed to deploy cards at those locations, so you cannot deploy Presence Of The Force there. You also could not move PotF there with Surprise.

R2-D2 (V) appears to be one of the only ways to make those locations into battlegrounds.

Additionally, Daughter Of Skywalker can add a LS icon at the DS Trench, temporarily making it a battleground while she makes her attack run.

Surely the DS2 sectors would still not be battlegrounds since neither player can deploy or battle there regardless of the LS icon being added.

That's a really old definition of battleground, circa late 90s.

The funniest thing about this response is that I literally checked in the Special Edition Glossary for the definition before posting

You don't say?

Spoiler

Show

Disclaimer: this is old/outdated!

[Hazardville]

Any idea why the AC while Bo Shuda there is specifically excluded from being a battleground? On the surface it appears to be a relic of the Special Edition definition, since Bo Shuda prevents battles at the AC, but I don't really see another reason. I guess it could be a balancing thing to make Agents in the Court worse (because that's definitely needed ) but otherwise I'm not getting why.

[arebelspy]

Any idea why the AC while Bo Shuda there is specifically excluded from being a battleground? On the surface it appears to be a relic of the Special Edition definition, since Bo Shuda prevents battles at the AC, but I don't really see another reason. I guess it could be a balancing thing to make Agents in the Court worse (because that's definitely needed ) but otherwise I'm not getting why.

Imagine if it was a BG. You'd play it in a space deck to token throw down a very safe site for free drains. They try to avoid circumventing BP/BO, for balance purposes.

Sorry, we're getting off topic in the rules forum. Maybe start a new thread if that wasn't sufficient reason?