Light/dark win breakdown

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kcaton
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Light/dark win breakdown

Post by kcaton »

Game 1 -- dark 21, light 9.
Game 2 -- dark 15, light 15.
Game 3 -- dark 19, light 11.
Game 4 -- dark 12, light 18.
Game 5 -- dark 16, light 13.
Game 6 -- dark 15, light 13
Game 7 -- dark 18, light 10.
Game 8 -- dark 14, light 14.

For a total of... (Drumroll please)...
130 dark wins to light's 103.

Discuss.
Last edited by kcaton on August 14th, 2013, 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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agnos
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Re: Light/dark win breakdown

Post by agnos »

Meh... no real surprises there. I would be more interested to see what LS stuff gets a revamp.
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Re: Light/dark win breakdown

Post by RybackStun »

This is just me, but I think with at least just how many of each deck was played on day 2 would make these stats a bit more effective.

As it stands, looking at this, I'd say DS is way powerful right now (which seems to be the general sentiment), but that could be for any number of reasons.

Thanks for putting up those stats though :)

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Re: Light/dark win breakdown

Post by SolaGratia »

Not awefull, if LS was like 85-90 then it would be.

You'll always have a meta that leans more toward 1 side.

9.1 has a chance to beef up LS abit.

My 2 cents.

FYI - looks like the stronger players did better with LS and it's more balanced. Maybe LS takes more skill to win with than DS right now as a whole.

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Re: Light/dark win breakdown

Post by Steviegets112 »

I actually loved my ls deck this weekend and hated my ds deck. Probably just personal perferance and the fact that I havent played a ds deck other than hdv in 5 years but come on seriously at some point someone has to be able to beat it other than myself.

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Re: Light/dark win breakdown

Post by MrPurple »

I think the more relevant rounds are 3, 5, and 7:

Game 1 -- dark 21, light 9.
Game 2 -- dark 15, light 15.
Game 3 -- dark 19, light 11.
Game 4 -- dark 12, light 18.
Game 5 -- dark 16, light 13.
Game 6 -- dark 15, light 13
Game 7 -- dark 18, light 10.
Game 8 -- dark 14, light 14.

As those are the rounds where things are evened up and like record individuals are playing each other. In those rounds we have a 53-34 split. Dark is by far the 'better' side right now.

I am sure more knowledgeable players can speculate as to why this is.
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Re: Light/dark win breakdown

Post by DVD ROTS »

I want to say it has something to do with the Fetts space package, but I can't really prove that. It's the most efficient weapon DS has right now, though. Kind of how the Home One package was really kind of above-and-beyond back when LS was great a few years back.
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Re: Light/dark win breakdown

Post by mryellow »

DVD ROTS wrote:I want to say it has something to do with the Fetts space package, but I can't really prove that. It's the most efficient weapon DS has right now, though. Kind of how the Home One package was really kind of above-and-beyond back when LS was great a few years back.
I think you can look at two of the most popular decks and see: Hoth and Slavers.

Hoth can get out Veers and a Walker, not miss a gun pull or Target the Main Generator, a drain 2 site on an effect that pings and potentially do 6 damage turn 2. All of these cards are from Reserve and the deck has to commit nothing to guaranteeing them. Veers and a site the deck pulls also makes almost every guy and every vehicle in the deck deploy -2, if not more (boosted by Admirals Orders or whatever). Oh yes, and there is retrieval into hand of virtually any card in lost pile. AND, Dark side goes first, so every single light deck has to account for this scenario.

Slavers has a 4/1 start that balloons to 10/3, has global deploy reduction, retrieval, and outrageously big power and destiny for doing very little work.

The chain pulls for dark absolutely blow away anything the light side can muster. I don't know if the best way to balance things is to make light side stronger, redux 2.0 or simply eliminate decks from the meta by decree. But it's nigh impossible to stop these two decks and also stop degenerate one-sided machine decks like Spice TIEs (Hayes was right), SYCFA, plus any number of excellent second-tier dark decks.
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Re: Light/dark win breakdown

Post by allstarz97 »

mryellow wrote:
DVD ROTS wrote:I want to say it has something to do with the Fetts space package, but I can't really prove that. It's the most efficient weapon DS has right now, though. Kind of how the Home One package was really kind of above-and-beyond back when LS was great a few years back.
I think you can look at two of the most popular decks and see: Hoth and Slavers.

Hoth can get out Veers and a Walker, not miss a gun pull or Target the Main Generator, a drain 2 site on an effect that pings and potentially do 6 damage turn 2. All of these cards are from Reserve and the deck has to commit nothing to guaranteeing them. Veers and a site the deck pulls also makes almost every guy and every vehicle in the deck deploy -2, if not more (boosted by Admirals Orders or whatever). Oh yes, and there is retrieval into hand of virtually any card in lost pile. AND, Dark side goes first, so every single light deck has to account for this scenario.

Slavers has a 4/1 start that balloons to 10/3, has global deploy reduction, retrieval, and outrageously big power and destiny for doing very little work.

The chain pulls for dark absolutely blow away anything the light side can muster. I don't know if the best way to balance things is to make light side stronger, redux 2.0 or simply eliminate decks from the meta by decree. But it's nigh impossible to stop these two decks and also stop degenerate one-sided machine decks like Spice TIEs (Hayes was right), SYCFA, plus any number of excellent second-tier dark decks.
bingo, and dark has better stuff to disrupt light early on too... so like an ealry galen can disrupt most of the early light setup. light needs better open ended platforms that have lighting fast starts...

