Reset Event Update

Toronto, ON
Canada
User avatar
spideyguy0
Member
Posts: 7373
Joined: January 1st, 2003, 1:57 pm
Location: New York, NY
Contact:

Re: Reset Event Update

Post by spideyguy0 »

teh_brainiac wrote: casey shouldve lost at least once, charlie didnt have the shield and casey didnt let him proxy it.
Yup, I def lose the 2nd game if Charlie has the shield.


Casey A. - New York, NY
Image Image

User avatar
darkjediknight11
Communications Advocate
Posts: 22850
Joined: April 17th, 2005, 5:26 pm
Location: Chicago
GEMP Username: djk11

Re: Reset Event Update

Post by darkjediknight11 »

Advocate wrote:They were to give away actually.

@swccg
we gave some away. some people still didn't have the new slip for them though.

i thought everyone was under the impression that was acceptable enough to use that day, sorry charlie, i definitely would have ruled that was ok

User avatar
Shadow 14
Retired Advocate
Posts: 9010
Joined: October 30th, 2002, 3:29 am
Location: Hannover, Germany
Contact:

Re: Reset Event Update

Post by Shadow 14 »

jcb213 wrote:
spideyguy0 wrote:My 3rd opponent (Chris) started Civil, played the shield, and placed Lott Dod OOP with Leia.
So Chris, you played the shield plus 2 main deck counters against Casey's DS senate deck and Casey still won, but you think Senate is unplayable because of the counters?
We build the decks overnight, and I didn't even look at my LS until the first game.
I played the main counter Civil Disorder v to slow him down immensely for 2 turns.
Then HE taught me to play my proxy shield (several of us did not have the right shields, I let Tom do the same).
Since I have not watched at any reset stuff so far, I played the shield like a scrub. Casey showed me the interaction, when to play it, and I somewhat had it in the end.

I did not play the second main counter Evcac Control v, and yes, I believe being able to cancel ALL his poly effects every turn would win me every game (and him every game against me if sides are reversed).

Leia is not a major counter imho. I was looking for my smoke screen for the first 2-3 turns. More effective to take out 2 guys and start the pressure at tge battle plains.
Chris (Euro Emperor) Menzel
Hannover - Germany

Image Image

User avatar
spideyguy0
Member
Posts: 7373
Joined: January 1st, 2003, 1:57 pm
Location: New York, NY
Contact:

Re: Reset Event Update

Post by spideyguy0 »

To clarify, I let Chris proxy the shield because I knew that he'd been traveling for a month and the last time he was home the card hadn't even been created yet. I didn't let Charlie proxy it because he had had ample opportunity to get the card. I went out of my way to make sure that I had the card and that my decks were complete, legal, and proxy free. It was a pain in the ass, but that's what you're supposed to do, so I did it. I was a little pissed when, after jumping through hoops to get those 2 cards for myself (including starting a forum thread about it) my opponent asks to proxy them. Additionally, this was more than a friendly local. There were several hundred dollars worth of prizes given out at this event, and a pretty nice top-4 payout. With those stakes, I'm not going to go out of my way to help my opponents just because they're too lazy to find a dark senate shield at an event where everyone knew that dark senate was going to be a popular deck.

I usually don't have a problem letting people proxy cards against me if they're missing a card or two that helps their deck, but I'm not going to let you proxy a card that bullets my deck when you didn't think to include it from the beginning, and I'm not going to let you proxy a card that I went to a lot of trouble to make sure I wasn't proxying when you could've done the same, but chose not to.
Casey A. - New York, NY
Image Image

allstarz97
World Champion
World Champion
Posts: 6351
Joined: April 1st, 2007, 2:15 pm

Re: Reset Event Update

Post by allstarz97 »

Shadow 14 wrote:
allstarz97 wrote:Chris, while your points sort of make sense, you are much too dismissive of how powerful the senators are. R3 fett or toonbuck toora... which one is more powerful? Toonbuck and it's not remotely close. Lott dodd or any other card ever printed by decipher? Lott Dodd and again it's not remotely close.

Think about it this way, ds senate is the most powerful deck every contructed out of decipher made cards, so therefore the vset must include powerful answers to senate, ds senate in particular. However, the first series senate bullets, while very bluntly strong counters to senate, did not stop it's dominance (Leia v, scrambled, for luck v, atromech shortage v, etc). Civil disorder v, evac control and simple tricks eventually stopped senate from being the power that it once was but during a reset it is very important we keep the deck to an underpowered form.
I don't mind powering it down, Justin, but the combination of all 3 cards (shield, Civil Disorder v and Evaculation Control v) destroys it completely. Even you as a player said you would play it with NO political effects and that cannot be right.

In my eyes the senators are more like effects. I know that some are super strong, but are they really stronger than other cards? You say that Lott Dodd is the best card printed by Decipher, but then I argue that it is Keeping The Empire Out Forever. Both need the objective and locations to set up, but KTEOF has no deploy cost (well, maybe more conditions instead), cannot be placed out of play or killed and works EVERY turn.

