Coronavirus

arebelspy
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by arebelspy »

You are missing my point. Allow me to elaborate.

I'm not saying we should tolerate comments or jokes that are racist, sexist, etc.

Not at all. Our community is better than that. What I'm saying is that there's a better solution than censoring: a community-driven approach that calls it out. Like Sokol did.

That makes our community better as a whole.

If it's just deleted, nothing gets better.

Right now you're saying a meeting what you dislike with force is the best solution. I'm saying: defund the police, and let's have community driven solutions.

I think we are 100% on the same page in terms of what type of comments should and shouldn't be said here.

We're just approaching the solution differently. I think the way to organically create a better culture isn't to delete offensive comments, but to discourage them, and as a community be better.

I understand that because of the person it's coming from, minds may have been set before even reading this post, and it may be dismissed out of hand. That's fine. But maybe this explanation helped you see where I'm coming from.



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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Madmanwithabox »

Appreciate the viewpoint, but from experience (over a decade of social media management, including moderation of a forum with over a million registered users, and a second in the hundreds of thousands), this approach does not work.

Leaving distasteful comments in place just encourages more, with trolls pushing the limit to see what they can get away with. Trolls don’t care if you call them out, they thrive on outrage.
Such comments have no place on this forum.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by allstarz97 »

arebelspy wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 2:54 am
You are missing my point. Allow me to elaborate.

I'm not saying we should tolerate comments or jokes that are racist, sexist, etc.

Not at all. Our community is better than that. What I'm saying is that there's a better solution than censoring: a community-driven approach that calls it out. Like Sokol did.

That makes our community better as a whole.

If it's just deleted, nothing gets better.

Right now you're saying a meeting what you dislike with force is the best solution. I'm saying: defund the police, and let's have community driven solutions.

I think we are 100% on the same page in terms of what type of comments should and shouldn't be said here.

We're just approaching the solution differently. I think the way to organically create a better culture isn't to delete offensive comments, but to discourage them, and as a community be better.

I understand that because of the person it's coming from, minds may have been set before even reading this post, and it may be dismissed out of hand. That's fine. But maybe this explanation helped you see where I'm coming from.
Yeah I got it the first time, and yes, agree that we're most likely on the same page in terms of disliking the same type of offensive content. Which is why I led with "you mean well".

Think of these comments as graffiti, you wouldn't leave offensive graffiti up in a public place.

Several years ago, someone photo-shopped my face onto Osama Bin Ladens body. I never saw the post, Steve and Mike aggressively defended me/threatened acts of violence to the poster.. the whole thing was a mess. It was all deleted. I never actually saw any of the posts.

This isn't about identifying with Edward Snowden, it's about identifying with marginalized communities and ensuring that everyone feels welcomed.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by MrPurple »

If someone sees a post that's so offensive to them they might not feel comfortable speaking out. "Oh that was just a joke lighten up." "There's more context there you're missing." They might feel safer reaching out to a moderator than facing any community backlash. And that's fine.

The mods are here for a reason. They obviously felt the jokes didn't cross a line.

Hopefully as a community when we see jokes/comments that are offensive/inappropriate we can at the very least start calling them out. Small comments here-and-there keep adding up and I am glad as a community we're taking steps to address them.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by JarJarDrinks »

I'm with Joe.


I can't believe how many people here are pro-censorship.
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October 2nd, 2019, 12:12 pm
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by JarJarDrinks »

allstarz97 wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 8:20 am
Several years ago, someone photo-shopped my face onto Osama Bin Ladens body.
This is different because it's harassment.

Like the difference between saying the Nword and following a black person down the street shouting it at them.
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October 2nd, 2019, 12:12 pm
I would be all for a reset if I get to be on the reset team
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by arebelspy »

Okay Justin, thank you for your post and acknowledging what I mean. We'll have to agree to disagree.

