Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

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Re: Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

Post by Platypus »

quickdraw3457 wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 8:00 am
Great topic!

The sequel trilogy we got is actually a parallel universe that branched out on Endor in Return of the Jedi when Leia tells luke to run far away and instead of confronting Vader and the Emperor, he does just that -- runs away. It is not a continuation of the story where Luke sees the good in Vader, and Vader kills the Emperor, although the Rebels do still succeed in blowing up the second Death Star (because Luke didn't help with that anyway), except this time Emperor didn't stick around because there was no need to -- Luke never showed up.
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Re: Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

Post by The Franchise »

Happy to see some love for ep 1 and 9, I liked both, but ep 1 was the first SW film I saw so always been somewhat biased

I have two potentially controversial sw opinions.

1. Ep 8 was bad, but would have been better if it ended with Kylo reaching out his hand in Snokes throne room (possibly even Rey grabbing said hand). Now, idk how you fit the Crait battle into ep 9 under this premise, but nonetheless it felt like such a natural ending point

2. Episode 4 is better than episode 5

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Re: Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

Post by maxbeedo »

(I'll avoid mention of Ep. 8, as that would be too easy to start an argument)

Ep. 1 is easily the best and most enjoyable prequel and deserves the bulk of the credit for establishing the music and several of the settings that Ep. 2 and 3 reused. Jar Jar didn't bother me at all.

KOTOR2 is the best Star Wars story ever told, but it'll never get any credit because it "solves" the universe too well, negating the need for future stories.

Rogue One has terrible protagonists, and ruins its own message by showing every character giving up and dying instead of fighting until the end. In contrast to Leia, I actually thought the CG Grand Moff Tarkin was pretty good.

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Re: Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

Post by Gergall »

maxbeedo wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 1:49 pm
Rogue One has terrible protagonists, and ruins its own message by showing every character giving up and dying instead of fighting until the end.
????
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Re: Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

Post by rhendon »

maxbeedo wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 1:49 pm
KOTOR2 is the best Star Wars story ever told, but it'll never get any credit because it "solves" the universe too well, negating the need for future stories.
I wish it had been fleshed out more than the game gave it. I felt like it was a bit to choppy in spots but overall thought it was a good story.

Visas was my favorite character they introduced and I usually choose the Miraluka race when I can in games because of KOTOR2.

It's plot hook with Kreya was a bit more obvious than the hook in KOTOR1 though and that is usually what puts KOTOR1 above 2 for me but the story in KOTOR1 loses replay value when you already know that hook.

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Re: Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

Post by lsrubin »

The Zahn trilogy was bad.

Clone Luuke, random cloned Dark Jedi, whatever "outbound flight" was, a secret fleet of Dreadnaughts that just belongs to whomever finds it, Thrawn the impossible genius... ugh. Mara Jade is possibly the EU's most overrated character. All the seeds of how bad the EU would end up getting, were in Heir to the Empire.

Also, Return of the Jedi is bad.

"Bad" is, of course, a relative term. It was better than the prequels, and better than Episode 9, and MAYBE better than Solo, but that's it.

(1) It completely neuters Vader as a villain and gives him nothing interesting to do. In ANH, he tortures people, trades barbs with the other Imperial officers, blows up a planet, shoots down a bunch of pilots (including Red Leader and Biggs), and kills Obi-Wan in cold blood while Luke watches in horror. In ESB, he does more murder and torture, then cuts off Luke's hand and only THEN says "btw I'm your dad." But in RotJ? He gives Jerjerrod a "just wait 'til your father gets home" speech, then just chills out until it's time to go collect Luke. When he does that, it's not the evil version of Vader we're used to; he's all "it's too late for me, I must obey my master," etc. The first two movies set up Vader as an amazing villain, and then RotJ reduces him to... basically Igor, before he finally turns.

(2) The first half of the movie has absolutely nothing to do with the second half. If anyone submitted this script to a major studio in 2020, they'd get a very diplomatic "try again" email in response. The Jabba's Palace stuff goes on for a lot longer than it has to. You could solve this problem (AND the first problem) by integrating Vader into the first half of the movie. It would make sense: Vader knew that Fett was taking Han to Jabba, and he surely anticipated that Luke would try to free his friend... so why isn't there a battalion of stormtroopers waiting for them on Tatooine? Hell, why isn't Vader there himself? Maybe Vader made a deal with Jabba to lure Luke to the Palace. Or maybe Vader just killed Jabba? Who knows? It would give the main villain some actual villainous * to do, AND you could knock out some of the exposition stuff so you wouldn't need as much of an interlude on Dagobah.