I know how strong senate is, and that all the comparisons here are a bit off. The question is, would YOU really play Senate with the Chance that your opponent has all 3 counters against you? I certainly wouldn't, and my opponents will certainly play it (they do now, they will just add the shield). The Senator texts are not THAT strong. Hell, they are not even destiny +2 or 3 with Evac Control out.

Make it balanced, make it playable, but don't kill it.
If these cards are in there and Senate is unplayable, what is the next step... revoduxing them again?
Keeping the empire out... isn't nearly as powerful as lott dodd because of what lott dodd does inside of the senate shell (vs what kteof does within the qmc shell). That's the difference. All of the senators and poli effects and the nature of the deck interact so perfectly within itself. That's why you rarely see a senate deck that is successful outside of the shell I came up with 12 years ago. When was the last time you saw a ds senate deck win with 2 poli effects? 7 senators? no matching ships? no epps? no baron? etc. The senate deck is so powerful within itself... lott dodd is perfect in a deck that pulls a drain cancel effect, toonbuck toora is perfect in a deck with epp maul. It goes on and on....

I've lost five games with ds senate in my life (not including the 2007 and 2009 mpc where I played a really weird lists. all five of them really weird things happened to make it so that the senate deck was not interacting within it self to win.

So... long story short, senate does such powerful things it is almost impossible for it to be an ok deck.. it's either going to be one of the top 2-3 decks in the format (or just hands down the best) or it's going to be borderline unplayable because of the hate.

User avatar
Brazen
Member
Posts: 129
Joined: May 20th, 2013, 9:14 pm

Re: Reset Event Update

Post by Brazen »

Hey, Charlie here. Suppose I should defend myself.

While you have every right to deny me the use of that shield, everyone at the tournament was passing around shields, using proxies etc. I let one of my opponents use my shields in our match. I suppose I could have denied him the use of them, but I wouldn't have felt good about winning against an opponent with a broken leg, so to speak.

So sure, when money is involved, integrity takes a backseat.

As for the state of senate in the reset, Evac Control and the shield are sufficient for most decks in my eyes, and in a deck like trm you can find slots for Leia and Civil Disorder pretty easily. Also all three of the cards have utility against other decks; Leia stops Tarkin/Thrawn/Maarek, Evac Control and Civil Disorder for obvious reasons.

At present, I think playing DS senate is an uphill battle.

AnakinSolo
Retired Advocate
Posts: 15934
Joined: December 4th, 2002, 4:03 pm

Re: Reset Event Update

Post by AnakinSolo »

Brazen wrote:Hey, Charlie here. Suppose I should defend myself.

While you have every right to deny me the use of that shield, everyone at the tournament was passing around shields, using proxies etc. I let one of my opponents use my shields in our match. I suppose I could have denied him the use of them, but I wouldn't have felt good about winning against an opponent with a broken leg, so to speak.

So sure, when money is involved, integrity takes a backseat.

As for the state of senate in the reset, Evac Control and the shield are sufficient for most decks in my eyes, and in a deck like trm you can find slots for Leia and Civil Disorder pretty easily. Also all three of the cards have utility against other decks; Leia stops Tarkin/Thrawn/Maarek, Evac Control and Civil Disorder for obvious reasons.

At present, I think playing DS senate is an uphill battle.
You don't need to defend yourself
Well, Bye.

User avatar
Shadow 14
Retired Advocate
Posts: 9010
Joined: October 30th, 2002, 3:29 am
Location: Hannover, Germany
Contact:

Re: Reset Event Update

Post by Shadow 14 »

allstarz97 wrote:
So... long story short, senate does such powerful things it is almost impossible for it to be an ok deck.. it's either going to be one of the top 2-3 decks in the format (or just hands down the best) or it's going to be borderline unplayable because of the hate.
I don't want to throw more stupid examples at you :)
(To be honest, I don't think Keeping The Empire OR Lott Dodd are the strongest cards in the game, and I still think Broken Fett is better than Toonbuck, because he fits in every deck).
We can agree on Senate and the Senators being very strong, and that the synergy of the deck is one of the best in the game.

At least YOU are not trying to sell it as playable with the counters. What you write above is absolutely true. It's either a top deck or unplayable. I just ask you to make it playable!!!
The Walkers deck was also a strong deck, once the NPE (losing 8 Force) was mostly removed.

The reset just killed at least 10 playable decks on each side. Don't start the reboot by killing more of them!!!!
Chris (Euro Emperor) Menzel
Hannover - Germany

Image Image

Walsetmd
LS Region: Bespin
LS Region: Bespin
Posts: 1163
Joined: February 4th, 2006, 7:58 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Reset Event Update

Post by Walsetmd »

imrahil327 wrote: Lists are being required for this event.
Would be cool if someone had a second to point me in the right direction of these lists if they have time.

I'm holding a month reset session for 9th and 10th graders starting ummmm tomorrow (I guess I should have looked into this sooner... oops).
Walseth Top 8 (2015)
RMS FTW MN FTW Bespin FTW
Image

User avatar
imrahil327
Tournament Advocate
Posts: 30705
Joined: July 3rd, 2006, 3:51 am
Location: San Diego

Re: Reset Event Update

Post by imrahil327 »

Walsetmd wrote:
imrahil327 wrote: Lists are being required for this event.
Would be cool if someone had a second to point me in the right direction of these lists if they have time.