A post like the one you described about you should absolutely be removed.
MrPurple wrote:If someone sees a post that's so offensive to them they might not feel comfortable speaking out. "Oh that was just a joke lighten up." "There's more context there you're missing."
And that's a community problem, and one that would be better solved with making our community a better place.

How inclusive does it feel when they report something to a moderator and nothing is done?
JarJarDrinks wrote:
allstarz97 wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 8:20 am
Several years ago, someone photo-shopped my face onto Osama Bin Ladens body.
This is different because it's harassment.

Like the difference between saying the Nword and following a black person down the street shouting it at them.
Neither of which should be acceptable.

Anyways, I'm in the minority, and it doesn't matter anyways, because people with power always want to keep that power. Just wanted to explain the problem I have with moderation, why I think it could be done better, and how a community-driven solution of deescalation and decency standards is one that leads to a healthier society long-term.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by JarJarDrinks »

give us an autonomous forum where we can mod ourselves.


#SWAZ
dx_37 wrote:
October 2nd, 2019, 12:12 pm
I would be all for a reset if I get to be on the reset team
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Death Star »

arebelspy wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 10:34 am
Anyways, I'm in the minority, and it doesn't matter anyways, because people with power always want to keep that power.
Right, that was my main takeaway from Darren‘s post too...
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by The Franchise »

Nothing profound to add here and I am likely the worst voice for it to come from, but we all can be better with what we say and how we conduct ourselves here and elsewhere. I do not have a strong opinion on the moderation policy, but if we all slow down and think before we post, it may eliminate the need for much moderation.

And when people misstep- and they will, I certainly have- however it is dealt with, it provides an opportunity for personal growth, for people to learn from their mistakes, to learn why something they did can be harmful. Sometimes its obvious, but sometimes it is not. I can only speak from my own experiences on some of these issues- in many ways certain things did not click for me as abstract concepts, but as I have grown and gotten to know more people with varied backgrounds and opinions in recent years, it helped me put a face to people facing various forms of discrimination, and provided to me a more tangible example of the negative effects of poor conduct, but also showed how even small changes in wording and conduct can have a strong positive effect on a community.

I am not too involved here any more, and nothing changes the past, but in my opinion we owe it to ourselves, to each other, and to future players of the game to try to be better, and I am committed to trying to do what I can to be more welcoming in the future.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by The Franchise »

On corona:

Went to happy hour with a couple of friends last night. Only outdoor part of bar was open. All picnic tables spread fairly far apart. No patrons wore masks, all employees did. Lots of dogs.

It didnt really feel any different than if we had gone to an outdoor bar pre pandemic.

Apparently for the golf tournament this summer they will allow spectators but all have to wear a mask, temperatures will be 90+ probably so we will see how that works out

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by AdmiralMotti89 »

arebelspy wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 6:24 pm
I'm of the opinion distasteful jokes aren't good, but censoring them is worse.

Best to call them out as a community and say they're bad. Sokol's approach = perfect.

Reporting it to moderators, or moderators removing things like that = awful.

We're all adults. If someone says a distasteful joke, let it slide, or don't. Demand better of the community. But treating someone like a toddler, censoring them, "warning" them, etc. is ridiculous.

Moderation should be for things like someone inciting violence, advocating for something illegal, posting child porn, idk, stuff of that nature.

Someone offending someone else's sensibilities with a joke that is in poor taste, well, that should be left. It should reflect on the character of who posted it, and of those who pushed back against it. Not moderated and removed.

We set the standards of our community, and making something go poof doesn't enhance that.
I agree with most of this. Except I think MrPurple's response was far from perfect, because I think it was based on a rather large misinterpretation of both jokes, and didn't even explain why the jokes actually do the bad things they are alleged to do.

1. Criticize something as bad
2. Explain why it's bad (specifically justify the claims in this case of what is normalized or perpetuated)
3. Suggest a better alternative

I think this is a good approach, except I think the original post is so lacking in step 2 that not much remains substantiable other than the idea that each person should try to be better in general.

