decklists

User avatar
imrahil327
Tournament Advocate
Posts: 31215
Joined: July 3rd, 2006, 3:51 am
Location: San Diego

Re: decklists

Post by imrahil327 »

Shewski wrote:What if event packages includes a SASE where the TD could send the decklists to the PC?
That's a good start- we've had a couple of people who have volunteered to scan decklists on a regular basis.


Image
Hunter wrote:Sebulba's W-L record is like...Always and 1. Tebow's is nowhere near that percentage.
allstarz97, about M:TG wrote:I feel like Michael Jordan playing baseball.

retwin316
LS Region: Corellia
LS Region: Corellia
Posts: 3898
Joined: March 14th, 2007, 4:55 pm
Location: Indianapolis, In
Contact:

Re: decklists

Post by retwin316 »

Brad Eier wrote:a debacle indeed.

anyway, a start would be, if maven is too busy with his job, which is a legit concern, he should be replaced by someone else to do his job within the pc
x 2

My bad, just read the thing about his brother. Sucks his brother has been in the hospital for like a month now. What happened to him?
Last edited by retwin316 on July 20th, 2010, 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Franchise
Reflections Gold
Reflections Gold
Posts: 12744
Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:20 pm
Location: Akron

Re: decklists

Post by The Franchise »

shewski: thats a good idea

schoenthal: its been 45 days. the decklists havent been posted. thats an issue.

maybe though shewskis idea seems plausible, so that way its a simple thing to mail in, so people can focus on more important things like family and careers

User avatar
imrahil327
Tournament Advocate
Posts: 31215
Joined: July 3rd, 2006, 3:51 am
Location: San Diego

Re: decklists

Post by imrahil327 »

retwin316 wrote:
Brad Eier wrote:a debacle indeed.

anyway, a start would be, if maven is too busy with his job, which is a legit concern, he should be replaced by someone else to do his job within the pc
x 2
x read the post right below that one.
Image
Hunter wrote:Sebulba's W-L record is like...Always and 1. Tebow's is nowhere near that percentage.
allstarz97, about M:TG wrote:I feel like Michael Jordan playing baseball.

retwin316
LS Region: Corellia
LS Region: Corellia
Posts: 3898
Joined: March 14th, 2007, 4:55 pm
Location: Indianapolis, In
Contact:

Re: decklists

Post by retwin316 »

imrahil327 wrote:
retwin316 wrote:
Brad Eier wrote:a debacle indeed.

anyway, a start would be, if maven is too busy with his job, which is a legit concern, he should be replaced by someone else to do his job within the pc
x 2
x read the post right below that one.
x read that I edited mine before you posted this. ;)

User avatar
imrahil327
Tournament Advocate
Posts: 31215
Joined: July 3rd, 2006, 3:51 am
Location: San Diego

Re: decklists

Post by imrahil327 »

All good. I'm not sure precisely what happened to his brother, he just said that he would be dealing with it for a little while.

Brad: I know that it's an issue, sorry you feel it overshadows his current situation.
Image
Hunter wrote:Sebulba's W-L record is like...Always and 1. Tebow's is nowhere near that percentage.
allstarz97, about M:TG wrote:I feel like Michael Jordan playing baseball.

The Real Al Borland

Re: decklists

Post by The Real Al Borland »

And what of all the other events that have yet to turn in decklists?

User avatar
imrahil327
Tournament Advocate
Posts: 31215
Joined: July 3rd, 2006, 3:51 am
Location: San Diego

Re: decklists

Post by imrahil327 »

The Real Al Borland wrote:And what of all the other events that have yet to turn in decklists?
I was unaware we were missing others, I will check on them if someone has a list.
Image
Hunter wrote:Sebulba's W-L record is like...Always and 1. Tebow's is nowhere near that percentage.
allstarz97, about M:TG wrote:I feel like Michael Jordan playing baseball.

The Real Al Borland

Re: decklists

Post by The Real Al Borland »

imrahil327 wrote:
The Real Al Borland wrote:And what of all the other events that have yet to turn in decklists?
I was unaware we were missing others, I will check on them if someone has a list.
I ain't no narc. And remember that snitches get stitches.

User avatar
deadbody
Lead Moderator
Posts: 5848
Joined: November 22nd, 2003, 10:45 pm
Location: Banning anyone that looks at me cross-eyed :)

Re: decklists

Post by deadbody »

Possible Bespin regionals aren't in Yet, Brady took them and I haven't heard about them since. I think he is in Alaska for Work right now, so it's possible a polar bear ate them.
Terron wrote:Does some RPG book list the Rockwell hardness of AT-AT ankles? Can't we settle this like real virgins?
Image Image

Like good beer? http://www.surlybrewing.com

User avatar
mr007agent
Member
Posts: 6881
Joined: October 30th, 2002, 1:43 pm
Location: South Houston, TX
Contact:

Re: decklists

Post by mr007agent »

I will not post Dantooine Regionals until all other lists are posted. Also, you can media mail me any lists to my home address. I think it costs about a dollar. PM me for my address.
Michael Richards
Rogue 84
PC Volunteer
Shadow 43 - Dantooine Flight Leader
http://omega.uta.edu/~mhr7680/dantooineswccg.html
-007-
ImageImage

User avatar
Airdog2003
Member
Posts: 6697
Joined: July 31st, 2007, 2:49 pm
Location: I am where I am...

