SPOILERS: STAR WARS: EPISODE 9: THE RISE OF SKYWALKERS [SPOILERS]

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Re: SPOILERS: STAR WARS: EPISODE 9: THE RISE OF SKYWALKERS [SPOILERS]

Post by arebelspy »

I liked it.
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Things I didn't like:

Felt too long.

Also didn't like she identified as Rey Skywalker not Ray Palpatine at the end when the message was "don't be afraid of who you are". Instead they should have Leia tell her "you can choose who you want to be"--THEN her IDing as Skywalker works. Instead it makes it seem like she's still afraid to be who she is. Also before she says that, it showed Luke/leia. It should have shown Ben/Leia, then she says Skywalker, like he's now inside her cause he gave his life for hers. Those two tweaks and I'd have liked her line.

Biggest pet peeve: the total POINTLESSNESS of the middle 45m, as she goes for the sith tracker, after she finds out about her parents. Kylo is like "let's go to the sith planet and kill palpatine! And she's like NO! I have to go find this mcguffin so I can go to the sith planet and kill palpatine. And she goes and finds it and then kylo comes and crushes it and is like "let's go to the sith planet and kill palpatine! And she's like NO! I have to go to the sith planet and kill palpatine!" and they have a whole pointless battle among the waves. And sure, it set up them caring about each other (she heals him), but the whole part of that plot was dumb. If you want to go kill palpatine for what happened to your parents, go with the dude who knows where it is and is offering to take you, for that exact purpose . People complained about the casino subplot in 8 being pointless, but that at least had a reason, even if weak. There was no reason for her to chase finding a way to go kill palp as kylo continually asks her to go do that exact thing. Dumb.

But overall I liked it. Humor fell flat mostly, but it answered some things, re: Holdo maneuver, chewie getting a metal, etc.

The length was the main downer. Could have definitely trimmed. But it was fun, and star warsy, and did a good job completing the arc.

For reference, I liked 8 a lot, really did not like how 7 carbon copied ANH, not a fan of 7.

I was worried then, cause JJ did 7, and was talking about retconning 8, but it wasn't too bad there.

9 mirrored Rotj, but it was different enough it didn't annoy me in the same way. More of a echo of 6 than repeat.

I'd rank, roughly:
5, Rogue 1, 4, 9/8, 6, 1, 7/Solo, 2/3



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Re: SPOILERS: STAR WARS: EPISODE 9: THE RISE OF SKYWALKERS [SPOILERS]

Post by Apollyon »

I'm in the "confused mess" category. Daisy and Adam both had really good performances.

A lot of stuff is happening, and I had no idea why. It also doesn't help that the ending is pretty much pure comic book movie - style over plot payoff.
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-Why is Palpatine alive? We saw him get thrown down a shaft, explode, then have the space station he exploded in explode again. (Note: I don't really like the "dies and comes back" trope)
-Where does 16 hours come from? Why do we not see it pay off?
-Why does Palpatine have a giant fleet of Star Destroyers and a crew?
-Why do all of the Star Destroyers have superlasers?
-Why are we doing weird hyperspace skipping stuff?
-Why does Rose get more or less put on a bus and shut out of the movie entirely? She wasn't great in TLJ, but she deserved way better.
-What lightsabers does Rey have? (I thought she had Anakin's and Luke's, but Slack corrected me and she has Leia's)
-Why does Rey beat Kylo, then randomly heal him and run off?
-Why does Luke have Leia's LS?
-Why does Force Lightning now get to blow up ships? And like an armada of ships.
-Why do we not have an Ep7 Force Lightning v that can destroy multiple ships? (Looking at you, EBO)
-Why does a lightsaber get to block a Force Lightning that can destroy an armada?
-Why is two lightsabers good enough to melt Palpatine?
...
Rise Pitch Meeting video that pretty much nails it.

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Re: SPOILERS: STAR WARS: EPISODE 9: THE RISE OF SKYWALKERS [SPOILERS]

Post by arebelspy »

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I don't like how in general in episodes 7, 8, and 9, the force is SO MUCH more powerful than in the OT.

