Day 2 Decks

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Re: Day 2 Decks

Post by Hunter »

allstarz97 wrote:Day 3 we stuck with profit cuz it was so good for us day 2 (and it was so good for us last year day 2 and day 3) that we couldn't bring ourselves to switch but that was a mistake.
Can't tell for sure who "we" is in that sentence. I don't know if there was any collaboration between the Albany and KToD folks, when it comes to Day 3 deck selection. If "we" is just yourself and Baroni, then it's less of a mistake, but if "we" is all 5 of the players who used Profit in Day 3, then it is a huge mistake. And not just because several (if not all) of the 5 of you had used Profit the day before, but just because you're all playing the same deck. If all 5 of you had switched away from Profit, but you all switch TO the same deck, that's not really much better, because you're all still playing one deck, and if someone brings something that destroys that one deck, then none of you are likely to get past it. Diversity is the name of the game, when it comes to team success in a Day 3 type of setting. Again, I don't know if you and Chu were working together, when picking your Day 3 decks, but IF you were (and IF you had any sort of a money split) then your deck choices for Day 3 should be very near to polar opposites. Dan is very unlikely to be able to fend you off, and then fend Chu off too, if you are attacking him from completely different angles. But if he can beat one of you who is playing Deck X, he very well might beat the other, if the other is also playing Deck X.

5 Profit decks and 4 Endor Ops decks in Day 3. Three of each went down in the quarterfinals, and sure enough, the rest got polished off in the semis. 0 Profit decks and 0 Endor Ops decks in the final, despite representing 9 of the 16 Day 3 decks. So IF you guys did discuss your Day 3 deck selections, then you definitely shot yourselves in the foot by not diversifying enough.

But, having stepped on more than my share of Day 3 Landmines, I can certainly attest to the fact that navigating through it is never easy. So congrats to all of the Day 3 participants.


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Re: Day 2 Decks

Post by allstarz97 »

Hunter wrote:
allstarz97 wrote:Day 3 we stuck with profit cuz it was so good for us day 2 (and it was so good for us last year day 2 and day 3) that we couldn't bring ourselves to switch but that was a mistake.
Can't tell for sure who "we" is in that sentence. I don't know if there was any collaboration between the Albany and KToD folks, when it comes to Day 3 deck selection. If "we" is just yourself and Baroni, then it's less of a mistake, but if "we" is all 5 of the players who used Profit in Day 3, then it is a huge mistake. And not just because several (if not all) of the 5 of you had used Profit the day before, but just because you're all playing the same deck. If all 5 of you had switched away from Profit, but you all switch TO the same deck, that's not really much better, because you're all still playing one deck, and if someone brings something that destroys that one deck, then none of you are likely to get past it. Diversity is the name of the game, when it comes to team success in a Day 3 type of setting. Again, I don't know if you and Chu were working together, when picking your Day 3 decks, but IF you were (and IF you had any sort of a money split) then your deck choices for Day 3 should be very near to polar opposites. Dan is very unlikely to be able to fend you off, and then fend Chu off too, if you are attacking him from completely different angles. But if he can beat one of you who is playing Deck X, he very well might beat the other, if the other is also playing Deck X.

5 Profit decks and 4 Endor Ops decks in Day 3. Three of each went down in the quarterfinals, and sure enough, the rest got polished off in the semis. 0 Profit decks and 0 Endor Ops decks in the final, despite representing 9 of the 16 Day 3 decks. So IF you guys did discuss your Day 3 deck selections, then you definitely shot yourselves in the foot by not diversifying enough.

But, having stepped on more than my share of Day 3 Landmines, I can certainly attest to the fact that navigating through it is never easy. So congrats to all of the Day 3 participants.

Me chu and baroni teamed, chu gave sokol our profit list and the four of us ran it day 2, chriss twigg switched to it day 3....

Agree 100% that not switching decks was especially bad this year but time and preperation were not on our side this year. The morning of me and steve thought about switching light decks to wys and ls senate but just didn't have the time

I was very frusterated with our day 3 preparation but I guess it just wasn't meant to be.

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Re: Day 2 Decks

Post by retwin316 »

It is pretty hard to prepare for everything, and it is really hard to just disregard a deck you have had so much success with already. It is also pretty hard to just make new decks on the spot at such a late hour.

You now know how I felt at East Nats the year I won my first 9 games, and lost my last and didn't win it, but I had only myself to blame for not changing my deck, even if it was retardedly good.

