President Trump

mikefrench
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Re: President Trump

Post by mikefrench »

i think the devil's advocate answer from the right is

isn't the cost of fostering innovation worth it? if we give up the one thing we're legitimately better at than those other countries, who's to say that we'd be better off? those other countries are likely just free riders off of the value of american innovation that's been spread globally.


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Re: President Trump

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Gergall wrote:
Hobbie wrote:Ya. I work in a warehouse that starts at $20/hr. No experience required. Ramps to $28/hr pretty quickly too... so, if an associate is willing to work an extra day and put in 50 hrs a week, they can make $80k a year.
Again. Anyone can do it. Not everyone can do it. There aren't nearly enough jobs like the one you are describing, or we'd be in terrific shape. Kudos to your warehouse for offering excellent pay and making extra hours available.
Appreciate your post earlier. Thank you.

I think we are actually both correct, we just have a different perspective.

Where you seem to look at whether "everyone" has an automatic and entitled path to the middle class, I look at whether in fact it is possible for anyone, not whether everyone will get there.

I understand economics very well. Hobbie's example is also a good one, and way more common than is typically touted in left circles, where its more popular these days to only discuss the gaps, and not the opportunities. Our current unemployment is lower than its been in 50 years, and companies are seeking workers.

As far as Europe, I also understand well, having lived there, and managing companies and employees across Europe for the last 20 years.. which means I get up close and personal in wage and employment issues and health care and making decisions on where to invest in terms of economics and available talent. I know that I am very reluctant to put business in France, Germany and Italy given the very restrictive flexibility to change the company and the very protective employment laws that favor the employee in every case.

I see Europe as simply the 20% - 60% approach.. few are below 20% and few above 60%, whereas the US is more like a 5% - 95% approach. In neither case is the upper 1% very open, but definitely there is more of a focus in some western European countries to ensure that the people at the bottom have a lower bottom, while the upper end is really not there. Is that better or worse? That's really subjective. The 75th percentile and above tend to do well in either case, and the lower 10% less well.

But, there is zero denying that the USA is a very desirable place to live on a global scale. Whether you successfully argue that some countries with GDP's less than say Michigan (which by itself is about the GDP of Sweden) are better places to live than the USA in total... I'm not going to argue that (although having been there would never choose to live there). But if you compare the USA to the other 95% of people on the planet and consider that $34,000 a year is in the global 1%, that alone should make us all grateful,
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Re: President Trump

Post by mserisman »

arebelspy wrote: Gergall's point, I think, is that yes, anyone can succeed here. But it's rarer for it to happen than it should be, and that it is elsewhere. We should make it possible for more people to succeed, simultaneously (queue the hooky here asking what simultaneously means). Not make it more possible for one person to become mega-rich at the expense of everyone else (or, more realistically, for the rich to get richer), which is what we focus on, but make it more possible for lots of people to hit that 75% mark (quoted above as 68k) at the same time. That would require, however reducing that income disparity. Less corporate greed and profits, and higher wages, benefits, and a better social safety net.
I am in total agreement with this and have spent my career literally making it happen. I often get to decide for the companies I work for, how we will spend our resources.

For example, at my current company I put in a global fully paid six month parental leave plan. This is among the top in our country, and is a place where we fall absurdly behind other nations. I just put in $5,000 a year in educational benefits, to all employees everywhere in the world. For the last 20+ years I have built opportunity and fought for higher wages, benefits, working conditions etc.

But, we have another problem in that "we" are usually a contributing factor in our own limitations. People for years have derided places like Wal-Mart for going into small towns and ruining the local small business markets.. yet ask any of those people impacted whether they will pay more for the same products and you will find them all shopping at Wal-Mart....

Ask anyone who wants put some money away for retirement, and ask whether they expect their money to grow? Well how does it grow? yeah...

So, one of the major problems I have with the Democrat Party is that they abandoned the working class, and now only care about liberals on the coasts.. that means essentially no one cares about these people anymore because the GOP never really has either. Yet that is the population we most need to provide education, training and opportunities for.

