Luke, SITF & Galen

Blarg
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Luke, SITF & Galen

Post by Blarg »

This sort of mechanic is good for the game because it lets main characters take on vehicles, thus preventing RPS. Obviously this incarnation is a bit strong.



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Re: Luke, SITF & Galen

Post by chriskelly »

Agreed (better on main characters who will be strong anyway than on scrubs who then can be with the the other strong version of a main character... Plus it's Luke. He is strong in the Force...)

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Re: Luke, SITF & Galen

Post by clepine »

I would be okay with the destiny only going to attrition.

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Re: Luke, SITF & Galen

Post by GunganStyle »

If it's going to come back as attrition, then it should have a cost associated with it - like using/losing a force or placing the weapon in the used pile (Galen throws his saber, luke goes crazy on vader and gets his hand chopped off). There's the chance of recovering the saber if Quick Draw doesn't come back, which is nice, or if you're in the clear, the temporary loss of the saber as a cost.
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Re: Luke, SITF & Galen

Post by quickdraw3457 »

I totally disagree these are needed to reduce RPS. The mechanic itself is ok, but not on a main character who has other great text and/or supporting cards. Putting the destiny to attrition on a guy like ponda baba or other scrubs is great, but I don't think it belongs on a main. It is basically an extra BD that gets around anti-BD cards (but is susceptible to Dark Approach and Why Didn't You Tell Me).
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Re: Luke, SITF & Galen

Post by JediJer »

Since this thread isn't following the prescribed method for voting, I'm moving this to the discussion forum. Please create a new voting thread that follows the outlined rules for on deck voting. Thanks.

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Re: Luke, SITF & Galen

Post by quickdraw3457 »

JediJer wrote:Since this thread isn't following the prescribed method for voting, I'm moving this to the discussion forum. Please create a new voting thread that follows the outlined rules for on deck voting. Thanks.
Thanks -- I thought this was discussion when i posted that.

PS why don't we have polls set up instead of silly single posts?
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Re: Luke, SITF & Galen

Post by jcb213 »

quickdraw3457 wrote:I totally disagree these are needed to reduce RPS. The mechanic itself is ok, but not on a main character who has other great text and/or supporting cards. Putting the destiny to attrition on a guy like ponda baba or other scrubs is great, but I don't think it belongs on a main. It is basically an extra BD that gets around anti-BD cards (but is susceptible to Dark Approach and Why Didn't You Tell Me).
x2
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Re: Luke, SITF & Galen

Post by RybackStun »

jcb213 wrote:
quickdraw3457 wrote:I totally disagree these are needed to reduce RPS. The mechanic itself is ok, but not on a main character who has other great text and/or supporting cards. Putting the destiny to attrition on a guy like ponda baba or other scrubs is great, but I don't think it belongs on a main. It is basically an extra BD that gets around anti-BD cards (but is susceptible to Dark Approach and Why Didn't You Tell Me).
x2
x3

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Re: Luke, SITF & Galen

Post by GunganStyle »

RybackStun wrote:
jcb213 wrote:
quickdraw3457 wrote:I totally disagree these are needed to reduce RPS. The mechanic itself is ok, but not on a main character who has other great text and/or supporting cards. Putting the destiny to attrition on a guy like ponda baba or other scrubs is great, but I don't think it belongs on a main. It is basically an extra BD that gets around anti-BD cards (but is susceptible to Dark Approach and Why Didn't You Tell Me).
x2
x3
x4
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Re: Luke, SITF & Galen

Post by Blarg »

Because of the way Decipher costed cards, the fundamental limit on main characters is the persona. At some point (which we have done), we reach a critical mass of main personas at which decks no longer have to play very many support characters. So if you want a deck involving mains to have access to this sort of text, it has to show up on a main character.

See, for example, how DS mains decks tend to only play something like 3-4 support characters and LS mains basically play Corran, Ackbar, Lando, maybe Leia. There's very little room for random utility characters.

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Re: Luke, SITF & Galen

Post by jcb213 »

Blarg wrote:Because of the way Decipher costed cards, the fundamental limit on main characters is the persona. At some point (which we have done), we reach a critical mass of main personas at which decks no longer have to play very many support characters. So if you want a deck involving mains to have access to this sort of text, it has to show up on a main character.

See, for example, how DS mains decks tend to only play something like 3-4 support characters and LS mains basically play Corran, Ackbar, Lando, maybe Leia. There's very little room for random utility characters.
The mains deck will always have access to whatever support characters exist, they just need to decide whether it is worth it to play them. If the mechanic on a support character is necessary in a mains deck, then that deck should find room to play that support character.
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Re: Luke, SITF & Galen

Post by Blarg »

jcb213 wrote:
Blarg wrote:Because of the way Decipher costed cards, the fundamental limit on main characters is the persona. At some point (which we have done), we reach a critical mass of main personas at which decks no longer have to play very many support characters. So if you want a deck involving mains to have access to this sort of text, it has to show up on a main character.