So MrP I'd be interested in hearing specifically why you thought the jokes relied on racism and perpetuated aggression.
MrPurple wrote:
June 10th, 2020, 11:17 am
3MW0J8 wrote:
June 8th, 2020, 1:07 pm
You guys covid is dead. George Floyd gave his life to kill it.
Hunter wrote:
June 9th, 2020, 6:42 am
Hey Reid, did you hear that joke about the cure for Covid-19? It's a riot!
I am really disheartened that the community didn't call these two jokes out more. These jokes normalize and perpetuate the very type of aggression we need to dismantle. Jokes aren't funny when they have to rely on racism or the misfortune of others to land a punchline. If we silently condone or don't act up against jokes like this, we are part of the problem.

Over the past few weeks I've had to take a long hard look at myself and the community I live in and I want to be better, as should you all. Comments/jokes like these are just a small part of the problem, but they are part of the problem. I am not here claiming I am some saint.. I've cracked jokes like this recently and I look back in shame.

It really hit home for me when my friend sent a joke about cops to a few of us via text ("Why did the police get up early? So they could beat the crowd."). We laughed it off... and that's the problem. We can laugh it off. Many of us here have that luxury. As a community let's be better.
To say that the jokes rely on racism to be funny, or that they "normalize" and "perpetuate" "aggression" is an extraordinary claim, and such claims require extraordinary evidence. Where in these jokes is the notion that what happened to George Floyd should be normal or keep happening? Or if that's not what you meant by "aggression," what specifically did you mean was being "perpetuated?" In terms of racism, where is the notion that certain skin colors are superior to others?

An old joke for comparison:
It’s been reported that proud Soviet automakers challenged their American counterparts to a competition at the Brussels World’s Fair in 1958.
A Swiss engineer made an exhaustive comparison of a Soviet and an American car, and he favored the American.
After an awkward pause, the Soviet press reported that “in a recent international auto competition, the Russian car placed second and the American car was next to last.”
That joke mentions automobiles (which use fossil fuels), US-Soviet rivalry (which had huge effects on military conflicts and nuclear armament), and Swiss neutrality (they weren't exactly "acting up" against the Nazis in WWII). Does the joke "normalize" and "perpetuate" these things? Or is it getting at something completely different? Is it perhaps instead a joke about the attitudes of people commenting on the other things that were mentioned in the joke?

By that same token, do the jokes you quoted actually normalize and perpetuate racism and aggression? Or do the jokes point out something about the attitudes of people commenting on the other things that were mentioned in the joke?

In any case I really do appreciate that you focused on trying to convince people to choose to do (or not do) something instead of calling for things to be deleted.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by AdmiralMotti89 »

allstarz97 wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 8:20 pm
Someone offending someone else's sensibilities with a joke that is in poor taste, well, that should be left.
Not if it ties into any type of bigotry, harassment, bullying etc.
"Ties into" is extremely vague.
Years ago, I beat up my high school bully with a baseball bat. Both of his arms were broken.
Come to think of it, that's probably why I felt brave enough to beat him up.
That joke "ties into" bullying. But it would be quite foolish to say it's encouraging bullying or countering bullying with violence, for example.
To this day, the boy that used to bully me at school still takes my lunch money.
On the plus side, he makes great Subway sandwiches.
Those jokes no more "normalize" and "perpetuate" bullying or violence than the other two jokes "normalize" and "perpetuate" aggression or racism. What makes them funny isn't actually about bullying at all.
allstarz97 wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 8:18 pm
A joke about a black person should never be something that is "let slide", us being adults has nothing to do with a joke about a woman, minorities, LGBTQs, victims of sexual assault (ie using the term rape in a casual manner) and should NEVER be allowed to remain on a message board. White men have a long history of telling offended parties to shrug things off, or that somehow they should pull up our big boys pants and be ok with the "joke". SWCCG should be as inclusive as possible, even if our player base is 95%+ white male.
"about a black person" is horrendously vague. The Kanye "let you finish" meme is a joke "about" a black person. Is that racist? Should we take it down when someone uses it? It's not making a statement that some race is superior to another. It's not about race at all. It's a parody of something infamous he as an individual said and did.