You guys all had amazing showings though, and again showed us all how good you are. Hope to see you back next year, and even more so hope to get a friggin good matchup for once! :)

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Re: Day 2 Decks

Post by mryellow »

Hunter wrote:
allstarz97 wrote:Day 3 we stuck with profit cuz it was so good for us day 2 (and it was so good for us last year day 2 and day 3) that we couldn't bring ourselves to switch but that was a mistake.
Can't tell for sure who "we" is in that sentence. I don't know if there was any collaboration between the Albany and KToD folks, when it comes to Day 3 deck selection. If "we" is just yourself and Baroni, then it's less of a mistake, but if "we" is all 5 of the players who used Profit in Day 3, then it is a huge mistake. And not just because several (if not all) of the 5 of you had used Profit the day before, but just because you're all playing the same deck. If all 5 of you had switched away from Profit, but you all switch TO the same deck, that's not really much better, because you're all still playing one deck, and if someone brings something that destroys that one deck, then none of you are likely to get past it. Diversity is the name of the game, when it comes to team success in a Day 3 type of setting. Again, I don't know if you and Chu were working together, when picking your Day 3 decks, but IF you were (and IF you had any sort of a money split) then your deck choices for Day 3 should be very near to polar opposites. Dan is very unlikely to be able to fend you off, and then fend Chu off too, if you are attacking him from completely different angles. But if he can beat one of you who is playing Deck X, he very well might beat the other, if the other is also playing Deck X.

5 Profit decks and 4 Endor Ops decks in Day 3. Three of each went down in the quarterfinals, and sure enough, the rest got polished off in the semis. 0 Profit decks and 0 Endor Ops decks in the final, despite representing 9 of the 16 Day 3 decks. So IF you guys did discuss your Day 3 deck selections, then you definitely shot yourselves in the foot by not diversifying enough.

But, having stepped on more than my share of Day 3 Landmines, I can certainly attest to the fact that navigating through it is never easy. So congrats to all of the Day 3 participants.
Also I used Profit spies from 2009, so it's the same objective but a completely different feel.
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Re: Day 2 Decks

Post by allstarz97 »

retwin316 wrote:It is pretty hard to prepare for everything, and it is really hard to just disregard a deck you have had so much success with already. It is also pretty hard to just make new decks on the spot at such a late hour.

You now know how I felt at East Nats the year I won my first 9 games, and lost my last and didn't win it, but I had only myself to blame for not changing my deck, even if it was retardedly good.

You guys all had amazing showings though, and again showed us all how good you are. Hope to see you back next year, and even more so hope to get a friggin good matchup for once! :)

Thanks Fred.

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Re: Day 2 Decks

Post by Farmer Bob »

Hunter wrote:
allstarz97 wrote:Day 3 we stuck with profit cuz it was so good for us day 2 (and it was so good for us last year day 2 and day 3) that we couldn't bring ourselves to switch but that was a mistake.
Can't tell for sure who "we" is in that sentence. I don't know if there was any collaboration between the Albany and KToD folks, when it comes to Day 3 deck selection. If "we" is just yourself and Baroni, then it's less of a mistake, but if "we" is all 5 of the players who used Profit in Day 3, then it is a huge mistake. And not just because several (if not all) of the 5 of you had used Profit the day before, but just because you're all playing the same deck. If all 5 of you had switched away from Profit, but you all switch TO the same deck, that's not really much better, because you're all still playing one deck, and if someone brings something that destroys that one deck, then none of you are likely to get past it. Diversity is the name of the game, when it comes to team success in a Day 3 type of setting. Again, I don't know if you and Chu were working together, when picking your Day 3 decks, but IF you were (and IF you had any sort of a money split) then your deck choices for Day 3 should be very near to polar opposites. Dan is very unlikely to be able to fend you off, and then fend Chu off too, if you are attacking him from completely different angles. But if he can beat one of you who is playing Deck X, he very well might beat the other, if the other is also playing Deck X.

5 Profit decks and 4 Endor Ops decks in Day 3. Three of each went down in the quarterfinals, and sure enough, the rest got polished off in the semis. 0 Profit decks and 0 Endor Ops decks in the final, despite representing 9 of the 16 Day 3 decks. So IF you guys did discuss your Day 3 deck selections, then you definitely shot yourselves in the foot by not diversifying enough.

But, having stepped on more than my share of Day 3 Landmines, I can certainly attest to the fact that navigating through it is never easy. So congrats to all of the Day 3 participants.
The situation Hunter is talking about is basically '05 Worlds. All of TO/Reid brought Endor Mains/TRM and Scum to Day 3 and Drew had a Sonn[v] mains deck with a good number of specific counters to Scum and then HD.

