President Trump

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Re: President Trump

Post by fungineer »

Aglets wrote:Still predicting no collusion. Not saying I want that...........just saying that's how i read all the tea leaves. Nothing conclusive anyway.
And...winner!

Still interested by the line in the letter stating:
“The Special Counsel states that ‘while the report does not conclude that the President has committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”

It does appear the AJ may have already made his decision on that point, but I expect this will still continue for some time. And even when "closed" it will continue to be a referenced point for the next 2-6 years, however, from the start we all expected each "side" would likely not want to accept the results.


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Re: President Trump

Post by Gergall »

Gergall wrote:-House Democrats fight to eventually get to see the report. They have to do jump through some hoops like subpoena it or something
It's looking like I'm also going to be a winner.
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Re: President Trump

Post by Darth_Link »

So basically nothing conclusive so far and everyone makes their assumptions on what that means. The Trump-appointed AG making his own summary should definitely not be taken for fact until more stuff is revealed.

My guess is the report will say something like "Some of Trump's officials have strong connections to Russia, but no direct evidence of Trump himself directly working with the Russian government". Pretty much what has happened so far with all indictments.


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Shouts the party keeping Benghazi and email discussions alive since 2012. What this does is reduce the investigatable offenses by one. Thera are a) a bunch of other open investigations at the time and b) there have already been 7 (I think?) prison sentences in relation to Trump's close allies. Just cause there is no collusion with Trump himself, doesn't mean there isn't still a lot of fire to come from both the report and all other investigations. We'll just have to wait and see.




But what's been clear from the beginning is that the Democratic party needs to themselves in the mirror and present a better candidate, and a better campaign now, regardless of what Trump has or has not done.
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Re: President Trump

Post by Aglets »

I mean to be clear, I think he is still guilty of plenty of things....including election finance fraud. But idk that any of that other stuff will be big enough to get him impeached.

Its not as sexy as collusion with evil Putin.

He is probably safe from being charged as long as he is President.......my dream of a good primary challenger for him probably just took a big hit.

I am pretty afraid of the Dems blowing it again now. Still time left tho.
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Rian Johnson wrote: I would be worried if everybody across the board was like "Yea, that was a good movie." It's much more exciting to me when you get a group of people who are coming up to you.....really really excited about it. And then there are other people who walk out literally saying that was the worst movie I've ever seen. Having those two extremes to me is the mark of the type of movie that I want to make.

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Re: President Trump

Post by Gergall »

https://oversight.house.gov/news/press- ... schiff-and
Nadler, Schiff, Cummings wrote: "After reading the Attorney General’s four-page summary of the Special Counsel’s findings, we reiterate our call for the release of the Special Counsel’s full and complete report and all underlying documents. We also call for Attorney General Barr to come forward to testify before the House Judiciary Committee without delay. Far from the ‘total exoneration’ claimed by the President, the Mueller report expressly does not exonerate the President. Instead, it ‘sets out evidence on both sides of the question’ of obstruction—including the evidence that President Trump attempted to obstruct justice.

"It is unacceptable that, after Special Counsel Mueller spent 22 months meticulously uncovering this evidence, Attorney General Barr made a decision not to charge the President in under 48 hours. The Attorney General did so without even interviewing the President. His unsolicited, open memorandum to the Department of Justice, suggesting that the obstruction investigation was ‘fatally misconceived,’ calls into question his objectivity on this point in particular.

"Attorney General Barr states that the Special Counsel did not find evidence sufficient to establish beyond a reasonable doubt, for purposes of prosecution, that the Trump campaign conspired to join Russia’s election-related online disinformation and hacking and dissemination efforts, notwithstanding multiple offers from Russian-affiliated parties to assist the Trump campaign.

"Although we have confidence that Special Counsel Mueller made the right prosecutorial judgement in these two specific areas—notwithstanding the very public evidence of Trump campaign contact with and willingness to receive support from Russian agents—it will be vital for the country and the Congress to evaluate the full body of evidence collected by the Special Counsel, including all information gathered of a counterintelligence nature.

"The only information the Congress and the American people have received regarding this investigation is the Attorney General’s own work product. The Special Counsel’s Report should be allowed to speak for itself, and Congress must have the opportunity to evaluate the underlying evidence.

"These shortcomings in today’s letter are the very reason our nation has a system of separation of powers. We cannot simply rely on what may be a partisan interpretation of facts uncovered during the course of a 22-month review of possible wrongdoing by the President.

"The American people deserve to see the facts and judge the President’s actions for themselves.

