Deck Lists

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Jeeps
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Re: Deck Lists

Post by Jeeps »

typing is far easier, but I would never recommend requiring all lists be typed. Some people like doing things the hard way.


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Re: Deck Lists

Post by 3MW0J8 »

allstarz97 wrote:DQ'ing is a bad idea obviously, but I think what reid outlined is pretty solid. I think this is pretty similar to when you guys used to always show up late to day 2s, 3s... If you are the one showing up late it's easy to say "hey no big deal, everyone is here to have fun" But if you are on the other side, and you take time to adhere to the rules then you get annoyed when others don't. We are here to have fun but we are not playing warhammer in a basement, there is cash on the line, and people are spending $$ to fly to these things etc, we have a ridiculously detailed rulesbook, advocates etc...it's not just pure fun like people playing lotr or something. Saying it's all in fun no big deal you're a jerk for pointing it out is really a cop out, we're trying to make the game better, not nitpick you guys.

While dq'ing a kid is obviously going to make him never want to play again, a guy who comes across our site, used to play,but sees the way things are seemingly run might also never join because it looks like we are said "warhammer" basement guys and not what we really our, a dedicated group of players who DO take this game seriously....let alone someone who may or may not be offended by the word "jew" being thrown around casually. I am not in any way trying to say that your decklist is anti-semetic but when you use "jew" in a "joking" context I don't think it's good for the public perception of our game, neither is the planned misspelling of a word to include a swear word.

Is writing these decklist names all that fun for you? You guys keep saying we just want to have fun... is it really fun or is it just a pattern you've fallen into? If you guys are actually deriving fun from this then I don't really know what to say other than maybe you should leave giggling at writing swear words and other things that really shouldn't be connected to joking on decklists to a 13 teen year old or something...



...oh wait, there was entire class of 8th graders at nationals who DID write their decklists correctly...it was the adults that didn't.
Bumping cuz there's good stuff in this post and it got buried at the bottom of page 2. Especially telling is the final sentence.
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Re: Deck Lists

Post by stevetotheizz0 »

Jeeps wrote:typing is far easier, but I would never recommend requiring all lists be typed. Some people like doing things the hard way.

With holodeck you don't even have to type the whole thing to find and click on it within a search.

Export feature from holodeck to the decklist PDF would = Amazing.

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Re: Deck Lists

Post by Airdog2003 »

3MW0J8 wrote:
...oh wait, there was entire class of 8th graders at nationals who DID write their decklists correctly...it was the adults that didn't.
Bumping cuz there's good stuff in this post and it got buried at the bottom of page 2. Especially telling is the final sentence.
Well, apparently BHerold, Kevin and I have the maturity level of 7th graders when it comes to filling out deck lists. /cry

Honestly, if I really offended anyone by my lack of politcal correctness, I appologize and will try to keep it clean from now on...though given the number of Asian/Redneck/Casey Anis/etc jokes on these forums (which are ALSO a resource for new/returning players) I have a difficult time believing that I what I wrote was as "oh so over the top terrible" as some are making it out to be.

I still see nothing wrong with having a little fun on a deck list so long as it fulfills the two purposes I laid out before. Spelling errors, poor handwriting and abbreviations also make it more difficult for new players to understand lists but I think we as players do the best we can.

The holodeck thing would be kinda cool. I'm not sure how it would work but it seems interesting.
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Re: Deck Lists

Post by AnakinSolo »

Not putting V next to decklists is REALLY unacceptable btw. Especially if you are running a deck like star destroyers and run something special planned for them.

Then again, so is not putting in your defensive shields on your decklist.
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Re: Deck Lists

Post by Airdog2003 »

MAVanDriel wrote:Not putting V next to decklists is REALLY unacceptable btw. Especially if you are running a deck like star destroyers and run something special planned for them.

Then again, so is not putting in your defensive shields on your decklist.
I'm not sure who did this but just as an fyi, it's possible that a couple of the players didn't actually have defensive shields. There were two guys who showed up and hadn't ever really played before. :???
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Re: Deck Lists

Post by imrahil327 »

Yep, I played against one player with no shields, and there was at least one other.
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Re: Deck Lists

Post by AnakinSolo »

im referring to someone who made the cut to day 2. And was running knowledge and defense on their decklist.
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Re: Deck Lists

Post by puck71 »

MAVanDriel wrote:Not putting V next to decklists is REALLY unacceptable btw. Especially if you are running a deck like star destroyers and run something special planned for them.
I assume you're only talking about cards that have V and non-V versions? Because V-cards with new names like Galen, Cyborg, Jabba's Haven, etc. don't require you to check the "V" box.
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Re: Deck Lists

Post by Kevbozzz »

MAVanDriel wrote:im referring to someone who made the cut to day 2. And was running knowledge and defense on their decklist.
MAVanDriel wrote:Not putting V next to decklists is REALLY unacceptable btw.
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Re: Deck Lists

Post by jimli »

MAVanDriel wrote:im referring to someone who made the cut to day 2. And was running knowledge and defense on their decklist.
Some of the players who made day 2 might not have the many years+ experience of writing decklists as some of the other players, and might not understand the etiquette behind the decklists quite as well. Also perhaps no one expected such close online scrutiny post-event for a "glorified local".