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Re: Day 2 Decks

Post by retwin316 »

Farmer Bob wrote:
Hunter wrote:
allstarz97 wrote:Day 3 we stuck with profit cuz it was so good for us day 2 (and it was so good for us last year day 2 and day 3) that we couldn't bring ourselves to switch but that was a mistake.
Can't tell for sure who "we" is in that sentence. I don't know if there was any collaboration between the Albany and KToD folks, when it comes to Day 3 deck selection. If "we" is just yourself and Baroni, then it's less of a mistake, but if "we" is all 5 of the players who used Profit in Day 3, then it is a huge mistake. And not just because several (if not all) of the 5 of you had used Profit the day before, but just because you're all playing the same deck. If all 5 of you had switched away from Profit, but you all switch TO the same deck, that's not really much better, because you're all still playing one deck, and if someone brings something that destroys that one deck, then none of you are likely to get past it. Diversity is the name of the game, when it comes to team success in a Day 3 type of setting. Again, I don't know if you and Chu were working together, when picking your Day 3 decks, but IF you were (and IF you had any sort of a money split) then your deck choices for Day 3 should be very near to polar opposites. Dan is very unlikely to be able to fend you off, and then fend Chu off too, if you are attacking him from completely different angles. But if he can beat one of you who is playing Deck X, he very well might beat the other, if the other is also playing Deck X.

5 Profit decks and 4 Endor Ops decks in Day 3. Three of each went down in the quarterfinals, and sure enough, the rest got polished off in the semis. 0 Profit decks and 0 Endor Ops decks in the final, despite representing 9 of the 16 Day 3 decks. So IF you guys did discuss your Day 3 deck selections, then you definitely shot yourselves in the foot by not diversifying enough.

But, having stepped on more than my share of Day 3 Landmines, I can certainly attest to the fact that navigating through it is never easy. So congrats to all of the Day 3 participants.
The situation Hunter is talking about is basically '05 Worlds. All of TO/Reid brought Endor Mains/TRM and Scum to Day 3 and Drew had a Sonn[v] mains deck with a good number of specific counters to Scum and then HD.
There was no sonn v in 2005. I am pretty sure he used TRM.

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Re: Day 2 Decks

Post by gogolen »

I thought in 05 that card was stupid broken leading to its first of several errata's
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Re: Day 2 Decks

Post by retwin316 »

gogolen wrote:I thought in 05 that card was stupid broken leading to its first of several errata's
If it was, no one used it in top 8. I don't remember a single person using it in 2006 either, and maybe even 2007.

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Re: Day 2 Decks

Post by Farmer Bob »

Drew claims it was Sonn[v]. Have to check to see if we have the decklists around; or if Tim Simon is around; we all stayed up late (Tim, Drew, Rory, Me, and I believe maybe Reegesk? - with it mostly being Tim/Drew working on the decks).

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Re: Day 2 Decks

Post by WiseMarsellus »

sonn v came out some time between summer 06 and winter 07
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Re: Day 2 Decks

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WiseMarsellus wrote:sonn v came out some time between summer 06 and winter 07
Strange that no one ever used it those 2 years, or maybe I just never noticed?

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Re: Day 2 Decks

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Farmer Bob wrote: The situation Hunter is talking about is basically '05 Worlds. All of TO/Reid brought Endor Mains/TRM and Scum to Day 3 and Drew had a Sonn[v] mains deck with a good number of specific counters to Scum and then HD.
Drew did not play Sonn(v) Mains. He played Throne Room.
Farmer Bob wrote:Drew claims it was Sonn[v].
Okay, but he's wrong. Whose memory ya gonna trust? Mine or his? He played Throne Room.

And no, I didn't have Worlds '05 in mind when I typed my earlier post. Yes, that might be another example of the same mistake. Team Ohio/Reidtech may not have diversified their Day 3 deck selection enough either. But I didn't have that other example in mind when typing the post. And in fact, you don't need any other example, for what I wrote to still be true.

An example of proper Day 3 deck selection would probably be Worlds 2003, and the alliance of Elia/Gogolen/Shaw. Now, I was not really buddies with any of those three guys at the time, so I don't know all the details on their strategy, but if I remember right, they were all on the same half of the draw, along with Bastian. And they used deck diversification to ensure that if Bastian dropped the hammer on them in the quarterfinals, he would face completely different decks in the semis. Decks that would be bad matchups for him, if he faced good matchups in the quarters. Guaranteeing that Bastian could not punch straight through their team, and advance to the final confrontation, no matter WHAT he did. And indeed he did not/could not advance to the final. But if they had all played the same decks, and they guessed wrong about what he was playing, then he COULD have punched right through all of them. So I think they did it right, and that some other people have done it wrong.