(3) The dialogue is occasionally good, but also gets really bad in places. "I see you have constructed a new lightsaber; your skills are complete. Indeed you are powerful, as the Emperor has foreseen." Lol wut? Nah. Basically, a lot of things that sucked about the prequels, also kinda sucked in RotJ, just not *quite* as badly.

(4) To me, it marks the clear line of demarcation where Lucas started caring about toy sales a lot more than he cared about making a good movie. I don't have any actual evidence of this, but ANH and ESB feel like watching *movies.* RotJ feels like watching a *2-hour toy commercial.*

(5) And then Ian McDiarmid acts his face off, the Throne Room scenes legitimately slap, and I forget about all of those things and feel good at the end of it. But no longer. Ian McDiarmid can't save RotJ from being the most overrated movie in the saga.
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Re: Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

Post by hanotsri »

1. I agree with Boba Fett, but it appears we're getting him again.

2. I am no longer ranking, but The Phantom Menace and The Last Jedi would be in contention for my favorite Star Wars movie

3. Solo would be in contention for my least favorite Star Wars movie

4. The final arc of The Clone Wars and MAYBE The Mandalorian are better than most Star Wars movies

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Re: Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

Post by quickdraw3457 »

Damn Lenny just turned this thread up to 11. That is pretty controversial, disliking the Thrawn trilogy + not liking Vader's development as a character in ROTJ.
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Re: Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

Post by CRG »

lsrubin wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 2:44 pm
Also, Return of the Jedi is bad.
Preach! Least favorite of the OT and it's not close.
lsrubin wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 2:44 pm
(5) And then Ian McDiarmid acts his face off, the Throne Room scenes legitimately slap, and I forget about all of those things and feel good at the end of it.
Also agree.
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Re: Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

Post by maxbeedo »

Gergall wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 2:27 pm
maxbeedo wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 1:49 pm
Rogue One has terrible protagonists, and ruins its own message by showing every character giving up and dying instead of fighting until the end.
????
Saw Gerrera - "I could escape, or go deeper into the bunker somewhere, but I choose to die here for some reason."
Bodhi Rook - "Oh, a grenade, I'll stare at it as it bounces around and not try to throw it back or dive out of the ship or anything."
Chirrut Imwe - "I flipped the switch, but now it's my time to die so I'll stand here."
Baze Malbus - "Oh, a grenade, but I'm too tired to move."
Cassian and Jyn - "We could try to run, or maybe signal someone, but let's embrace instead." (This one's slightly forgivable.)

K-2SO - "I'm the only character that dies fighting, and I'm just a droid."

You can watch How It Should Have Ended to get the gist of some of these.

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Re: Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

Post by mr007agent »

All of the Star Wars movies are pretty bad except for 4 and 5.
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Re: Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

Post by rhendon »

quickdraw3457 wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 2:57 pm
Damn Lenny just turned this thread up to 11. That is pretty controversial, disliking the Thrawn trilogy + not liking Vader's development as a character in ROTJ.
He isn't entirely wrong about the Thrawn trilogy. I've always thought it was a bit overrated. Like it was good but it gets way overhyped.

I liked Mara's character as it evolved throughout the EU. But initially it was whatever.

Also, do people really like Solo? If so, then I'd like to put that in here. That was literally the worst movie I've ever sat through in my life, including Battlefield Earth. That was just a terrible movie, ruined so much history and great stories with such a crap 2 hours.

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Re: Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

Post by quesosauce37 »

Hayes wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 11:52 am
quesosauce37 wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 11:29 am
Episode I is the 3rd best star wars film, after Empire Strikes Back and Rogue One, you didnt need to add the bit about Jar Jar, Jar Jar is a FANTASTIC character, who if he had his own show i would watch it every week.
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Re: Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

Post by Gergall »

maxbeedo wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 3:11 pm
Saw Gerrera - "I could escape, or go deeper into the bunker somewhere, but I choose to die here for some reason."
Bodhi Rook - "Oh, a grenade, I'll stare at it as it bounces around and not try to throw it back or dive out of the ship or anything."
Chirrut Imwe - "I flipped the switch, but now it's my time to die so I'll stand here."
Baze Malbus - "Oh, a grenade, but I'm too tired to move."
Cassian and Jyn - "We could try to run, or maybe signal someone, but let's embrace instead." (This one's slightly forgivable.)