I'm sure the constructive criticism here (and that's not being sarcastic, everyone brought up good points, especially with not listing shields and listing non obvious v-cards) will teach them to do a better job in the future.

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Re: Deck Lists

Post by AnakinSolo »

I think that like more than a few other problems in the game, this would be solved by a clear, relevant, and followed tournament rulebook. The tournament guide desperately needs replacement/updating, and issues like this are a huge part of the problem.
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Re: Deck Lists

Post by Shadow 14 »

Airdog2003 wrote:
3MW0J8 wrote:
...oh wait, there was entire class of 8th graders at nationals who DID write their decklists correctly...it was the adults that didn't.
Bumping cuz there's good stuff in this post and it got buried at the bottom of page 2. Especially telling is the final sentence.
Well, apparently BHerold, Kevin and I have the maturity level of 7th graders when it comes to filling out deck lists. /cry

Honestly, if I really offended anyone by my lack of politcal correctness, I appologize and will try to keep it clean from now on...though given the number of Asian/Redneck/Casey Anis/etc jokes on these forums (which are ALSO a resource for new/returning players) I have a difficult time believing that I what I wrote was as "oh so over the top terrible" as some are making it out to be.

I still see nothing wrong with having a little fun on a deck list so long as it fulfills the two purposes I laid out before. Spelling errors, poor handwriting and abbreviations also make it more difficult for new players to understand lists but I think we as players do the best we can.

The holodeck thing would be kinda cool. I'm not sure how it would work but it seems interesting.
I would prefer you guys to keep doing funny stuff. Strange Herold stickers and funny Shannon/Nelson names for obvious cards are not a problem for me. One thing I love about the game these days, is that good players like the above (or Angelo, Jonny Chu and others for that matter) are nice and fun to play against.

Every-one just try to use clear handwriting and go the extra mile of writing full card names instead of abbreviations.
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Re: Deck Lists

Post by spideyguy0 »

Kevbozzz wrote:
MAVanDriel wrote:Not putting V next to decklists is REALLY unacceptable btw.
I think Aaron might've done this on his Day 2 light side list. Card #20. It's either Jedi Lightsaber non-V, or I'm reading the name of the card wrong. Regardless, if it is a mistake, it's one of those ones where it's obvious that he meant for it to be V.
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Re: Deck Lists

Post by Airdog2003 »

Casey, I think he was referring to Jake's list, but, yeah, it's possible that out of the 144 cards I filled out on my Day 2 decklists, I screwed up and didn't check the "V" box on one of them.
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Re: Deck Lists

Post by AnakinSolo »

yea, I can understand a v card or two missing, but especially in a case where both versions could be logically good, listing the card but not the v is really uncool. Like, I remember that for some event a few years ago, someone started complaining that Socal's mystril list didn't have v next to a couple stunning leaders... but then socal said that was cause they weren't V stunning leaders and socal had indicated their decks properly.

Aaron listed two purposes for decklists. I agree that those are the purposes for decklists, but will say that considering we have (and had at this event) many younglings including those relatively new to the game, that its also important that we make sure that language on decklists is appropriate and reasonably clear.
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Re: Deck Lists

Post by allstarz97 »

Ok, well it appears that both me and Reid our out voted here in terms of just overall viewpoints on decklists so this will be my last post on the subject.

Magic does like three tiers of competitive levels which might be something we want to look into. PT level, competitive, and the ones used to fnm. But as others have said this is not magic so maybe we don't want to do that.

I think I could come up with a 1 page sheet that outlines reasonable expectations and penalties that could be used at championship events. It would cover foils, sleeves, tardiness to matches, slowplay, decklists, and warnings/penalties for cheating.

Scott/Chris PM me if interested I would take the lead on this. I probably won't be back on this thread.

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Re: Deck Lists

Post by imrahil327 »

PM sent.
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Re: Deck Lists

Post by Blarg »

One problem we have is that it is hard to give small penalties for things. You don't want to DQ people, because they won't come back, and you don't want to give game loses, because that is pretty close to eliminating people from making top 8. What about giving small penalties to SOS for decklist errors?

It would be something that is significant enough to make people take a little extra time with their lists, but not big enough that it would make a huge impact.

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Re: Deck Lists

Post by imrahil327 »

Yep, that's my biggest issue is there is very little in between DQ and nothing. SoS penalty is an interesting idea...
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