Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

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Re: Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

Post by Hunter »

Gergall wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 2:01 pm
More on this today (8/14) guards had been filling out surveillance logs claiming to check on Epstein as ordered every 30 minutes but video records show that they weren't actually checking.

I'm not sure if anyone wants to split hairs over "incompetence" vs "laziness" but for my purposes they cover the same idea - job was not done properly and for such a high profile case, Barr's neck ought to be on the line.
It is neither incompetence nor laziness if the guards weren't checking by design, having been instructed not to check. :???



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Re: Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

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Hunter wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 2:33 pm
Gergall wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 2:01 pm
More on this today (8/14) guards had been filling out surveillance logs claiming to check on Epstein as ordered every 30 minutes but video records show that they weren't actually checking.

I'm not sure if anyone wants to split hairs over "incompetence" vs "laziness" but for my purposes they cover the same idea - job was not done properly and for such a high profile case, Barr's neck ought to be on the line.
It is neither incompetence nor laziness if the guards weren't checking by design, having been instructed not to check. :???
What if the laziest and most incompetent guards were specifically chosen?
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Re: Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

Post by Gergall »

Hunter wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 2:30 pm
Him having no idea what he was talking about and then trying to cover for it wouldn't win your wager though. He had to *admit* to having no idea what he was talking about, cuz you said:
Gergall wrote:
August 13th, 2019, 4:41 pm
I wager that MF will come back and admit that he was completely out of the loop on who Epstein was and what he was involved in.
That didn't happen.
LOL I tried to move the goalposts.

You win.
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Re: Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

Post by Gergall »

Gergall wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 9:35 pm
It's a federal prison. Barr oversees this extremely high profile prisoner. So is Barr in on it, or is he incompetent?

It has to be one or the other, right?
Just a reminder that this is where my discussion about incompetence is stemming from. Barr should be (and won't be) held accountable.
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Re: Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

Post by Hunter »

Gergall wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 3:35 pm
You win.
Yay!
Gergall wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 3:36 pm
Gergall wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 9:35 pm
It's a federal prison. Barr oversees this extremely high profile prisoner. So is Barr in on it, or is he incompetent?

It has to be one or the other, right?
Just a reminder that this is where my discussion about incompetence is stemming from. Barr should be (and won't be) held accountable.
Yeah, I don't see any reason why Barr can't be "in on it." But like you say, I wouldn't expect too much of the heat to fall on him directly. People wouldn't do this sort of thing if they didn't think it was possible to get away with it. I mean, everyone and their dog was saying "This guy is about to get Hillary'd/suicided. Just you watch and see." And then The Powers That Be went ahead and did it anyway, even though everybody was ready for it and watching for it. And now, none of those soothsayers (or their dogs) can seem to find any means of recourse, so.... :?:

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Re: Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

Post by mikefrench »

1) you all are jerks and this has reinforced that my decision around a year ago to abandon this community was a very good decision
2) the goalposts were moved by YOU ALL, not by me - i was contesting the phrasing "extremely high-profile" which i think was hyperbolic, and if you go back you'll notice that gergall then changed his own assertion to "high-profile," removing the "extremely" after i contested it. you all then jumped on me for the "run of the mill pedophile" phrase which i still think is accurate, if you actually understand what he was originally investigated and charged by the state prosecutors with (before federal prosecutors ie Acosta took over).
3) i think the place where we're not seeing each other's side clearly is because i was looking at it from the perspective of the criminal justice system. this is a system that has a multitude of mass murderers in its custody, and what epstein pled guilty to originally is not close to making him a special case for the criminal justice system. it's also not surprising that he would want to commit suicide, and like i said earlier, that makes it fairly embarrassing that the system allowed him to, but this is a system that does not care about the lives of the people it oversees AT ALL, so it's not really that surprising to me.

i don't expect this post will do anything productive, so go ahead and dunk on me some more if you want, i don't really care
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Re: Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

Post by mikefrench »

Gergall wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 3:36 pm
Gergall wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 9:35 pm
It's a federal prison. Barr oversees this extremely high profile prisoner. So is Barr in on it, or is he incompetent?

It has to be one or the other, right?
Just a reminder that this is where my discussion about incompetence is stemming from. Barr should be (and won't be) held accountable.
i completely disagree that barr should be held accountable for this.
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Re: Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

Post by mikefrench »

JarJarDrinks wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 2:38 pm
Hunter wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 2:33 pm
Gergall wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 2:01 pm
More on this today (8/14) guards had been filling out surveillance logs claiming to check on Epstein as ordered every 30 minutes but video records show that they weren't actually checking.