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Re: Light/dark win breakdown

Post by DVD ROTS »

That's a good point, I have a tendency not to play decks that rely on pull chains and deck-specific interactions because I'm insecure about my card-knowledge; I always assume I'm missing something. So I can also make the mistake of overlooking how strong those chains are.
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Re: Light/dark win breakdown

Post by FlorisV »

Whenever I want to build a serious LS deck I usually have at least 2 out of 3 problems:
i.e. how can it ever defeat:
-Walkers
-HD v
-ASM

Granted there are other DS decks that can be a pain for specific LS decks but these 3 have always been the biggest concern for me. Now that Walkers was weakened, that one is a little less of a worry.

Now there have been helper cards against all these decks but they're not strong enough like Redeemed Apprentice although that can still be a nice card because of Helrot hate.
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Re: Light/dark win breakdown

Post by MrPurple »

allstarz97 wrote: bingo, and dark has better stuff to disrupt light early on too... so like an ealry galen can disrupt most of the early light setup. light needs better open ended platforms that have lighting fast starts...
Please be careful of the power creep here! This type of escalation has lead to many of these issues we are facing now. At some point it becomes a repeating cycle; light gets too good so now dark need to be faster, and so on. I think we should consider errata's to a few dark cards before making more lightning fast starts.
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Re: Light/dark win breakdown

Post by gogolen »

MrPurple wrote:
allstarz97 wrote: bingo, and dark has better stuff to disrupt light early on too... so like an ealry galen can disrupt most of the early light setup. light needs better open ended platforms that have lighting fast starts...
Please be careful of the power creep here! This type of escalation has lead to many of these issues we are facing now. At some point it becomes a repeating cycle; light gets too good so now dark need to be faster, and so on. I think we should consider errata's to a few dark cards before making more lightning fast starts.

Which cards would you want to errata?
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Re: Light/dark win breakdown

Post by MrPurple »

Hey Chris,

I am not the man to make that call. There are others who have a better understanding of the card pool and all the interactions. However, I do agree with what Jonny said above, we need to take a look at decks that are setting up fully by second turn and consider trimming them down. IMHO we might want to look at:

Walkers (really just Veers)
Spice Clouds (Very NPE IMO)
Slavers

Or not :-D
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Re: Light/dark win breakdown

Post by JarJarDrinks »

mryellow wrote:But it's nigh impossible to stop these two decks and also stop degenerate one-sided machine decks like Spice TIEs (Hayes was right), SYCFA, plus any number of excellent second-tier dark decks.
I think a great start is to kill spice TIEs once and for all. Not having to gameplan for a deck where there is no good way to interact will certainly only help.
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Re: Light/dark win breakdown

Post by gogolen »

MrPurple wrote:Hey Chris,

I am not the man to make that call. There are others who have a better understanding of the card pool and all the interactions. However, I do agree with what Jonny said above, we need to take a look at decks that are setting up fully by second turn and consider trimming them down. IMHO we might want to look at:

Walkers (really just Veers)
Spice Clouds (Very NPE IMO)
Slavers

Or not :-D
Just curious is all- I think we all have a few ideas about things that might be beneficial, but very few people have the level of understanding of this game to see the far reaching effects.


Idea #1 that I had was a D-shield that deploys on a site and prevents deploy costs from being modified at same and related locations. That has a decent impact on Walkers, and a minor one on Slavers. It would either slow down Slavers setup, or reduce how much they could send after you.

Just a thought that popped into my head reading your post this morning.
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Re: Light/dark win breakdown

Post by The Smoking Gungan »

JarJarDrinks wrote:
mryellow wrote:But it's nigh impossible to stop these two decks and also stop degenerate one-sided machine decks like Spice TIEs (Hayes was right), SYCFA, plus any number of excellent second-tier dark decks.
I think a great start is to kill spice TIEs once and for all. Not having to gameplan for a deck where there is no good way to interact will certainly only help.
Was that really true of chu's worlds build though? He ran one cannon and no talon rolls so it seems like you could have interacted with him easily enough

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Re: Light/dark win breakdown

Post by Hayes »

Am I the only one that doesn't see a problem with slavers? I think it's pace is reasonable, if not a turn faster than most scum decks, and like *any* platform deck it does better if it is left alone to set up. Like, I've played probably 20 games vs variants and between home one and multiple battle destinies at kashyyyk and leia rp on the ground it's easily beatable (granted I typically tested with tigih or communing). The deck can definitely miss pulls As evidenced by the finals, unlike walkers.

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Re: Light/dark win breakdown

Post by stevetotheizz0 »

Slavers doesn't seem to do anything blatantly wrong. It just does a lot of little things that all add up together to make it really good. It's interactive, battles, force drains, etc.

It's the type pf deck that could use a few more meta counters as time goes one, but thats about it. Maybe a better way to cancel scum other than Audience chamber of You've got a lot of guts?
Those counters are fine, but there are decks that can't run the existing meta cards for slavers.

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Re: Light/dark win breakdown

Post by allstarz97 »

Hayes wrote:Am I the only one that doesn't see a problem with slavers? I think it's pace is reasonable, if not a turn faster than most scum decks, and like *any* platform deck it does better if it is left alone to set up. Like, I've played probably 20 games vs variants and between home one and multiple battle destinies at kashyyyk and leia rp on the ground it's easily beatable (granted I typically tested with tigih or communing). The deck can definitely miss pulls As evidenced by the finals, unlike walkers.
The issue is not that it is overpowered, the issue is that it can be overpowered. Meaning most times it will trip over itself, miss pulls, draw low etc. but sometimes there is literally nothing you can do to beat it. Home one with Akbar and leadership? Ok, kill that and lose a guy or two. Multiple Jedi on the ground? Ok I'll just get 40 power.

A Ls character that stops poa destinies would help(Jedi Luke v!!).

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