Maybe the problem is that Reid/TO didn't expect to need decent matchups to beat Drew Scott. And that Desai/Chu didn't expect to need decent matchups to beat Dan Kim. When you're the stronger player, there can be a tendency to get penis-y, and think "I don't need to gameplan for him, he needs to gameplan for ME." And "I don't need to worry about what he'll be playing, he needs to worry about what I'LL be playing." But matchups trump player ability, so if a bunch of stronger players choose the same deck, but pick WRONG, then they are all going down with that ship. And (to someone like myself, who is on the outside looking in) that appears to be exactly what happened.
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Re: Day 2 Decks

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As someone who sat in a room with Drew and helped him build his world championship winning TRM in 2005, and helped him test it later that night........I can confirm it was TRM.

We figured he would likely play against Scum x3 on Day 3...........it ended up working out. Wow that seems like forever ago now....good memories.
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Re: Day 2 Decks

Post by JarJarDrinks »

Sonn(v) came out right before the first MPC. Which I think put's it @ around December 06/January 07.
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Re: Day 2 Decks

Post by Aglets »

Sonn (V) came out in the old virtual set 12 right?

At worlds 2005 I think the latest set was 10 and then there were like preview cards from 11. Remember that goofy A wing that was supposed to hurt /\ and \/ ? fun stuff
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Re: Day 2 Decks

Post by Uber-Obi »

Maybe another answer why they didn't change decks was: Nobody wanted to play the 'bad' deck!
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Re: Day 2 Decks

Post by CategoryOneGames.com »

Don't know if anyone has really talked about decks, but two cool ones that were newer.

Starting Sonn and the 2/2 Coruscant Bar, getting Yoda there first turn and the 3/0 JCC first turn on most turns and draining for 3 next turn, it plays a lot like the 3/2 Sonn start. This was a Kyle Krueger production.

HD V also had a cool start with the Bounty Hunter card and getting the 1/0 CC Prison and 4-Lom with Gun V and starting that whole mess first turn. Then playing CC Sabaac late game. Sort of a cool thing.
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Re: Day 2 Decks

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CategoryOneGames.com wrote:Don't know if anyone has really talked about decks, but two cool ones that were newer.

Starting Sonn and the 2/2 Coruscant Bar, getting Yoda there first turn and the 3/0 JCC first turn on most turns and draining for 3 next turn, it plays a lot like the 3/2 Sonn start. This was a Kyle Krueger production.

HD V also had a cool start with the Bounty Hunter card and getting the 1/0 CC Prison and 4-Lom with Gun V and starting that whole mess first turn. Then playing CC Sabaac late game. Sort of a cool thing.
that hdv was brian herolds deck from the MPC, so its old news, but its a neat deck, but i think its run its course

the sonnv krueger deck is pretty rad
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Re: Day 2 Decks

Post by gogolen »

Hunter wrote:
An example of proper Day 3 deck selection would probably be Worlds 2003, and the alliance of Elia/Gogolen/Shaw. Now, I was not really buddies with any of those three guys at the time, so I don't know all the details on their strategy, but if I remember right, they were all on the same half of the draw, along with Bastian. And they used deck diversification to ensure that if Bastian dropped the hammer on them in the quarterfinals, he would face completely different decks in the semis. Decks that would be bad matchups for him, if he faced good matchups in the quarters. Guaranteeing that Bastian could not punch straight through their team, and advance to the final confrontation, no matter WHAT he did. And indeed he did not/could not advance to the final. But if they had all played the same decks, and they guessed wrong about what he was playing, then he COULD have punched right through all of them. So I think they did it right, and that some other people have done it wrong.

.
Yep, that's exactly what we did. We were all on the same side with Bastian, I played bastian first. So I built decks that hosed the decks he played on Day 2 in case he didnt switch and just played them again. And then we guesstimated what else he might switch to, and Elia and Shaw both played decks that would have favorable matchups against those potentials. He switched decks, hosed me, and Shaw beat him in the Semis to get to the finals against Chu. Obviously we all wanted to play decks that would be strong enough to go all the way to the title, but in that situation we just all decided to take the team mentality and make sure that 1 of the 3 of us made the finals.
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