"Earlier this month, the House passed a resolution calling for the release of the Special Counsel’s report by a vote of 420-0. The Attorney General must release the report and the underlying evidence in full, and appear before the House Judiciary Committee to answer our questions without delay."
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Re: President Trump

Post by TB »

Try ti read this analysis: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... SApp_Other

I really feel the guy is just brutalizing the presidency.
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Re: President Trump

Post by Gergall »

On Wednesday, House committee will vote on whether to hold Attorney General Barr in contempt of Congress (for failure to produce the unredacted report).

If that passes, the entire House will then vote on the same.

And if that passes, Barr is in contempt and at Pelosi's discretion could be jailed until he produces the report.

Please place your bets on what is going to happen.

A) Barr produces report before being found in contempt.
B) Barr produces report after being found in contempt.
C) Barr produces report after going to jail.
D) Trump issues a pardon and there is a big argument about whether the prez can pardon contempt of Congress.
GERGALL RECOMMENDS: E) Barr is found in contempt but Pelosi doesn't enforce.
F) Other

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1SC08X
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Re: President Trump

Post by JarJarDrinks »

Gergall wrote:GERGALL RECOMMENDS: E) Barr is found in contempt but Pelosi doesn't enforce.
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Re: President Trump

Post by Aglets »

Whatever happened to Eric Holder under Obama is what I predict to be the most likely outcome here.

Looks like Holder was found in contempt along mostly partisan lines and then:

"President Obama and the Justice Department declined to prosecute the attorney general on the contempt charge citing executive privilege."

Yeah all that sounds about right.

(Then there was a 19 month long investigation that cleared Holder of wrong doing..........which also seems to fit the current situation.........and then he resigned 2 years later).

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Rian Johnson wrote: I would be worried if everybody across the board was like "Yea, that was a good movie." It's much more exciting to me when you get a group of people who are coming up to you.....really really excited about it. And then there are other people who walk out literally saying that was the worst movie I've ever seen. Having those two extremes to me is the mark of the type of movie that I want to make.

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Re: President Trump

Post by Gergall »

@Aglets Trump is going to invoke executive privilege on the Mueller report?

I mean it wouldn't surprise me but it boggles the mind.
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Re: President Trump

Post by Aglets »

What do you mean?

I absolutely don't see the president/justice dept prosecuting Barr.

Mueller is testifying soon right? Pretty easy to ask him if Barr lied about things or covered anything up inappropriately.
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Rian Johnson wrote: I would be worried if everybody across the board was like "Yea, that was a good movie." It's much more exciting to me when you get a group of people who are coming up to you.....really really excited about it. And then there are other people who walk out literally saying that was the worst movie I've ever seen. Having those two extremes to me is the mark of the type of movie that I want to make.

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Re: President Trump

Post by Gergall »

Aglets wrote:I absolutely don't see the president/justice dept prosecuting Barr.
As I stated, if the House Committee and the House both vote for contempt then Pelosi can enforce at her own discretion.

At Pelosi's command, this guy would actually be able to go to Barr and arrest him:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_ ... sentatives
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Re: President Trump

Post by WiseMarsellus »

the failure to produce an unredacted copy of the memo is a terrible reason to find contempt. it's totally justifiable for them to redact the memo, even from congress. given that mueller drafted the memo, it seems reasonable to first ask him if there were sections of the memo redacted by barr that he did not feel it was appropriate to redact. and if so, have him produce the memo. that should be a much more logical approach to compelling production of the evidence congress seeks.

if they want to bring him up on contempt, why not try to establish that he lied to congress and go after him for that?
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Re: President Trump

Post by rsersen »

A) Barr produces report before being found in contempt.
B) Barr produces report after being found in contempt.
C) Barr produces report after going to jail.
D) Trump issues a pardon and there is a big argument about whether the prez can pardon contempt of Congress.
GERGALL RECOMMENDS: E) Barr is found in contempt but Pelosi doesn't enforce.
F) Other
Almost certainly going to be E.

As for D, we already have precedence; Trump pardoned Arpaio for criminal contempt in 2017. Seems like he could do the same for Barr, but I doubt he'll need to.
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Re: President Trump

Post by Gergall »

WiseMarsellus wrote:if they want to bring him up on contempt, why not try to establish that he lied to congress and go after him for that?
They don't want to "go after him". They want the report. You get the report by demanding it and then holding him in contempt when he does not comply.
it's totally justifiable for them to redact the memo, even from congress.
Do you mean that its legally sound for Barr to redact from House Intelligence Committee? Or are you just saying justifiable in terms of common sense?
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Re: President Trump