K-2SO - "I'm the only character that dies fighting, and I'm just a droid."

You can watch How It Should Have Ended to get the gist of some of these.
Saw - agree

Bodhi - He could have tried, but for what it's worth, he wouldn't have been quick enough. It explodes less than 2 seconds after landing. I get your point about wanting to see him try. Maybe he knew from experience that it wasn't possible.

Chirrut - You remembered the movie wrong? He hits the switch then starts going back to Baze and gets blown up.

Baze - He gets shot once and struggles to keep walking. Then he gets shot a second time, and this one is square in the chest. He collapses to the ground and doesn't move another inch. Then a grenade lands near him.

Cassian and Jyn - You're being silly.
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Re: Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

Post by Corran »

Return of the Jedi is the worst Star Wars movie. I’m still trying to finish the Thrawn Trilogy. It was great for it’s time, but does not hold up.
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Re: Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

Post by chriskelly »

I love rotj but I do admit, Lenny’s idea for Vader to have set a trap for Luke makes a whole lot of sense and would have been phenomenal.

But I still love the move.

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Re: Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

Post by stephengascrub »

1.) Attack of the Clones is the best Prequel movie. Besides the Anakin and Padme romance, which was awful, and the scene where she gets hurt and then pops up and says okay I'm fine, it's actually pretty decent. People really hate on this movie, but besides that stuff, I'd argue it's not THAT bad.

2.) Revenge of the Sith is laughably overrated. It's a BAD movie. Some people put it in the same tier as the original trilogy, which is hilarious to me. Without the Clone Wars series to fill in the gaps, this movie is pretty bad. Anakin's fall to the DS is really not believable at all. The scene where he says he hates Obi-Wan makes literally no sense, etc., etc. A lot of this becomes markedly better once we have the Clone Wars series, and we can see all of the factors pushing Anakin to make the decisions he does, beyond the stuff with the Tusken Raiders in Episode II and his blind belief Palpatine can save Padme's life. The thing is...the series wasn't out yet. This movie has the BEST material/arc to work with (save maybe Luke finding out Vader is his daddy in Empire Strikes Back). The fact that this movie isn't clearly better than any Star Wars movie except Empire, speaks to how poorly it was directed, acted, and written. So yeah.

Also, if anyone else except me on these forums likes Attack of the Clones, I'll be shocked.
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Re: Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

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I like EPII. Probably more than any of the sequel trilogy at least.
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Re: Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

Post by swyodarth »

mingtown wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 12:01 pm
The Empire did nothing wrong.
I think the Empire had many flaws, but on that note the Sith were justified to overthrow the Republic and the Jedi. The Republic was irredeemably corrupt (Sith machinations exposed, but didn't cause this), and the Jedi were unelected bureaucrats who kidnapped babies to serve them. That was one of many of the morbid rules they had because they were afraid of the dark side. The films are told through the lens of pro-Jedi propaganda that tries to obstruct this truth.

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Re: Most Controversial Star Wars Opinions

Post by maxbeedo »

rhendon wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 2:41 pm
It's plot hook with Kreya was a bit more obvious than the hook in KOTOR1 though and that is usually what puts KOTOR1 above 2 for me but the story in KOTOR1 loses replay value when you already know that hook.
Was it obvious? I didn't fully understand her plan to "Destroy the Force" until the very end, and that wasn't even her plan A. The game plays on your expectations of SW media multiple times, by making you think the Council drained your powers (like in KOTOR1), or that Kreia turns out to be a stereotypical Sith villain at the end (she's not). KOTOR1's characters and story were much simpler, which makes it harder to enjoy on future playthroughs, but I do give it credit for coming up with the Jedi and Sith codes and starting some of the conversations on their philosophies that KOTOR2 ran with.
stephengascrub wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 7:44 pm
2.) Revenge of the Sith is laughably overrated...
Agree. I actually kinda love the first 3/4ths of the movie. The opening battle, Palpatine's manipulation of Anakin, the tension between the Council and Anakin, I feel like the setup for the fall was strong enough despite dealing with terrible writing, but the clunky climax ruins all of that. With a better script and some small tweaks it could've and should've been amazing.

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