The above comment about the force lightning attacking ships reminded me. There was a lot in the sequels trilogy that was very OP[/quote]

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Re: SPOILERS: STAR WARS: EPISODE 9: THE RISE OF SKYWALKERS [SPOILERS]

Post by Gergall »

Gergall wrote:
December 20th, 2019, 10:26 am
I still like Ep 8 as a movie by itself. But it's really bad for the sequel trilogy.
To expand on this. Ep 9 hit some nice plot points that would have been amazing if they had been set up properly as long arcs over the trilogy.
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1. Palpatine, obviously.

2. "The People" as a sort of character. Arc would be something like Ep7 they refuse to acknowledge the First Order as a threat until it's too late, Ep8 they are too scared and defeated to fight, Ep9 something awakens their fighting spirit (preferably better than "phone call from Lando" but whatever).
It's cool that they showed up, but would've been much cooler if it was earned.

3. Kylo's story seems to zigzag a little too much, due to the cooperative battle alongside Rey in Ep8. But that's nothing compared to...

4. "Hux" is basically one actor playing a different character in each of the 3 movies. The "spy" thing was not built up to, seeds could have been planted in Ep 8 if the trilogy were planned in advance.
@rebelspy "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force." and "Size matters not." Also...
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Palpy is in an area incredibly strong in the dark side. It's clearly a 3/0 in SWCCG terms but if the game allowed for it, I think it would be more like a 9/0

Hmm. "If this is your starting location, opponent takes the first 2 turns of the game." :lol:
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Re: SPOILERS: STAR WARS: EPISODE 9: THE RISE OF SKYWALKERS [SPOILERS]

Post by Gergall »

arebelspy" wrote:
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Also didn't like she identified as Rey Skywalker not Ray Palpatine at the end when the message was "don't be afraid of who you are". Instead they should have Leia tell her "you can choose who you want to be"--THEN her IDing as Skywalker works. Instead it makes it seem like she's still afraid to be who she is.
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Yeah they botched it a little bit. For the most part, her story over the entire trilogy is that she thinks her ancestry defines her:
-Her long-term backstory is that she's been waiting for her parents to return before she does anything with her life.
-Her Ep7 story is that she still wants to keep waiting but finally accepts that they're not coming
-Her Ep8 story is to keep searching for info on her parents - first on Ahch-To and then from Kylo. And what she learns crushes her. She defines herself by it.
-Her Ep9 story is learning her true ancestry and then THAT devastates her as well. Finally by the end she understands that she is in charge of her own life.

So with all that in mind, Leia's quote is kinda bad. The one you suggested would be better. They can't change Leia's dialogue because it's just re-purposed old footage. But they could have had someone else say it.
arebelspy wrote:
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Also before she says that, it showed Luke/leia. It should have shown Ben/Leia, then she says Skywalker, like he's now inside her cause he gave his life for hers.
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Re: SPOILERS: STAR WARS: EPISODE 9: THE RISE OF SKYWALKERS [SPOILERS]

Post by Spoiler Man »

Cam Solusar wrote:
December 22nd, 2019, 2:02 pm
MrPurple wrote:
shawnd1984 wrote:
December 22nd, 2019, 12:00 pm
Absolute garbage.
That's a bummer :(

I am really curious, is Episode 8 one your favorites?

I am curious if those that liked/loved Episode 8 hated this movie and those that disliked/hated Episode 8 enjoyed this movie.
I loved TLJ. It's still my favorite SW movie. I left this movie just feeling nothing. I don't really care to see it again. I don't know if I actively hate this movie, it had some fine moments, but it most certainly did not feel like a star wars movie. JJ Abrams has taken another beloved IP off the rails. RIP

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Curious about what made TLJ so great, and why you would even rank it higher than say 5 or 4?