I'm not sure if anyone wants to split hairs over "incompetence" vs "laziness" but for my purposes they cover the same idea - job was not done properly and for such a high profile case, Barr's neck ought to be on the line.
It is neither incompetence nor laziness if the guards weren't checking by design, having been instructed not to check. :???
What if the laziest and most incompetent guards were specifically chosen?
i don't think laziness or incompetence is the factor here, i think it's wanton disregard for the lives of the imprisoned population.
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Re: Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

Post by Gergall »

Not gonna reply right now other than just to defend myself where I was called out:
i was contesting the phrasing "extremely high-profile" which i think was hyperbolic, and if you go back you'll notice that gergall then changed his own assertion to "high-profile," removing the "extremely" after i contested it.
I only shortened it for the sake of brevity. Let it be known that I still maintain he was "extremely high profile". I do not rescind the "extremely" portion of it.
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Re: Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

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Pop quiz:

What in the world could possibly have less of an impact on the lives of everyday Americans than who takes the fall for this * face killing himself?
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Re: Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

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mikefrench wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 5:09 pm
you all are jerks
Man Hunter even told people to stop pointing out your ridiculousness. :halfrobot:
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Re: Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

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mikefrench wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 5:09 pm
2) the goalposts were moved by YOU ALL, not by me - i was contesting the phrasing "extremely high-profile" which i think was hyperbolic, and if you go back you'll notice that gergall then changed his own assertion to "high-profile," removing the "extremely" after i contested it.

Just because Gergall didn't use the word "extremely" again doesn't mean he was retracting it and moving the goal posts. And he was right about it, which is why WiseMarsellus also chimed in with "he was probably the highest profile prisoner in the world other than lula." If Top 2 in the world doesn't qualify as "extremely" to you then you're probably using the term incorrectly.
1) you all are jerks and this has reinforced that my decision around a year ago to abandon this community was a very good decision
Bye, Felicia.

I don't think I'll miss the company of anyone who refers to any suicides as "banal." And especially won't miss the company of someone who says something like "we haven’t ever cared about old men raping and subjugating young girls in this country." Pretty sure that "in this country" the raping of the underage is steadily and consistently regarded as THE most abhorrent and detestable of all crimes. And that's not news, because it's been that way for the ENTIRETY of our lives.
i don't expect this post will do anything productive, so go ahead and dunk on me some more if you want, i don't really care
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Re: Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

Post by WiseMarsellus »

mikefrench wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 5:09 pm
1) you all are jerks and this has reinforced that my decision around a year ago to abandon this community was a very good decision
2) the goalposts were moved by YOU ALL, not by me - i was contesting the phrasing "extremely high-profile" which i think was hyperbolic, and if you go back you'll notice that gergall then changed his own assertion to "high-profile," removing the "extremely" after i contested it. you all then jumped on me for the "run of the mill pedophile" phrase which i still think is accurate, if you actually understand what he was originally investigated and charged by the state prosecutors with (before federal prosecutors ie Acosta took over).
3) i think the place where we're not seeing each other's side clearly is because i was looking at it from the perspective of the criminal justice system. this is a system that has a multitude of mass murderers in its custody, and what epstein pled guilty to originally is not close to making him a special case for the criminal justice system. it's also not surprising that he would want to commit suicide, and like i said earlier, that makes it fairly embarrassing that the system allowed him to, but this is a system that does not care about the lives of the people it oversees AT ALL, so it's not really that surprising to me.

i don't expect this post will do anything productive, so go ahead and dunk on me some more if you want, i don't really care
perhaps we were just looking at this in separate ways and i think there's still room for us all to be on the same page here. if you're talking about the crimes epstein was charged with, sure, he's not super atypical. however, i think that is not what most people are talking about when they refer to epstein as being extremely high profile. that would be more because of the potential information to be gleaned through epstein's cooperation. if you're looking at it primarily through that lens, would you agree with our characterization of epstein?

like i also mentioned lula as another high-profile prisoner. certainly i did not do so because i was shocked by the trumped-up charges against him. i think people can be high-profile in a variety of different ways. and the reason epstein was important is the same reason i think he should have been an extremely high protection priority: he had information that is potentially damning to many of the world's wealthy and powerful people who have the means and the motive to have him killed, or to allow him to kill himself
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Re: Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

Post by mikefrench »

Hunter wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 5:35 pm
I don't think I'll miss the company of anyone who refers to any suicides as "banal." And especially won't miss the company of someone who says something like "we haven’t ever cared about old men raping and subjugating young girls in this country." Pretty sure that "in this country" the raping of the underage is steadily and consistently regarded as THE most abhorrent and detestable of all crimes. And that's not news, because it's been that way for the ENTIRETY of our lives.
how many news stories of US judges blaming young girls for their rapes should i post? how many news stories of sexual assailants of underage children where the assailant got little or no punishment should i post? cyntoia brown just got released from prison after 15 years after she was an underage victim of sex trafficking (because she killed her assailant), is that relevant?

you're not paying attention if you think our culture has cared about young women's bodies (or women of any age) for the entirety of your life.
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Re: Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

Post by mikefrench »

WiseMarsellus wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 5:40 pm
perhaps we were just looking at this in separate ways and i think there's still room for us all to be on the same page here. if you're talking about the crimes epstein was charged with, sure, he's not super atypical. however, i think that is not what most people are talking about when they refer to epstein as being extremely high profile. that would be more because of the potential information to be gleaned through epstein's cooperation. if you're looking at it primarily through that lens, would you agree with our characterization of epstein?

