Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

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stephengascrub
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Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by stephengascrub »

This is probably a "no duh" type thing (but I saw it posted in on deck voting... :noshake: ), but I really hope we do NOT bring back Atrocity/Propaganda v as immediate or pullable effects that cancel force drains. The cards went in 99% of decks and essentially slowed down games, which are bad.

Now if they are redone as something totally different, I'd be okay with that.


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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by AnakinSolo »

I loved the combo version, especially for dark side. I always felt worried when I used it, because I thought it might be better used later.

No brainer = lame play

Super high risky/questionable decision making = awesome play
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by stephengascrub »

I'd be a lot more okay with the combo versions, Maven.
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by AnakinSolo »

Cool. For clarity, I did object to the non-combo versions
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by RybackStun »

+1

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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by dorshe1 »

I'd like to see the cards back as SOMETHING decent since they got to be so expensive. That way people who bought them can still try to fit them into reset format decks. But yeah, the damage mitigation probably won't be the new theme.

Thanks!
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by gogolen »

cards like this may not necessarily be on the "on deck" list because they need to be redesigned, but they are definitely on a separate list for D&D to target for the first few sets because of the increased value caused by their virtualization. There are a handful of cards that fall into that category and Shewski is aware of them.


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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by Hayes »

gogolen wrote:cards like this may not necessarily be on the "on deck" list because they need to be redesigned, but they are definitely on a separate list for D&D to target for the first few sets because of the increased value caused by their virtualization. There are a handful of cards that fall into that category and Shewski is aware of them.


Fret not dear friends, your investment was not in vain.
Hence the "Something new!" in parentheses after each of the cards on the On Deck list.

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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by Darkness »

gogolen wrote:cards like this may not necessarily be on the "on deck" list because they need to be redesigned, but they are definitely on a separate list for D&D to target for the first few sets because of the increased value caused by their virtualization. There are a handful of cards that fall into that category and Shewski is aware of them.


Fret not dear friends, your investment was not in vain.
Just watch as they're virtualized into something utterly useless just to spite us :fist:
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by agnos »

I don't think that there was any problem with the cards whatsoever with the exception of two things: 1. working with the non-v versions (which got fixed) and 2. not being unique. If they're going to fix these things, I'd be a fan.
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by Darkness »

agnos wrote:I don't think that there was any problem with the cards whatsoever with the exception of two things: 1. working with the non-v versions (which got fixed) and 2. not being unique. If they're going to fix these things, I'd be a fan.
Did you not have a problem with them being in nearly all decks? Serious question.
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by JarJarDrinks »

Darkness wrote:Did you not have a problem with them being in nearly all decks? Serious question.
Do you have a problem w/ houjix or barrier being in nearly all decks?
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by mikefrench »

i think for a character card, if that specific persona is in every (or nearly every) deck, that is a red flag. it's fine that some are just better than others (personas), but they shouldn't be so dominant that it's the only option at all.
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by quickdraw3457 »

JarJarDrinks wrote:
Darkness wrote:Did you not have a problem with them being in nearly all decks? Serious question.
Do you have a problem w/ houjix or barrier being in nearly all decks?
Houjix/barrier have been around since the game was created. Everything created in this game was made knowing that these exist. They are the game. Atrocity/Propaganda's damage reducing text came in about 15 years in or so, and every piece of direct damage made before them did not account for their existence. They threw the wrench in a lot of stuff, all because the PC got direct damage happy with things like Walkers. Control the DD stuff like walkers, and we can live without these horrible cards.

These cards should definitely come back as something useful though, and I'm sure that will happen based on what the PC has said about protecting investments made.
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by JarJarDrinks »

quickdraw3457 wrote:Houjix/barrier have been around since the game was created. Everything created in this game was made knowing that these exist.
Even if this statement wasn't wrong, it wouldn't matter.

Every new card that comes out would have the problem of being a card that wasn't known about when everything else was created. A terrible argument.