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Re: SPOILERS: STAR WARS: EPISODE 9: THE RISE OF SKYWALKERS [SPOILERS]

Post by Cam Solusar »

Spoiler Man wrote:
Cam Solusar wrote:
December 22nd, 2019, 2:02 pm
MrPurple wrote:
shawnd1984 wrote:
December 22nd, 2019, 12:00 pm
Absolute garbage.
That's a bummer :(

I am really curious, is Episode 8 one your favorites?

I am curious if those that liked/loved Episode 8 hated this movie and those that disliked/hated Episode 8 enjoyed this movie.
I loved TLJ. It's still my favorite SW movie. I left this movie just feeling nothing. I don't really care to see it again. I don't know if I actively hate this movie, it had some fine moments, but it most certainly did not feel like a star wars movie. JJ Abrams has taken another beloved IP off the rails. RIP

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Curious about what made TLJ so great, and why you would even rank it higher than say 5 or 4?
It had commentary on failure that resonated on a personal level for me, and the idea of parentage not mattering is huge for me and how I plan on raising the kids I adopted. Luke's arc from abject failure to transcendent success moved me deeply. And Rose's persevering after her sister's death was one of the greatest minor character arcs in star wars.

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Re: SPOILERS: STAR WARS: EPISODE 9: THE RISE OF SKYWALKERS [SPOILERS]

Post by hanotsri »

Cam Solusar wrote:
December 22nd, 2019, 8:57 pm
Spoiler Man wrote:
Cam Solusar wrote:
December 22nd, 2019, 2:02 pm
MrPurple wrote:
shawnd1984 wrote:
December 22nd, 2019, 12:00 pm
Absolute garbage.
That's a bummer :(

I am really curious, is Episode 8 one your favorites?

I am curious if those that liked/loved Episode 8 hated this movie and those that disliked/hated Episode 8 enjoyed this movie.
I loved TLJ. It's still my favorite SW movie. I left this movie just feeling nothing. I don't really care to see it again. I don't know if I actively hate this movie, it had some fine moments, but it most certainly did not feel like a star wars movie. JJ Abrams has taken another beloved IP off the rails. RIP

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Curious about what made TLJ so great, and why you would even rank it higher than say 5 or 4?
It had commentary on failure that resonated on a personal level for me, and the idea of parentage not mattering is huge for me and how I plan on raising the kids I adopted. Luke's arc from abject failure to transcendent success moved me deeply. And Rose's persevering after her sister's death was one of the greatest minor character arcs in star wars.

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Bravo! Great response

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Re: SPOILERS: STAR WARS: EPISODE 9: THE RISE OF SKYWALKERS [SPOILERS]

Post by marines28 »

Shadow 14 wrote:
December 20th, 2019, 11:24 am
marines28,
I spoilered your text, so that it is not revealed for any-one who hasn't seen the movie yet.

Although, I have no idea why they would lurk around here. ;)
Ah, thank you! I have not used tags like that. I figured MOST die-hard SW people would have watched it by now....but I know we all have personal lives, too, and watching a fantasy movie may not be the most paramount thing currently.
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Re: SPOILERS: STAR WARS: EPISODE 9: THE RISE OF SKYWALKERS [SPOILERS]

Post by Saladas »

Xanth wrote:
December 21st, 2019, 10:36 pm
It had some goofy parts, and it had some rushed script work, but the good parts were so incredibly good that I literally couldn't stop tears from flowing as the credits rolled.
dont u feel wedge deserved at least 2 seconds of screen time instead of just 1?

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Re: SPOILERS: STAR WARS: EPISODE 9: THE RISE OF SKYWALKERS [SPOILERS]

Post by Cam Solusar »

Wedge should have taken the place of Dominic Monaghan's pointless character.

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Re: SPOILERS: STAR WARS: EPISODE 9: THE RISE OF SKYWALKERS [SPOILERS]

Post by Platypus »

Cam Solusar wrote:
December 22nd, 2019, 8:57 pm
Spoiler Man wrote:
Cam Solusar wrote:
December 22nd, 2019, 2:02 pm
MrPurple wrote:
shawnd1984 wrote:
December 22nd, 2019, 12:00 pm
Absolute garbage.
That's a bummer :(

I am really curious, is Episode 8 one your favorites?