like i also mentioned lula as another high-profile prisoner. certainly i did not do so because i was shocked by the trumped-up charges against him. i think people can be high-profile in a variety of different ways. and the reason epstein was important is the same reason i think he should have been an extremely high protection priority: he had information that is potentially damning to many of the world's wealthy and powerful people who have the means and the motive to have him killed, or to allow him to kill himself
i think the high profile thing to the criminal justice system isn't about pop culture/fame, it's about what crimes people are charged with, their level of danger/compliance, and so on. so maybe we just don't see high profile in the criminal justice system the same way. but obv if richard nixon had been a federal prisoner he would've been high profile just by being an incarcerated former president, so i get that.

i don't see any reason epstein would've cooperated, maybe that's the difference here. he ALREADY PLED GUILTY. the "co-conspirators" getting immunity in his original deal has gotten a lot of people very hyped up but i think a lot of that was to protect the people that were both victims of epstein and co-conspirators (ie he groomed girls, violated them, and then got them to find him more girls). as far as other stuff, the rest of this is going to be about documents that we already have (but aren't yet public). i mean i might be wrong, maybe epstein did have a lot to say about famous people and was about to sing. either way, obviously he shouldn't have been allowed to kill himself but prisons are not built to protect prisoners, and when someone wants to kill themselves they often get very creative.
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Re: Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

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mikefrench wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 5:53 pm
how many news stories of US judges blaming young girls for their rapes should i post? how many news stories of sexual assailants of underage children where the assailant got little or no punishment should i post?
However many you want to, I guess, while you're busily forgetting to post any argument against what I said. I repeat,
Hunter wrote: Pretty sure that "in this country" the raping of the underage is steadily and consistently regarded as THE most abhorrent and detestable of all crimes. And that's not news, because it's been that way for the ENTIRETY of our lives.
And if you could've thought of any way to argue against that, then I assume you probably would have. Saying there are instances of pedophilia/child molestation where justice wasn't served isn't (by any stretch of the imagination) proof that our people or our culture or our society turn a blind eye to those crimes, and don't care about them when they happen. Not without saying that our culture and society turn a blind eye to ALL crimes, and don't care about them when they happen. Because obviously, I could cite examples where justice wasn't served in cases regarding ANY other offenses that you try to tell me are viewed as more "abhorrent" or "detestable." There are no such offenses. These are seen (rightly or wrongly) as being the worst of the worst.

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Re: Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

Post by BrenDerlin »

Hey, just remember that all of the following are true:

- Jeffrey Epstein wanted to kill himself
- Powerful people wanted Jeffrey Epstein to die
- Our Criminal Justice system systematically dehumanizes incarcerated people

I honestly think that he did kill himself, and I would buy that the brutal experience of being incarcerated had something to do with that. Plus the inevitability of a lengthy trial that best case scenario lands him in a slightly better cell for the rest of his life would make it feel like there's no way out.

But I also can't imagine that the powerful people who were on pins and needles because of this whole affair were just going to sit on their hands and wait for this whole thing to play out. Like I don't think that the Clintons and Tony Blair went halvsies on a hitman or anything like that, but there's a lot that powerful people can do to make it easier for something like this to happen. It doesn't take a lot to imagine how someone who's rich and well-connected could weaponize the Carceral State against Epstein (which wouldn't take much since it's pretty inhumane already).

You might be right mikefrench that he was never going to flip. But as long as he was alive, it was still a possibility. And if you're someone who's rich, powerful and implicated (which fits the bill of at least a few who've been named, and even more who have been hinted at), wouldn't you do everything in your power to eliminate that possibility?

And FWIW, I don't think it really makes sense for Barr to be directly responsible for this. He's running interference and doing damage control, but it's not like he's involved in the day to day decisions of any one federal prison. He deeply sucks (and literally lead the charge for more incarceration), so anything that damages him is fine I guess, but I seriously doubt he'd be the one to hold the smoking gun, so to speak.
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Re: Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

Post by Gergall »

mikefrench wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 6:02 pm
he groomed girls, violated them, and then got them to find him more girls
That's not what I had in mind when you said "run of the mill pedophile".

To me a run of the mill pedophile is someone viewing (and probably buying/supporting) child pornography. I would guess there are 100 people like that for every 1 Epstein.
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Re: Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

Post by mikefrench »

Gergall wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 9:49 pm
mikefrench wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 6:02 pm
he groomed girls, violated them, and then got them to find him more girls
That's not what I had in mind when you said "run of the mill pedophile".

To me a run of the mill pedophile is someone viewing (and probably buying/supporting) child pornography. I would guess there are 100 people like that for every 1 Epstein.
that's a fair point - i wasn't thinking of pedophile in that way but i forget that there is a spectrum of acts/violations for pedophilia (non-acting, buying child porn, actively assaulting children, producing child porn, etc)
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Re: Cooleo questions The "Official Story"

Post by Gergall »

Jeffrey Epstein Death: 2 Guards Slept Through Checks and Falsified Records
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/13/nyre ... icers.html

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I also get sleepy sometimes when I'm guarding the most important prisoner in the United States
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