But it doesn't really matter cause u immediately proved yourself wrong since many cards were made w/o knowing about houjix.
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October 2nd, 2019, 12:12 pm
I would be all for a reset if I get to be on the reset team
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by gogolen »

agnos wrote:I don't think that there was any problem with the cards whatsoever with the exception of two things: 1. working with the non-v versions (which got fixed) and 2. not being unique. If they're going to fix these things, I'd be a fan.

If it wasn't pullable and wasn't destiny 6, then maybe it wouldn't be as bad either.
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by quickdraw3457 »

JarJarDrinks wrote:
quickdraw3457 wrote:Houjix/barrier have been around since the game was created. Everything created in this game was made knowing that these exist.
Even if this statement wasn't wrong, it wouldn't matter.

Every new card that comes out would have the problem of being a card that wasn't known about when everything else was created. A terrible argument.

But it doesn't really matter cause u immediately proved yourself wrong since many cards were made w/o knowing about houjix.
What was the difference between premiere and ANH? 3 months? like 1 major tournament? Don't be obtuse.

When a new card is made that obliterates the entire concept of tons of cards made before it, it's bad design.
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by JarJarDrinks »

quickdraw3457 wrote:They threw the wrench in a lot of stuff, all because the PC got direct damage happy with things like Walkers. Control the DD stuff like walkers, and we can live without these horrible cards.
Walkers? I can't remember the last time an Atrocity stuck against walkers. Direct Damage decks play multiples of control so a good majority of the time Atrocity doesn't do much.

The part of it that I felt was good for the meta is the initial reduction, not the DD part. Cause I feel like it helps decks that need time to set up from super aggresive decks. A turn 1 vader w/ saber w/ HD against QMC is gonna put the game out of rich real fast if the LS player doesn't have some early luck. If u can negate the first drain...ur still probably in a hole but u @ least have a better chance.

So basically: bring back the combo versions so we can fix this AND the maintenance issue w/ one shot.
dx_37 wrote:
October 2nd, 2019, 12:12 pm
I would be all for a reset if I get to be on the reset team
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by JarJarDrinks »

quickdraw3457 wrote:When a new card is made that obliterates the entire concept of tons of cards made before it, it's bad design.
I assume you think Menace Fades is bad design then?
dx_37 wrote:
October 2nd, 2019, 12:12 pm
I would be all for a reset if I get to be on the reset team
"Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking."
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by quickdraw3457 »

JarJarDrinks wrote:
quickdraw3457 wrote:When a new card is made that obliterates the entire concept of tons of cards made before it, it's bad design.
I assume you think Menace Fades is bad design then?
No, it's properly costed. It's not a 6 destiny that can come down at any time and reduce damage. You actually have to go to 2 BGs to satisfy it.
JarJarDrinks wrote:
quickdraw3457 wrote:They threw the wrench in a lot of stuff, all because the PC got direct damage happy with things like Walkers. Control the DD stuff like walkers, and we can live without these horrible cards.
Walkers? I can't remember the last time an Atrocity stuck against walkers. Direct Damage decks play multiples of control so a good majority of the time Atrocity doesn't do much.

The part of it that I felt was good for the meta is the initial reduction, not the DD part. Cause I feel like it helps decks that need time to set up from super aggresive decks. A turn 1 vader w/ saber w/ HD against QMC is gonna put the game out of rich real fast if the LS player doesn't have some early luck. If u can negate the first drain...ur still probably in a hole but u @ least have a better chance.

So basically: bring back the combo versions so we can fix this AND the maintenance issue w/ one shot.
It doesn't matter if it sticks vs walkers, people had to pack it to reduce some damage. Then it hits any other DD that might have existed, and that stuff becomes basically worthless.

Playing it against an early drain is AWFUL for the game. If a deck can devote all of its first or 2nd turn resources to setting up a 2-3 drain early on, they're sacrificing some other part of their setup -- drawing a bigger hand, saving force. To negate that completely destroys aggro decks and slows the game to a crawl.

Propaganda was big when the 2/2 deck was around, because that could reliably set up a drain of 3 on turn 1 (after turn 0). That led to propaganda/protofail being played more, which hurt other fast decks. All of those cards are just bad for the game.
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