This meme involves a man looking at a woman he presumably finds attractive. That's objectification and making light of the male gaze. Should it be censored?
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This meme involves a girl being bullied by exclusion. Should it be censored?
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This involves drug addiction. Censor it?
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Child abuse! Censor it?
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Perhaps memes should be censored in any case? As many are forms of inside jokes, that makes them exclusionary, right? Doesn't seem too inclusive.
What is Barack Obama's favorite TV show? Game of Drones.

That refers to a black person and a mentions a sensitive issue involving killing people. Censor it?

There's a difference between a joke actually requiring a racially bigoted belief, for example, to be funny to a person (such as them genuinely believing sterotypical traits of an ethnic group/race to be true, and without that belief the joke would not connect to anything) and one that references an issue that has to do with race that makes a point about the attitudes of people commenting on that issue. That's what the two "problematic" jokes were actually about.
allstarz97 wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 8:18 pm
A joke about a black person should never be something that is "let slide", us being adults has nothing to do with a joke about a woman, minorities, LGBTQs, victims of sexual assault (ie using the term rape in a casual manner) and should NEVER be allowed to remain on a message board.
JarJarDrinks wrote:
June 10th, 2020, 4:16 pm
Hunter wrote:
June 10th, 2020, 3:22 am
Ah yes. "The Man. The Myth. The Legend."
I remember those articles. For years afterward, there were a couple of people who would continue to say "Tiger Style!" when seeing me at events. :)
So I guess the theory that I'm a machine goes back to...I don't know, 2002 or so?
I don't really have any evidence to debunk it, so I'll let you have this one.
Dont forget about your vibrating penis that turns lesbians straight...
Did you report this one from JJD? Why or why not? It's "about" lesbians, isn't it?

I noticed in your list of protected classes, people with disabilities or mental health issues were not included. Should jokes "about" people with these characteristics be allowed? Or maybe you don't think they should be allowed, but you left those characteristics off your list anyways? That's not very inclusive. Perhaps even offensive, to have a list with some marginalized groups needing protection but not others. Imagine how a person who needs your selfless and benevolent protection would feel if they see they have been left off your list. Where is the report button, anyways?

I think you should to ask yourself why you so infantilize people with certain characteristics that you think jokes that mention people who have those characteristics while making a point about something else entirely are harmful.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by AdmiralMotti89 »

quickdraw3457 wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 10:27 pm
Gotta agree with Justin here, moderation is not here to make sure our tight-knit community can have uncensored, mature, adult conversations that stop just short of personal threats, it's to make sure this is a welcoming place for people that come here and haven't met everybody in person (among other things). This is a Star Wars CCG message board. There are people coming here to see what is happening with Star Wars ccg, and if what they see is a bunch of dudes making jokes that can be interpreted as racist/sexist/insensitive/immature then many of those people will not care to come back again. I think in any off topic conversation here, everyone still has to remember that moderation has to have the PC's best interest in mind first.
Things can be interpreted all sorts of ways. Many of them incorrectly. If we censor people's posts because a person might misinterpret them and feel unwelcome, we'd have to censor a whole lot more than jokes (In any case, the comments in a thread by a new player about the p-word are often about as unwelcoming as actually happen on here.)

How many of the memes in the meme thread would be left if we applied the allstarz standard? And with all the ones we'd remove, how many opportunities at humor involving the idiosyncrasies of SWCCG would we lose the opportunity to share? If we want to actually have an open and welcoming community, we shouldn't start censoring people because others who don't understand what's being said ostentatiously take offense when none is given.