Re: decklists

Post by Airdog2003 »

As a newer player, I loved having decklists from events to help me figure out what the pro's were playing and how they were tech-ing to beat certain decks/strategies...that said, I'm not sure that we need to have lists from nearly every single event posted on the net. It would seem to me that if we posted lists 3x per year after each of the three major events we would accomplish our goal of helping our new players learn unique deck building stratedgies while at the same time, reducing the workload on our TDs and PC volunteers. This would also allow people to keep some of their "tech" more secretive and enable them to test it out in some of the smaller events before showing it off at a big one (ex: the MPC).

For these reasons, it might make sense for the PC to alter their policy on decklists posting. They could require lists to be posted for only the following three events: Texas Mini-Worlds, The MPC and Worlds. These events are widely regarded as the three "major events" each year and their attendance levels over the past three seasons support this notion. Posting decklists only after these three events would still allow other players to see the lists that are "setting the meta" and would cut out one of the extra hoops TDs have to jump through when organizing and running smaller level events such as regionals and unfortunately, Nationals. While some people may argue that "it would be nice" to see lists from Nationals since those events tend to be close to worlds and after a major set release," the players running those events could leverage the advantage of "getting a feel for the meta before worlds" as an incentive to encourage players to attend Nationals.

What are your thoughts on this idea?
Kevbozzz wrote: And he rose out of the ashes of scrubdom, like a mighty Phoenix.
Aaron Nelson
Star Wars is fun!
Props to my Lakers - 2009 & 2010 World Champions...suck it Boston!


Image Image

User avatar
darkjediknight11
Communications Advocate
Posts: 23140
Joined: April 17th, 2005, 5:26 pm
Location: Chicago
GEMP Username: djk11

Re: decklists

Post by darkjediknight11 »

i'd say nationals should still have lists
-Keith Brown
Image

The Franchise
Reflections Gold
Reflections Gold
Posts: 12744
Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:20 pm
Location: Akron

Re: decklists

Post by The Franchise »

Airdog2003 wrote:As a newer player, I loved having decklists from events to help me figure out what the pro's were playing and how they were tech-ing to beat certain decks/strategies...that said, I'm not sure that we need to have lists from nearly every single event posted on the net. It would seem to me that if we posted lists 3x per year after each of the three major events we would accomplish our goal of helping our new players learn unique deck building stratedgies while at the same time, reducing the workload on our TDs and PC volunteers. This would also allow people to keep some of their "tech" more secretive and enable them to test it out in some of the smaller events before showing it off at a big one (ex: the MPC).

For these reasons, it might make sense for the PC to alter their policy on decklists posting. They could require lists to be posted for only the following three events: Texas Mini-Worlds, The MPC and Worlds. These events are widely regarded as the three "major events" each year and their attendance levels over the past three seasons support this notion. Posting decklists only after these three events would still allow other players to see the lists that are "setting the meta" and would cut out one of the extra hoops TDs have to jump through when organizing and running smaller level events such as regionals and unfortunately, Nationals. While some people may argue that "it would be nice" to see lists from Nationals since those events tend to be close to worlds and after a major set release," the players running those events could leverage the advantage of "getting a feel for the meta before worlds" as an incentive to encourage players to attend Nationals.

What are your thoughts on this idea?

this idea is awful.

we have a problem- td's refuse to DO WHAT IS REQUIRED OF THEM. they are irresponsible and not accountable.

the solution is not to CHANGE WHAT IS REQUIRED

the solution is to HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE


anyway the solution has been suggested. make each tourney kit cost like 3 more dollars, and send a big self addressed, postage prepaid envelope. they just take the lists, put them in the envelope, seal it, and put it in the mail.

honestly, its pretty bad that states events dont use decklists.

dont forget, decklists are not just some old school hassle/formality. they are a way to make sure players dont cheat by changing cards in their deck.

maybe its not a big problem. but, cheating does happen in swccg. this is widely accepted, and a reason why people like sos so much, cause it mitigates cheating to an extent.



and here is the thing. if we had a policy where if a td didnt send in the decklists, they were banned from running or playing swccg or posting on the forums for a year, the idea would be that the threat of such a ban would motivate people. the goal of the policy wouldnt be to ban 20 td's. it would be to make sure td's DO WHAT LITTLE IS ASKED OF THEM


anyway i dont know if a ban policy is needed. but lets do the envelope thing. its simple, and doesnt require endorsing td incompetence

The Franchise
Reflections Gold
Reflections Gold
Posts: 12744
Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:20 pm
Location: Akron

Re: decklists

Post by The Franchise »

last post was attacking the idea not the proponent of it. aaron nelson is still one of my 5 favorite asian swccg players

User avatar
Airdog2003
Member
Posts: 6697
Joined: July 31st, 2007, 2:49 pm
Location: I am where I am...