I'm holding a month reset session for 9th and 10th graders starting ummmm tomorrow (I guess I should have looked into this sooner... oops).
They haven't been posted yet, James Barnes is being kind enough to type them all out for us.
Image
Hunter wrote:Sebulba's W-L record is like...Always and 1. Tebow's is nowhere near that percentage.
allstarz97, about M:TG wrote:I feel like Michael Jordan playing baseball.

Walsetmd
LS Region: Bespin
LS Region: Bespin
Posts: 1163
Joined: February 4th, 2006, 7:58 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Reset Event Update

Post by Walsetmd »

imrahil327 wrote: They haven't been posted yet, James Barnes is being kind enough to type them all out for us.
Ahhhhh cool. Thanks for the heads up, and thanks to James for doing that.
Walseth Top 8 (2015)
RMS FTW MN FTW Bespin FTW
Image

jcb213
Booster Box
Booster Box
Posts: 1990
Joined: January 14th, 2007, 5:35 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Reset Event Update

Post by jcb213 »

I received the lists today. I should have them up by the end of the week. There will be a link on the main page. I'll post when everything is up and running.
James Barnes

everial
Starter
Starter
Posts: 47
Joined: October 21st, 2014, 11:16 am

Re: Reset Event Update

Post by everial »

jcb213 wrote:I received the lists today. I should have them up by the end of the week. There will be a link on the main page. I'll post when everything is up and running.
(sorry for the partial necro)

Thanks for getting these up - quick question: several of the LS WYS lists include "Boshek, Brash Smuggler" and "Lando with Blaster Rifle" - are these typos?

aermet69
LS Region: Toola
LS Region: Toola
Posts: 5538
Joined: July 14th, 2009, 2:16 pm
Location: Denmark (Toola)
GEMP Username: aermet69

Re: Reset Event Update

Post by aermet69 »

everial wrote:
jcb213 wrote:I received the lists today. I should have them up by the end of the week. There will be a link on the main page. I'll post when everything is up and running.
(sorry for the partial necro)

Thanks for getting these up - quick question: several of the LS WYS lists include "Boshek, Brash Smuggler" and "Lando with Blaster Rifle" - are these typos?
BoShek Brash Smuggler was in the Beta list for the Reset, but was later cut and somewhat replaced by Melas (V). Lando w/Blaster is a normal card from the Cloud City Enhanced packs.
- Casper Jørgensen
aermet69 - Member of Team Copenhagen
"Team Copenhagen never dies. They just go to the bar and respawn."
~UK National Champion 2011. ~Worlds 2012, 10th place. ~German Nationals 2014, Runner-up. ~European Champion 2014. ~Toola Regionals 2015, Runner-Up.

everial
Starter
Starter
Posts: 47
Joined: October 21st, 2014, 11:16 am

Re: Reset Event Update

Post by everial »

aermet69 wrote:
everial wrote:
jcb213 wrote:I received the lists today. I should have them up by the end of the week. There will be a link on the main page. I'll post when everything is up and running.
(sorry for the partial necro)

Thanks for getting these up - quick question: several of the LS WYS lists include "Boshek, Brash Smuggler" and "Lando with Blaster Rifle" - are these typos?
BoShek Brash Smuggler was in the Beta list for the Reset, but was later cut and somewhat replaced by Melas (V). Lando w/Blaster is a normal card from the Cloud City Enhanced packs.
Thanks for the clarifications. Was wondering about Lando because the decklists say "rifle" but the card says "pistol" and wasn't sure if there was another v-card or if they really meant EPP Chewie (or someone else with a rifle).

User avatar
quickdraw3457
Multimedia and Special Projects Advocate
Posts: 25640
Joined: September 3rd, 2003, 5:10 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
GEMP Username: quickdraw

Re: Reset Event Update

Post by quickdraw3457 »

everial wrote:
aermet69 wrote:
everial wrote:
jcb213 wrote:I received the lists today. I should have them up by the end of the week. There will be a link on the main page. I'll post when everything is up and running.
(sorry for the partial necro)

Thanks for getting these up - quick question: several of the LS WYS lists include "Boshek, Brash Smuggler" and "Lando with Blaster Rifle" - are these typos?
BoShek Brash Smuggler was in the Beta list for the Reset, but was later cut and somewhat replaced by Melas (V). Lando w/Blaster is a normal card from the Cloud City Enhanced packs.
Thanks for the clarifications. Was wondering about Lando because the decklists say "rifle" but the card says "pistol" and wasn't sure if there was another v-card or if they really meant EPP Chewie (or someone else with a rifle).
They probably meant Lando, so it was a typo to say rifle instead of pistol. There are better Chewies to use in WYS.
Matt C. - Pittsburgh, PA
Image
Hunter wrote:quickdraw is right

Post Reply

Return to “World Championships 2014 - Aug 21-24”