People should strive to write in such a way that the average, well-intentioned person will understand what they are saying. That's a good standard. There will inevitably be misunderstandings that have to be worked through, but that's not a reason to censor. What's NOT a good standard is expecting people to write in such a way that no other person, regardless of how obtuse (hopefully unintentionally) the other person is being, could voice offense. I'm not saying that's what you're calling for, I am saying that's where it leads when you start worrying about things getting interpreted in the worst way in spite of what was actually intended and generally evident.

And just to be clear, you're not saying that these two jokes Mr. Purple quoted "stop just short of personal threats," correct?
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by AdmiralMotti89 »

Madmanwithabox wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 3:49 am
Appreciate the viewpoint, but from experience (over a decade of social media management, including moderation of a forum with over a million registered users, and a second in the hundreds of thousands), this approach does not work.

Leaving distasteful comments in place just encourages more, with trolls pushing the limit to see what they can get away with. Trolls don’t care if you call them out, they thrive on outrage.
Such comments have no place on this forum.
Who decides what's "distasteful?" In this case, it seems people who are confused and don't even understand the jokes. The premise behind criticizing those jokes (or reporting them) was that they allegedly relied on racism and/or normalized and perpetuated aggression. There has been zero justification for either of those claims. Now I actually believe that a joke that actually asserts racial stereotypes to be true is distasteful, but where is the slightest shred of justification for saying those two do? The allstarz standard is untenable, and sets up the notion that a joke that merely involves someone who happens to be in a marginalized group is harmful. You might as well change the forum guidelines to prohibit mention of "sensitive" topics, joke or not. If the standard is that someone might get offended, that's where we end up.
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Do those jokes normalize and perpetuate labor camps or wrongful imprisonment? They mention those things, and they are jokes, so they must be saying they are good, right? Or are the jokes actually about something completely different, poking at the fickleness of an authoritarian, censorious regime?

Mods should focus more on posts that say "He must be scum" about a member than on patrolling for jokes they don't understand to prevent offense from equally confused parties. I thought this thread was being closely monitored, but apparently that was for things someone might find offensive after misinterpreting them, not blatant personal attacks that have nothing to do with any idea in the discussion (not that I really am too concerned about name calling in an absolute sense, anyways, especially against Hunter :P ).
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by AdmiralMotti89 »

In any case, that is the most in depth I will be able to get on any of that, with a lot of busy times coming up. I would be interested in reading (even if I might not respond anytime soon) arguments as to why:
1. The two jokes originally quoted rely on racism and normalize and perpetuate "aggression" (and what is meant by aggression)
2. That a joke that mentions a person who happens to have certain immutable characteristics is attacking that person for those characteristics.
3. The fear that someone could interpret something a certain way and become offended at it should be a standard for deciding what things to remove from discussions
4. Jokes seem to go over the heads of SWCCG World Champions more often than for the average person and when it does happen, they tend to get really huffy about it. :P ;)
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by arebelspy »

The Franchise wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 11:52 am
Nothing profound to add here and I am likely the worst voice for it to come from, but we all can be better with what we say and how we conduct ourselves here and elsewhere. I do not have a strong opinion on the moderation policy, but if we all slow down and think before we post, it may eliminate the need for much moderation.

And when people misstep- and they will, I certainly have- however it is dealt with, it provides an opportunity for personal growth, for people to learn from their mistakes, to learn why something they did can be harmful. Sometimes its obvious, but sometimes it is not. I can only speak from my own experiences on some of these issues- in many ways certain things did not click for me as abstract concepts, but as I have grown and gotten to know more people with varied backgrounds and opinions in recent years, it helped me put a face to people facing various forms of discrimination, and provided to me a more tangible example of the negative effects of poor conduct, but also showed how even small changes in wording and conduct can have a strong positive effect on a community.

I am not too involved here any more, and nothing changes the past, but in my opinion we owe it to ourselves, to each other, and to future players of the game to try to be better, and I am committed to trying to do what I can to be more welcoming in the future.
I love everything about this post.