I am curious if those that liked/loved Episode 8 hated this movie and those that disliked/hated Episode 8 enjoyed this movie.
I loved TLJ. It's still my favorite SW movie. I left this movie just feeling nothing. I don't really care to see it again. I don't know if I actively hate this movie, it had some fine moments, but it most certainly did not feel like a star wars movie. JJ Abrams has taken another beloved IP off the rails. RIP

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Curious about what made TLJ so great, and why you would even rank it higher than say 5 or 4?
It had commentary on failure that resonated on a personal level for me, and the idea of parentage not mattering is huge for me and how I plan on raising the kids I adopted. Luke's arc from abject failure to transcendent success moved me deeply. And Rose's persevering after her sister's death was one of the greatest minor character arcs in star wars.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
That’s about the best spin on it I’ve heard. Well said.
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Re: SPOILERS: STAR WARS: EPISODE 9: THE RISE OF SKYWALKERS [SPOILERS]

Post by Spoiler Man »

Depressing thought:

In a trilogy with a run-time north of 6 hours, and included all four of our favorite main characters (+Lando) all we got of them together is:

1) Luke/Leia astral projection scene
1) Luke/Leia flashback scene
No Luke/Leia physical scenes together otherwise.

No Han/Lando scenes together
No Han/Luke scenes together

1-3) Luke/Chewie scenes together
1-3) Luke/R2D2 scenes together

No Luke/Lando scenes together (not a real big deal)

Only a mid-act and part of a third-act (before Han dies) of Han/Chewie together

Very rare/few scenes of 3PO/R2 together

No Lando/Leia scenes together
Just two scenes of Lando/Chewie together (meeting on the desert planet in EP9 and the celebration at the end of EP9)


What a wasted opportunity as a whole with these characters. Hell, out of a deleted scene from TLJ, we don't get Luke even really reacting to Han's death. We don't get Lando reacting to Han's death. We get barely a reaction out of Leia to Han's death. The biggest reaction we get is Chewie to Leia's death.

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Re: SPOILERS: STAR WARS: EPISODE 9: THE RISE OF SKYWALKERS [SPOILERS]

Post by Gergall »

Cam Solusar wrote:
December 22nd, 2019, 8:57 pm
Curious about what made TLJ so great, and why you would even rank it higher than say 5 or 4?
... the idea of parentage not mattering is huge for me ...
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Is Ep9 not satisfactory in this regard?
1. She learns that her biological ancestry plays an important role in her natural-born abilities.
2. She decides that her biological ancestry will NOT choose her path in life. She makes her own choice.
3. In the end, she chooses who her family is. Her birth name does not matter.

I think you take issue with the first point. You liked it when Rey had force powers despite being a nobody. But look, it's a fact of life that your parents determine your starting point (and in Star Wars, that often means it determines if you have force powers). I think points 2 and 3 are a much more meaningful lesson for kids.
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Re: SPOILERS: STAR WARS: EPISODE 9: THE RISE OF SKYWALKERS [SPOILERS]

Post by arebelspy »

Spoiler Man wrote:
December 23rd, 2019, 12:01 am
Depressing thought:
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In a trilogy with a run-time north of 6 hours, and included all four of our favorite main characters (+Lando) all we got of them together is:

1) Luke/Leia astral projection scene
1) Luke/Leia flashback scene
No Luke/Leia physical scenes together otherwise.

No Han/Lando scenes together
No Han/Luke scenes together

1-3) Luke/Chewie scenes together
1-3) Luke/R2D2 scenes together

No Luke/Lando scenes together (not a real big deal)

Only a mid-act and part of a third-act (before Han dies) of Han/Chewie together

Very rare/few scenes of 3PO/R2 together

No Lando/Leia scenes together
Just two scenes of Lando/Chewie together (meeting on the desert planet in EP9 and the celebration at the end of EP9)


What a wasted opportunity as a whole with these characters. Hell, out of a deleted scene from TLJ, we don't get Luke even really reacting to Han's death. We don't get Lando reacting to Han's death. We get barely a reaction out of Leia to Han's death. The biggest reaction we get is Chewie to Leia's death.
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Eh.