Post by WiseMarsellus »

i get that they want the report. i'm just saying, they shouldn't feel entitled to an entirely unredacted version of the report, and i think they know this and are engaging in some political posturing. and contempt proceedings against the ag are an ineffective way to go about getting it when mueller is a better source anyway if that's what they're after.

we could imagine the redacted material might be something like: btw we got this info from dmitry whoever, a secret informer inside the russian government. that might be information relevant to the attorney general but not fit for disclosure to congress.

and when they talk to mueller, if it turns out that mueller says yeah there's no reason to have redacted that section: that section is super damning to trump. then i think you ask mueller to produce a version of the report unredacted to the extent he sees fit
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Re: President Trump

Post by Gergall »

WiseMarsellus wrote:then i think you ask mueller to produce a version of the report unredacted to the extent he sees fit
I'm like 85% sure that Mueller no longer has the report. He doesn't get to bring a copy back with him to his house or anything.
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Re: RE: Re: President Trump

Post by Hari Seldon »

Gergall wrote:On Wednesday, House committee will vote on whether to hold Attorney General Barr in contempt of Congress (for failure to produce the unredacted report).

If that passes, the entire House will then vote on the same.

And if that passes, Barr is in contempt and at Pelosi's discretion could be jailed until he produces the report.

Please place your bets on what is going to happen.

A) Barr produces report before being found in contempt.
B) Barr produces report after being found in contempt.
C) Barr produces report after going to jail.
D) Trump issues a pardon and there is a big argument about whether the prez can pardon contempt of Congress.
GERGALL RECOMMENDS: E) Barr is found in contempt but Pelosi doesn't enforce.
F) Other

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1SC08X
He can't be jailed by the Congress, this is the same thing that happened with Eric Holder. The exec branch has to enforce the law and I presume they will just say "nah" like they did with Holder.

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allstarz97 wrote:...and thematically, as everyone is referencing on this thread, why are people not mentioning the part where mace windu is crying like a little *, gets his hand cut off and then gets thrown out a window?

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Re: RE: Re: President Trump

Post by Aglets »

Hari Seldon wrote:
Gergall wrote:On Wednesday, House committee will vote on whether to hold Attorney General Barr in contempt of Congress (for failure to produce the unredacted report).

If that passes, the entire House will then vote on the same.

And if that passes, Barr is in contempt and at Pelosi's discretion could be jailed until he produces the report.

Please place your bets on what is going to happen.

A) Barr produces report before being found in contempt.
B) Barr produces report after being found in contempt.
C) Barr produces report after going to jail.
D) Trump issues a pardon and there is a big argument about whether the prez can pardon contempt of Congress.
GERGALL RECOMMENDS: E) Barr is found in contempt but Pelosi doesn't enforce.
F) Other

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1SC08X
He can't be jailed by the Congress, this is the same thing that happened with Eric Holder. The exec branch has to enforce the law and I presume they will just say "nah" like they did with Holder.

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Rian Johnson wrote: I would be worried if everybody across the board was like "Yea, that was a good movie." It's much more exciting to me when you get a group of people who are coming up to you.....really really excited about it. And then there are other people who walk out literally saying that was the worst movie I've ever seen. Having those two extremes to me is the mark of the type of movie that I want to make.

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: President Trump

Post by Hari Seldon »

Aglets wrote:
Hari Seldon wrote:
Gergall wrote:On Wednesday, House committee will vote on whether to hold Attorney General Barr in contempt of Congress (for failure to produce the unredacted report).

If that passes, the entire House will then vote on the same.

And if that passes, Barr is in contempt and at Pelosi's discretion could be jailed until he produces the report.

Please place your bets on what is going to happen.

A) Barr produces report before being found in contempt.
B) Barr produces report after being found in contempt.
C) Barr produces report after going to jail.
D) Trump issues a pardon and there is a big argument about whether the prez can pardon contempt of Congress.
GERGALL RECOMMENDS: E) Barr is found in contempt but Pelosi doesn't enforce.
F) Other

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1SC08X
He can't be jailed by the Congress, this is the same thing that happened with Eric Holder. The exec branch has to enforce the law and I presume they will just say "nah" like they did with Holder.

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I don't get the reference, but to me it's wild how this document fight is proceeding in a nearly identical manner to the Fast and Furious oversight in 2012 and since the media didn't have any interest in covering Obama's scandals many people believe this is uncharted territory. If it follows the same route to conclusion we know how it's going to end, a Dem president will have the option to release more/all of the report in 2021 or if Trump wins he could lose in court like Obama did. That took four years to resolve though.

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allstarz97 wrote:...and thematically, as everyone is referencing on this thread, why are people not mentioning the part where mace windu is crying like a little *, gets his hand cut off and then gets thrown out a window?

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