Very well said.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by arebelspy »

AdmiralMotti89 wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 1:32 pm
I agree with most of this. Except I think MrPurple's response was far from perfect
Whether or not his exact post was perfect, or could have been elaborated on, or whatever, the method was what I was calling out.

Speaking up and calling out things our community doesn't want to tolerate or appreciate, and setting a high standard of conduct.
AdmiralMotti89 wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 1:32 pm
An old joke for comparison:
It’s been reported that proud Soviet automakers challenged their American counterparts to a competition at the Brussels World’s Fair in 1958.
A Swiss engineer made an exhaustive comparison of a Soviet and an American car, and he favored the American.
After an awkward pause, the Soviet press reported that “in a recent international auto competition, the Russian car placed second and the American car was next to last.”
That joke mentions automobiles (which use fossil fuels), US-Soviet rivalry (which had huge effects on military conflicts and nuclear armament), and Swiss neutrality (they weren't exactly "acting up" against the Nazis in WWII). Does the joke "normalize" and "perpetuate" these things? Or is it getting at something completely different? Is it perhaps instead a joke about the attitudes of people commenting on the other things that were mentioned in the joke?

By that same token, do the jokes you quoted actually normalize and perpetuate racism and aggression? Or do the jokes point out something about the attitudes of people commenting on the other things that were mentioned in the joke?
Those things (swiss neutrality, automobiles, coldwar, etc.) are not peoples opressed and systematically discriminated against for centuries or more.

No one is harmed by normalizing them, or joking about them.

People certainly are harmed by joking about police aggression and their murder of black people, and making it more standard as something for us to laugh off and accept.
In any case I really do appreciate that you focused on trying to convince people to choose to do (or not do) something instead of calling for things to be deleted.
Bingo. And this is what I was saying I appreciated. Helping our community grow and be better, rather than just censoring and deleting.

The personal growth Brad talked about in his last post, that's how it's achieved.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by arebelspy »

AdmiralMotti89 wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 1:33 pm
allstarz97 wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 8:20 pm
Someone offending someone else's sensibilities with a joke that is in poor taste, well, that should be left.
Not if it ties into any type of bigotry, harassment, bullying etc.
"Ties into" is extremely vague.
Years ago, I beat up my high school bully with a baseball bat. Both of his arms were broken.
Come to think of it, that's probably why I felt brave enough to beat him up.
That joke "ties into" bullying. But it would be quite foolish to say it's encouraging bullying or countering bullying with violence, for example.
Why exactly is that "quite foolish"? It seems exactly like it promotes violence to deal with bullying.
To this day, the boy that used to bully me at school still takes my lunch money.
On the plus side, he makes great Subway sandwiches.
This joke makes fun of bullying (the bully grew up to be a loser). The former one makes bullying and violence glorified.

Making bullying seem cool versus not cool. They are opposites in what they promote.
Those jokes no more "normalize" and "perpetuate" bullying or violence than the other two jokes "normalize" and "perpetuate" aggression or racism. What makes them funny isn't actually about bullying at all.
Right, what makes them funny is the unexpected twist in the punchline. Setup, pull out the rug. Just because it isn't the bullying that makes them funny doesn't mean they don't also encourage or promote it.

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allstarz97 wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 8:18 pm
A joke about a black person should never be something that is "let slide", us being adults has nothing to do with a joke about a woman, minorities, LGBTQs, victims of sexual assault (ie using the term rape in a casual manner) and should NEVER be allowed to remain on a message board. White men have a long history of telling offended parties to shrug things off, or that somehow they should pull up our big boys pants and be ok with the "joke". SWCCG should be as inclusive as possible, even if our player base is 95%+ white male.
"about a black person" is horrendously vague. The Kanye "let you finish" meme is a joke "about" a black person. Is that racist? Should we take it down when someone uses it? It's not making a statement that some race is superior to another. It's not about race at all. It's a parody of something infamous he as an individual said and did.