You want to see those guys together? Go watch episodes 4-6.

This trilogy moved on. Finn, Rey, Poe. How many times did you see them together?

Those characters you mentioned... they were great. And we saw their story. Why do we need to see the old versions of them still chumming it together? Having their roles be reduced because it's someone else's story makes much more sense (see: countless movie series where the characters keep getting older and doing ridiculous things without passing the torch, like indiana jones or die hard or whatever). It took awhile to adjust that yes, it had moved on, but after 3 movies (eps 7-9) this seems like a weird complaint, to me. Watch ep 4-6 for those classic scenes with those guys.

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Re: SPOILERS: STAR WARS: EPISODE 9: THE RISE OF SKYWALKERS [SPOILERS]

Post by Spoiler Man »

Thats a whole lot of 'attack' in a small paragraph. No I didn't say we HAD TO HAVE this or that entire movies had to be this way. But.... did you not want to see at least a single scene of consequence with Luke and Han together one last time? Especially if one's going to die on a new Death Star and the other is going to die in seclusion on some remote planet?

Wouldn't you at least like to see one of the characters react to the death of the other? Imagine if ANH had no scenes of Luke reacting to Obi's death or Leia reacting to her planet being destroyed. Or juxtapose it with Chewie dying and there being no grief by Han.

I was asking for a buddy-cop movie of Han and Luke in their 60s, but a scene here or there, especially given their importance, and everything. You can do these things __AND__ pass the torch. You can set up *NEW* characters and keep *OLD* characters. AND, bonus points, without destroying their character or legacy (glares at Luke, or even the legacy of Anakin/Skywalker name in general).

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Re: SPOILERS: STAR WARS: EPISODE 9: THE RISE OF SKYWALKERS [SPOILERS]

Post by Spoiler Man »

Or at least give me compelling characters to replace them.

Rey? Meh, super Mary Sue of epic proportions, that only grows exponentially more powerful throughout the ST. Takes no real damage, until a fake-out death at the end. And its hand-waved away because she's a "Palpatine".

Finn? Amazing character backstory and idea. Stormtrooper turning good. So much they could do with it.... and whats he become? A talkable, human, version of Chewbacca.

Poe? A new Han? A new Wedge? A replacement for Leia in RoS due to Carrie Fisher's death? Kind of all of these things but nothing of any substantial worth as a whole. His arc in TFA and TLJ is the same. His arc in RoS.... is.... he's a leader at the start and stays a leader at the end?

How do these three characters interact in the movies? In TFA they interact pretty well. Finn cares for Rey. Finn cares for Poe. He cares for Rey because she kinda saves him. He cares for Poe because he kinda saves him. In TLJ Finn runs off to do a pointless mission and be comedic relief with a new introduced character (Rose) and his arc is stupid, and gets destroyed when Rose saves him last second. Poe does a mutiny and kinda rehashes his arc from TFA. Rey goes off to become a pseudo-Jedi and become stronger.

You get them all brought back together in RoS, but with lots and lots of bantering and bickering at each other. Poe almost seems agitated with Finn throughout the movie. Rey seems the stoic, above it all, too-good-to-be-true Mother Theresa type at times, but with moments of darkness that hints at her Palpatine origin. Finn is.... what is Finn in RoS? Just a sidekick? A guy stuck in the friend-zone with Rey? Not quite sure what the purpose of his character arc is in RoS. He tries to save Rey, gets rebuffed. Meets up with another former Stormtrooper, tries to do a suicide run (again), and is saved (again). Eh.