We can for sure get better, and right now it seems we are getting better.. so let's hope it continues.
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Re: President Trump

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arebelspy wrote: And don't say "move somewhere else." There's often a variety of factors why they can't, or won't, but the arguments of "someone can make $X in Seattle, and imagine what that'd be like in a cheap place like Kansas City!" is ridiculous, cause they couldn't make that money in KC! They're only making it because they live in that high COL area, which is where they have to spend it, too.
Actually the COLA's never tell the story. The issue is housing costs, taxes and commutes. Are you better off in middle America at a lower salary than you get in SF or Seattle? A resounding yes.

Even between cities its absurd the deltas. Seattle is a very expensive place to live, yet compared to the Bay area its downright affordable. Yet why does everyone want to flock to silicon valley, despite the prices putting even basic home ownership out of the reach of anyone who didn't cash out in some start up gone IPO?

The same job in Austin, Texas might pay $30,000 less, but your average house costs a million less... your income taxes in Texas are 0% and 16.5% in the Bay Area. Sure, a carton of milk might be $3 in both places, but when your rent is either $1000 a month or $3500 a month, that's where the real impact is.

We had people at GE/Pepsi/Qwest when I was there use the system on purpose. They would get transferred and take a job in Stanford Ct., where they would get paid $100k, and then after living in poverty for 3 years, transfer to Kansas City and live like a king on that salary. When I moved from KC to Seattle area, I made the same salary and paid 2x for .5 the house.

If I was starting out, I would find a job outside one of the big coast cities... sure you might make less but your opportunities are 10x in terms of saving money and living costs and lifestyle.
"Never content to just rest on your laurels, you are always still reaching skyward, looking to achieve staggering new heights in douchebaggery." - Hunter towards someone who will not be named

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Re: President Trump

Post by Gergall »

mserisman wrote:Our current unemployment is lower than its been in 50 years, and companies are seeking workers.
But unfortunately, whereas low unemployment ought to drive wages up, it's just not happening. Wages are stagnant and minimum wage is awful.

I just listened to an interview with the Fed chair last week where they asked him why this is happening. All he could say is that it's very unusual, and that they hope that if unemployment stays low the wages will eventually have to go up.

(Side note I am 95% sure I can find the interview, if anyone wants to listen to it. It's pretty uncommon for any fed chair to give many interviews AFAIK so I think it'd be easy to find)
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Re: President Trump

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July 16 - I don't see any reason why it would have been Russia.

July 17 - Sorry for misspeaking. I believe my intelligence agencies. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't have been Russia.

July 22 - Russia is a big hoax.

On a side note, Trump's campaign was indeed informed about Russia.
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Re: President Trump

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I guess it was time for a distraction. I'll hand it to him, he's good at distractions.
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Re: President Trump

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Gergall wrote:Image

I guess it was time for a distraction. I'll hand it to him, he's good at distractions.
but at least he didn't draw a red line! amirite
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Re: President Trump

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Not to be pedantic but I’d say that’s exactly what he did. (Draw a red line)

If the Iranians cross it I expect Trump will deflect, dodge, change what he said.....talk about his crowd size.....etc.
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Re: President Trump

Post by Gergall »

We already did this with North Korea. Trump said one more word outta you and it's gonna be fire and fury etc. NK tweeted back more threats within 24 hours.
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Re: President Trump

Post by rsersen »

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/26/opin ... -2020.html

Good (fictional) article from NYT today, looking forward to 2020 and the reasons why Trump would win re-election. Unfortunately I’m not sure what will change between now and 2020 to prevent this from coming to fruition.
Nov. 4, 2020

In the end, a bitterly fought election came down to the old political aphorism, popularized during Bill Clinton’s successful 1992 run against George H.W. Bush: “It’s the economy, stupid.” This time, however, it was the Republican incumbent, not his Democratic challenger, who benefited from that truism.