This meme involves a man looking at a woman he presumably finds attractive. That's objectification and making light of the male gaze. Should it be censored?
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This meme involves a girl being bullied by exclusion. Should it be censored?
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This involves drug addiction. Censor it?
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Child abuse! Censor it?
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Perhaps memes should be censored in any case? As many are forms of inside jokes, that makes them exclusionary, right? Doesn't seem too inclusive.
What is Barack Obama's favorite TV show? Game of Drones.

That refers to a black person and a mentions a sensitive issue involving killing people. Censor it?

There's a difference between a joke actually requiring a racially bigoted belief, for example, to be funny to a person (such as them genuinely believing sterotypical traits of an ethnic group/race to be true, and without that belief the joke would not connect to anything) and one that references an issue that has to do with race that makes a point about the attitudes of people commenting on that issue. That's what the two "problematic" jokes were actually about.
allstarz97 wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 8:18 pm
A joke about a black person should never be something that is "let slide", us being adults has nothing to do with a joke about a woman, minorities, LGBTQs, victims of sexual assault (ie using the term rape in a casual manner) and should NEVER be allowed to remain on a message board.
JarJarDrinks wrote:
June 10th, 2020, 4:16 pm
Hunter wrote:
June 10th, 2020, 3:22 am
Ah yes. "The Man. The Myth. The Legend."
I remember those articles. For years afterward, there were a couple of people who would continue to say "Tiger Style!" when seeing me at events. :)
So I guess the theory that I'm a machine goes back to...I don't know, 2002 or so?
I don't really have any evidence to debunk it, so I'll let you have this one.
Dont forget about your vibrating penis that turns lesbians straight...
Did you report this one from JJD? Why or why not? It's "about" lesbians, isn't it?
Those are good points (the memes) on where do you draw the line. And that's why I advocate for a community based approach where we call out things when they are problematic, rather than having unclear and vague moderation that sometimes removes stuff, sometimes doesn't, and we don't improve as a group, and don't demand better.

I noticed in your list of protected classes, people with disabilities or mental health issues were not included. Should jokes "about" people with these characteristics be allowed? Or maybe you don't think they should be allowed, but you left those characteristics off your list anyways? That's not very inclusive. Perhaps even offensive, to have a list with some marginalized groups needing protection but not others. Imagine how a person who needs your selfless and benevolent protection would feel if they see they have been left off your list. Where is the report button, anyways?
There is a reason we have protected classes, and that list grows (and every one may not be mentioned when someone makes a list, nor should they need to be). People who have experienced categorical discrimination historically need to have that reversed. And since it's so systemic, it can't just be ignored, but actively fought against.
I think you should to ask yourself why you so infantilize people with certain characteristics that you think jokes that mention people who have those characteristics while making a point about something else entirely are harmful.
Being sensitive to issues and even protecting people who might need it (with some overlap of those who might not) is not infantilizing them.

allstarz97
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Posts: 6977
Joined: April 1st, 2007, 2:15 pm

Re: Coronavirus

Post by allstarz97 »

Out with the kids- but real quick:

Yeah- the posts about being better and learning and growing of course are the best. They work within all contexts. Should be the starting point for everything. Everything that comes from calling things out when they aren’t great get thumbs up from me.. I just think that the offensive posts should be removed once they are called out/seen, and even if one is removed that maybe shouldn’t be.. The risk is a feeling of undue censorship vs the potential to feel bullied/be marginalized via race/sex etc.. I’d rather err on the side of caution there.

When listing the groups that I classified as marginalized, that was not all inclusive, If I say “top swccg players like bastian, chu and Brian hunter” that doesn’t mean that I’m slighting emil.

Yes, would certainly include jjds post as being offensive. I don’t read every thread here though. That would be on my list of something that should be censored and reported. And this is lazy, but there are times I see things that aren’t great and don’t do anything hoping someone else does, not a great thing, need to be better on that.

But anyway, not trying to win the argument, I said my perspective, it’s not the only reasonable one.

Cheers.

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