Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Blarg
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by Blarg »

Atrocity changes a drain of 3 into a drain of 2. That's pretty far from negating it completely.



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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by macgyver221 »

By allowing ubiquitous access to these cards, you negate the incentive to hit the table early.

The things about decks like that is that they sacrifice late game options for early game advantage. It actually sets up a pretty tactical game- survive the initial onslaught and then mop up the rest. The value of certain pieces changes drastically and you have to adopt your strategy to account for it.

There's a huge difference between turn 2 drain 2-3 and walkers old turn 2 near double digit damage.

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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by JarJarDrinks »

quickdraw3457 wrote:
JarJarDrinks wrote:
quickdraw3457 wrote:When a new card is made that obliterates the entire concept of tons of cards made before it, it's bad design.
I assume you think Menace Fades is bad design then?
No, it's properly costed. It's not a 6 destiny that can come down at any time and reduce damage. You actually have to go to 2 BGs to satisfy it.
So first it's cause cards made before they came out "didn't account for their existence".

After I prove that wrong, you change your reasoning to "When a new card is made that obliterates the entire concept of tons of cards made before it, it's bad design."

So I then prove that wrong by mentioning menace fades you change it again. all of a sudden obliterating entire concepts of tons of cards doesn't matter as long as it's "properly costed".


So now I'll prove that wrong and see what you come up with:

The reason that menace fades has such a steep "cost" is because it obliterates WAY more things than atrocity does.

Think about how much more damage mfades will save over the course of the game.

Of course atrocity has no conditions to meet. It saves you from just 1 drain and then maybe saves you some damage against the very few decks that deal control phase DD. AND it has a commonly played counter.
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by quickdraw3457 »

JarJarDrinks wrote:
quickdraw3457 wrote:
JarJarDrinks wrote:
quickdraw3457 wrote:When a new card is made that obliterates the entire concept of tons of cards made before it, it's bad design.
I assume you think Menace Fades is bad design then?
No, it's properly costed. It's not a 6 destiny that can come down at any time and reduce damage. You actually have to go to 2 BGs to satisfy it.
So first it's cause cards made before they came out "didn't account for their existence".

After I prove that wrong, you change your reasoning to "When a new card is made that obliterates the entire concept of tons of cards made before it, it's bad design."

So I then prove that wrong by mentioning menace fades you change it again. all of a sudden obliterating entire concepts of tons of cards doesn't matter as long as it's "properly costed".


So now I'll prove that wrong and see what you come up with:

The reason that menace fades has such a steep "cost" is because it obliterates WAY more things than atrocity does.

Think about how much more damage mfades will save over the course of the game.

Of course atrocity has no conditions to meet. It saves you from just 1 drain and then maybe saves you some damage against the very few decks that deal control phase DD. AND it has a commonly played counter.
:roll:

Whatever. You're not proving anything. I never compared which one saves more. It's about early pressure being neutered, low opportunity cost to playing atrocity, and how it makes most direct damage strategies no longer viable.

Who cares if it has a counter, lots of decks run incon barriers to cancel control for that reason. And the biggest difference is atrocity can be 100% guaranteed in your hand turn 1, while most decks will have to dig for control (especially if the pullers are no longer around).

I bet a majority of people would much rather see a new function for these cards that doesn't slow the game down to a crawl.
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by JarJarDrinks »

quickdraw3457 wrote:Whatever. You're not proving anything. I never compared which one saves more. It's about early pressure being neutered, low opportunity cost to playing atrocity, and how it makes most direct damage strategies no longer viable.
Ok fine, if that's your argument then I'll focus on that. But YOU brought up the fact that cards "didn't account for their existence" and how it "obliterates the entire concept of tons of cards made before it". As long as ur agreeing that those reasons dont mean * I'll move on.

So explain how it "makes most direct damage strategies no longer viable". Not just theory crafting. Tell me specifically what decks in legacy aren't viable because of the existence of atrocity.

Although like I said, that part of it I think would be fine to ditch. It's the soaking up of an early drain that helps make decks that set up more viable.


quickdraw3457 wrote:I bet a majority of people would much rather see a new function for these cards that doesn't slow the game down to a crawl.
Perhaps they do want to see a new function, but that doesn't change any of what I said.

And "slowing the game down to a crawl" is an absolutely hyperbolic pile of BS. The majority of the time, it saves ONE force. Vs some decks, it saves more. And occasionally it saves none.

Unless you mean it slows games down because it increases the chances of someone topdecking a key card (Like EBO or an important location) early causing ur opponent to scoop?
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October 2nd, 2019, 12:12 pm
I would be all for a reset if I get to be on the reset team
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"How you play the game is important. But for me, it's about if you win or lose."
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by Hunter »

JarJarDrinks wrote:bring back the combo versions so we can fix this AND the maintenance issue w/ one shot.
Yes, please.

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stevetotheizz0
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by stevetotheizz0 »

These cards absolutely need to come back because:

-Every other card ever played is on the on Deck Voting.

-Its destiny 6.

-It makes it so I dont have to lose force.

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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by mikefrench »

i'm ambivalent on these cards. they probably were too strong, the atrocity bomb was dumb (i think it was already gone tho, right?), their destiny was very high, but they didn't do something that was fundamentally unfair, and in some cases were very helpful to reign in some very quick direct damage decks like walkers (sure, they could play control, but then they had to have it).
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Re: Don't Bring Back Atrocity/Propaganda

Post by SolaGratia »

Hayes wrote:
gogolen wrote:cards like this may not necessarily be on the "on deck" list because they need to be redesigned, but they are definitely on a separate list for D&D to target for the first few sets because of the increased value caused by their virtualization. There are a handful of cards that fall into that category and Shewski is aware of them.


Fret not dear friends, your investment was not in vain.
Hence the "Something new!" in parentheses after each of the cards on the On Deck list.
This is what I am interested along with LTWWv.

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