See, for example, how DS mains decks tend to only play something like 3-4 support characters and LS mains basically play Corran, Ackbar, Lando, maybe Leia. There's very little room for random utility characters.
The mains deck will always have access to whatever support characters exist, they just need to decide whether it is worth it to play them. If the mechanic on a support character is necessary in a mains deck, then that deck should find room to play that support character.
That's not how things work though. If it was, then there would be no such thing as RPS. Nothing is ever mandatory, it just helps in certain matchups and hinders in others.

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Re: Luke, SITF & Galen

Post by quickdraw3457 »

Blarg wrote:
jcb213 wrote:
Blarg wrote:Because of the way Decipher costed cards, the fundamental limit on main characters is the persona. At some point (which we have done), we reach a critical mass of main personas at which decks no longer have to play very many support characters. So if you want a deck involving mains to have access to this sort of text, it has to show up on a main character.

See, for example, how DS mains decks tend to only play something like 3-4 support characters and LS mains basically play Corran, Ackbar, Lando, maybe Leia. There's very little room for random utility characters.
The mains deck will always have access to whatever support characters exist, they just need to decide whether it is worth it to play them. If the mechanic on a support character is necessary in a mains deck, then that deck should find room to play that support character.
That's not how things work though. If it was, then there would be no such thing as RPS.
And that is why we have a reset now. To get the card pool to a manageable level, and to hopefully design a more cohesive meta in the future.
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Re: Luke, SITF & Galen

Post by JediJer »

quickdraw3457 wrote:PS why don't we have polls set up instead of silly single posts?
I think because Shewski wanted to be able to easily look at the index page and see how many posts there were for a card, rather than having to look into every thread to see the poll results.

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Re: Luke, SITF & Galen

Post by jcb213 »

Blarg wrote:
jcb213 wrote:
Blarg wrote:Because of the way Decipher costed cards, the fundamental limit on main characters is the persona. At some point (which we have done), we reach a critical mass of main personas at which decks no longer have to play very many support characters. So if you want a deck involving mains to have access to this sort of text, it has to show up on a main character.

See, for example, how DS mains decks tend to only play something like 3-4 support characters and LS mains basically play Corran, Ackbar, Lando, maybe Leia. There's very little room for random utility characters.
The mains deck will always have access to whatever support characters exist, they just need to decide whether it is worth it to play them. If the mechanic on a support character is necessary in a mains deck, then that deck should find room to play that support character.
That's not how things work though. If it was, then there would be no such thing as RPS. Nothing is ever mandatory, it just helps in certain matchups and hinders in others.
But mains decks already do this by playing Corran Horn. Do we also need to print a main that breaks cover of undercover spies too in order to help prevent RPS?
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Re: Luke, SITF & Galen

Post by Blarg »

quickdraw3457 wrote:And that is why we have a reset now. To get the card pool to a manageable level, and to hopefully design a more cohesive meta in the future.
I don't see how this is going to fix the problem. We're already going to be saturated with mains in the first virtual set when Mace comes back. We've already got vehicles. Mains are already undercosted. We've also lost Quick Draw now.

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Re: Luke, SITF & Galen

Post by JediJer »

I do like the PoA mechanic but would prefer it be on support characters instead of mains.

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Re: Luke, SITF & Galen

Post by Blarg »

jcb213 wrote:But mains decks already do this by playing Corran Horn. Do we also need to print a main that breaks cover of undercover spies too in order to help prevent RPS?
There's only so many Corran-like characters that they can play.

I've played with and against a ton of AT-ATs. Luke, SitF always made the games much more even and much more fun.

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Re: Luke, SITF & Galen

Post by quickdraw3457 »

Blarg wrote:
jcb213 wrote:But mains decks already do this by playing Corran Horn. Do we also need to print a main that breaks cover of undercover spies too in order to help prevent RPS?
There's only so many Corran-like characters that they can play.

I've played with and against a ton of AT-ATs. Luke, SitF always made the games much more even and much more fun.
That's not what he's asking though -- Corran is in some ways a mains helper vs UC spies. Theoretical PoA support character is a mains helper vs UC spies. If PoA should be on mains, why shouldn't the UC spy protection?

I think decks should be flexible enough for you to evaluate what you need and adjust. Making more mains doesn't mean you won't have room, you'll just have to decide which is more important, another main or a support character that patches a weakness? As long as power creep is kept in check and you don't have decks like HDv that require you to run all mains to compete with, you should have room for more support cards.

Also, AT-ATs are not the same as IOv. IOv was ridiculous, most walker decks now will probably only consist of 2-3 AT-ATs, and none of them will be pullable from the start. Like I said, play mech failure if you're worried. That card was still making it into decks pre-reset, I'm sure there's room for it now if you need it.
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