Re: decklists

Post by Airdog2003 »

Right, I get that the requirement is for decklists to be filled out for each event to stop cheating is good and I never said that that would change. I was talking about the requirement for POSTING the lists for everyone else to see. It seems that the issue isn't to get people to fill out lists, it's to get TDs to post them. I think the envelope idea is interesting but what's to say that a TD isn't just going to put off sending the lists into the PC because they "don't have time to stop by the post office" or whatever. And the idea of banning people for not posting lists, while prehaps logical to some, isn't going to fly at this time because the PC doesn't want to have to play the bad cop any more than it already does.

IMO, requiring decklists to be POSTED for an 8 player regionals event is dumb and while I agree that it should be done THIS YEAR since it's current policy, my post was more of an idea for next years season should the PC tournament committee wish to review it. I think that if you're not getting compliance with a "corporate" or organizational policy, it's worth taking a few minutes to review that policy and reevaluate if it makes sense and is still relevant in it's current form. In this case, I think that there may be an opportunity to alter it so it's a bit more relevant with today's swccg tournament scene. If people disagree that's fine.
Kevbozzz wrote: And he rose out of the ashes of scrubdom, like a mighty Phoenix.
Aaron Nelson
Star Wars is fun!
Props to my Lakers - 2009 & 2010 World Champions...suck it Boston!


Image Image

User avatar
spideyguy0
Member
Posts: 7657
Joined: January 1st, 2003, 1:57 pm
Location: New York, NY
Contact:

Re: decklists

Post by spideyguy0 »

I would support Aaron's idea being implemented next year.
Casey A. - New York, NY
Image Image

The Franchise
Reflections Gold
Reflections Gold
Posts: 12744
Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:20 pm
Location: Akron

Re: decklists

Post by The Franchise »

the envelope thing really is simple, and doesnt require a wholesale policy change. i think its a better idea than letting lazy td's be rewarded for being lazy.

also, the policy is kind of bootleg to change now. like, so in 2005, no one could touch team ohio. but our lists got posted. then people looked at them, and they warped their decks to beat them, costing the crew a world title. it happens, its good for info to be out there.

its always been a part of the game. changing it now seems bootleg.

magic is a better game, and better run, than swccg. they put lists up all over. it helps drive the meta forward, helps new and bad players get good, and forces top players to adapt and prepare for hate on their deck.

posting lists promotes a better game.

anyway, till the lists are posted, the event isnt official, so for all intents and purposes, you are still west national champ aaron!

User avatar
puck71
Member
Posts: 12897
Joined: February 17th, 2008, 8:59 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN
GEMP Username: puck71

Re: decklists

Post by puck71 »

I like both Aaron and Brad's ideas. Meaning, I wouldn't have a problem having decklists be required for fewer events, but for events they are required for the SASE idea is really, really good.
John Anderson
Proofing, Tournament Committee, GEMP Team

User avatar
fishfleas
Member
Posts: 4128
Joined: April 7th, 2005, 10:53 am
Location: Indiana, Marion
Contact:

Re: decklists

Post by fishfleas »

I think the community just needs to be more open and less secretive about decks. It would be nice to see some decent decks posted on here from top level players. I think that would help to drive up play level accross the board. If we drive up play level, then people are bound to want to participate more because they think they can win more. If that happens then we start to have better turnouts, and possibly even more players travelling. More turnouts encourages more interest from outside people. More openness helps those outside people if they wish to return or start playign the game.

All that said I would support Aaron's idea. While I do feel TDs should uphold their end of their responsibilities, I think banning them will only hurt the community. There just aren't enough people willing to step up and TD. Why in the world would we want to dissuade them from wanting to TD by threatening them with possible excessive penalties. That just doesn't make sense.

The envelope idea isn't too bad, but I agree that people could just forget to mail them or not get around to mailing them. That is very common with other mailings, why would it be different for this?

So yeah... I would say go with Aaron's idea, but at the same time I think we as a community need to share more with each other and just enjoy this game for the great game that it is. We're playing it for fun. I mean none of us are making a living off it. This is just a hobby, and there is no reason to be up in arms at each other. Just enjoy it, share ideas and strategies, and have fun with the game that has had the longest running streak of being played post death of the CCG production.

Post Reply

Return to “2010 Eastern Nationals - Greenwood, IN - July 17 & 18, 2010”