I dunno.... maybe I wouldn't care for more adventures of Luke/Han/Leia if the ST gave me compelling, interesting, complex characters like them. Characters that seemed to be fun together and had fun together, and when together was interesting and fun to watch. Characters that didn't need all kinds of crazy and "cute" characters tacked onto them (Zorri Bliss, Babu Frikk, D-O, BB-8, Maz, whatever that slug thing is in the beginning of RoS, Rose, etc.)

I don't think its crazy to ask for a few scenes of poignancy from the characters that are passing the torch. You can do that, and have them pass the torch, and have them meaningfully set up the new characters. But even in this way, theres nothing in the ST. Han kind of helps Rey along. But treats Finn like secondary and comedic relief. Luke has no interaction with Finn or Poe. Leia kinda sets up Poe, only in her lambasting him in TLJ and them re-doing his arc there, and then him having to take her place in RoS because of Carrie's death. Luke kinda sets up Rey, but Luke's character is butchered in the process. So not really a net-win on that one.

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Re: SPOILERS: STAR WARS: EPISODE 9: THE RISE OF SKYWALKERS [SPOILERS]

Post by Cam Solusar »

Gergall wrote:
Cam Solusar wrote:
December 22nd, 2019, 8:57 pm
Curious about what made TLJ so great, and why you would even rank it higher than say 5 or 4?
... the idea of parentage not mattering is huge for me ...
Spoiler
Show
Is Ep9 not satisfactory in this regard?
1. She learns that her biological ancestry plays an important role in her natural-born abilities.
2. She decides that her biological ancestry will NOT choose her path in life. She makes her own choice.
3. In the end, she chooses who her family is. Her birth name does not matter.

I think you take issue with the first point. You liked it when Rey had force powers despite being a nobody. But look, it's a fact of life that your parents determine your starting point (and in Star Wars, that often means it determines if you have force powers). I think points 2 and 3 are a much more meaningful lesson for kids.
Those were definitely great lessons in the movie, and one of my unreservedly positive takeaways. But I'd rather watch a star wars movie that has the feel of a star wars movie than a star wars movie that has the feel of a 3rd tier marvel movie. I'm sure iron man 3 had some sort of positive takeaway, but it's probably not worth the effort.

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Re: SPOILERS: STAR WARS: EPISODE 9: THE RISE OF SKYWALKERS [SPOILERS]

Post by AdmiralMotti89 »

Gergall wrote:
December 23rd, 2019, 12:45 am
Cam Solusar wrote:
December 22nd, 2019, 8:57 pm
Curious about what made TLJ so great, and why you would even rank it higher than say 5 or 4?
... the idea of parentage not mattering is huge for me ...
Spoiler
Show
Is Ep9 not satisfactory in this regard?
1. She learns that her biological ancestry plays an important role in her natural-born abilities.
2. She decides that her biological ancestry will NOT choose her path in life. She makes her own choice.
3. In the end, she chooses who her family is. Her birth name does not matter.

I think you take issue with the first point. You liked it when Rey had force powers despite being a nobody. But look, it's a fact of life that your parents determine your starting point (and in Star Wars, that often means it determines if you have force powers). I think points 2 and 3 are a much more meaningful lesson for kids.
I think that's a good breakdown of why the substance behind the rey ancestry reveal was good, even if I got some "you're a wizard, harry" vibes in the execution. (This is why I am on a totally different planet from the Ep VIII loving, I found the shell to be pretty but overall it was very hollow. Seeing Rose's motives (saving the animals and her nauseatingly sappy and naive reason for overriding Finn's sacrifice) was the exact opposite of compelling. Nothing Poe or Finn did mattered, Holdo's motive for keeping her cards close to the chest was more of a movie suspense decision than an actual moral of the story one. It wasn't totally vacuous because Rey had some decisions to make and Luke decided to help for some reason, but overall who the characters were, what they were fighting for, and what was at stake were all easily the least compelling of anything 1-9. I will take good substance, bad execution over the opposite (which was IMO on display in TLJ) any day.)

I forget the quote and even who said it but I am pretty sure in the first half of the movie someone said that she is more than her blood or something like that. I actually really like how it does matter where she came from but it isn't totally dominant in her path.
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