Donald J. Trump has been decisively re-elected as president of the United States, winning every state he carried in 2016 and adding Nevada, even as he once again failed, albeit narrowly, to gain a majority of the popular vote. Extraordinary turnout in California, New York, Illinois and other Democratic bastions could not compensate for the president’s abiding popularity in the states that still decide who gets to live in the White House: Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida.

Yet, unlike 2016, last night’s outcome came neither as a political upset nor as a global shock. Mr. Trump and Vice President Mike Pence have consistently polled ahead of Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts and her running mate, Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio, since July.
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May 13th, 2020, 10:16 pm
Agree with Ryan.
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Re: President Trump

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How about his personal lawyer agreeing to testify that Trump knew about and approved of the infamous meeting in his tower?
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Re: President Trump

Post by TB »

Meto wrote:How about his personal lawyer agreeing to testify that Trump knew about and approved of the infamous meeting in his tower?
no-one seems to have that cohen story over here? I saw a brief version earlier but its gone now. was it just hearsay or is he really testifying? I was 100percent sure mueller was running his head into walls and had nothing. this could be huge.

Its not like I wish for the states to go trough an impeachment but if he KNEW about and APPROVED a meeting with a foreign power in order to gain an advantage in a run for president of the US then that is collusion, right? and that must be illegal. or is it not that big a deal at all?

it sounds serious to me. lets say he won on their material just for arguments sake, then he would have put himself in a very serious position of debt that the leader of the free world should not be in. that must be why you have laws against that sort of thing, no?
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Re: President Trump

Post by WiseMarsellus »

trump knowing about the meeting isn't enough. there needs to be pretty incontrovertible proof that he colluded in order for him to be removed from office. if there could be a blind vote on this in congress he'd be out yesterday. the republicans don't actually want him there. but if they vote him out publicly they're going to lose a primary because of the angry trump supporters. they need to be able to say look my hands were tied the evidence was overwhelming
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Re: President Trump

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TB wrote:no-one seems to have that cohen story over here? I saw a brief version earlier but its gone now. was it just hearsay or is he really testifying?
Sources went to CNN so that's where you would find the actual story. Most other sites have headlines that say "CNN is reporting XYZ" and those articles are just people reading CNN and giving you their take on it.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/26/politics ... index.html

Wise wrote:trump knowing about the meeting isn't enough. there needs to be pretty incontrovertible proof that he colluded in order for him to be removed from office.
This. The bar for removal (or even impeachment with no removal) is really high. The fact that Trump would be exposed as lying about not knowing about the meeting would just be the new temporary scandal-of-the-week. Or of-the-day. Then it would be forgotten like everything else.
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mikefrench
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Re: President Trump

Post by mikefrench »

The bar for impeachment has already been set imo - trump has to murder someone (and there has to be video of it).

That is, unless Democrats gain control of Congress.
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Re: President Trump

Post by arebelspy »

This article reminded me of the Europe and US comparisons in this thread.

Specifically the charts in the tweet are pretty amazing.

https://splinternews.com/why-income-ine ... 1827959329

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Re: President Trump

Post by rhendon »

Wasn't the 80's the start of the trickle down economics that Republicans love so much?

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Re: President Trump

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rhendon wrote:Wasn't the 80's the start of the trickle down economics that Republicans love so much?
Neoliberalism has been the ruling economic ideology since the 80s (and arguably earlier):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

Trickle-down is another term for supply-side economics, which operates with the belief that reducing production costs makes goods affordable to more people.

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Re: President Trump

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Apollyon wrote:
rhendon wrote:Wasn't the 80's the start of the trickle down economics that Republicans love so much?
Neoliberalism has been the ruling economic ideology since the 80s (and arguably earlier):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

Trickle-down is another term for supply-side economics, which operates with the belief that reducing production costs makes goods affordable to more people.
Yea I was just thinking more about Regan and his policy. I thought he had coined the term but reading what you wrote he apparently changed what neoliberalism means.

So the graphs show what happens when we follow an actor, not a politician or economics person's policies. Sort of like the country following Trump's policies. Hooray. We're doomed.

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