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jcb213
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Sabotage

Post by jcb213 »

Target an opponent's device or non-superlaser weapon card. Draw destiny. Target lost if destiny -X < target's destiny number, where X = the number of your spies on table. OR Cancel the targeting of a Permanent Weapon weapon at same site as your spy.
I posted this on the voting thread suggesting we bring it back but drop the targeting of a device and a lot of people have said to just bring it back exactly as-is. I'm curious why people think we need a card to target DS devices.

It would definitely be good to be able to blow up Laser Cannon Battery, TIE Cannons, and Tank Guns, and the permanent weapon text is fine too, but why do we need to hate on devices? Devices are already pretty bad and not played, so why do they need a counter? Isn't it good to have Restraining Bolt as a reliable way to counter Threepio WHPS? Why do we need a card that can blow up the Carbonite Chamber Console?


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Re: Sabotage

Post by Shewski »

TBH the main reason this didn't make the set was the device hate for something like Carbon Chamber Testing. Since we had to design around it a few times, it got the axe. Weapon hate I think is OK.
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Re: Sabotage

Post by Shadow 13 »

i can't think of a device that should be destroyable with this. LS has all the broken devices.

could just say target weapon or tractor beam. that's really all it needs to target. unless we make vader devices =p
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Re: Sabotage

Post by JarJarDrinks »

jcb213 wrote:I'm curious why people think we need a card to target DS devices.
I don't think it needs to but I dont really care if it does.
jcb213 wrote:It would definitely be good to be able to blow up Laser Cannon Battery, TIE Cannons, and Tank Guns
More than just good IMO. Very much needed since these cards are all such blowouts w/ no other good counters for em.
jcb213 wrote:and the permanent weapon text is fine too
Similiar to the device part. I don't care too much about this text but it is kind of a cool secondary function I think.
jcb213 wrote:but why do we need to hate on devices? Devices are already pretty bad and not played, so why do they need a counter?
Because the only way this makes it into the base set is as is and I think the weapon part is important enough where we need to get it in the game ASAP.
jcb213 wrote:Isn't it good to have Restraining Bolt as a reliable way to counter Threepio WHPS?
No I don't think that's good @ all.
jcb213 wrote:Why do we need a card that can blow up the Carbonite Chamber Console?
does it really matter? Carbon freezing isn't exactly playable right now. It can always be helped @ some point in the future.
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Re: Sabotage

Post by gogolen »

This card is just another example of LS have a superior version than the DS mirror (Overload).


I don't think this card is base set material, but with some minor revisions it could come back in an early set. Destiny 5 is also overkill.
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Re: Sabotage

Post by JarJarDrinks »

gogolen wrote:This card is just another example of LS have a superior version than the DS mirror (Overload).
:shock: Pretty please give me a LS interrupt that can blow up EPPs.
dx_37 wrote:
October 2nd, 2019, 12:12 pm
I would be all for a reset if I get to be on the reset team
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Re: Sabotage

Post by gogolen »

JarJarDrinks wrote:
gogolen wrote:This card is just another example of LS have a superior version than the DS mirror (Overload).
:shock: Pretty please give me a LS interrupt that can blow up EPPs.

Yeah, cause using Overload and topdecking a 0 happens all the time
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Re: Sabotage

Post by Aglets »

gogolen wrote:
JarJarDrinks wrote:
gogolen wrote:This card is just another example of LS have a superior version than the DS mirror (Overload).
:shock: Pretty please give me a LS interrupt that can blow up EPPs.

Yeah, cause using Overload and topdecking a 0 happens all the time
I think I side with Gogolen on this one. Back in the legacy days I think Sabotage (V) saw a lot more play than Overload.

I think the only decks that really used Overload at all were decks that played Domination (V) and Ozzel. Did IG maybe? I can't recall.
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Re: Sabotage

Post by JarJarDrinks »

Aglets wrote:
gogolen wrote:
JarJarDrinks wrote:
gogolen wrote:This card is just another example of LS have a superior version than the DS mirror (Overload).
:shock: Pretty please give me a LS interrupt that can blow up EPPs.

Yeah, cause using Overload and topdecking a 0 happens all the time
I think I side with Gogolen on this one. Back in the legacy days I think Sabotage (V) saw a lot more play than Overload.

I think the only decks that really used Overload at all were decks that played Domination (V) and Ozzel. Did IG maybe? I can't recall.
IG and AoBS did alot back in the Lando(v) days.

I've played it in rops here n there since u generally flip before getting out all ur sites and have a few ways to get them on top.

I think the cards a pretty close to even but sabatoge has less of a NPE factor.
dx_37 wrote:
October 2nd, 2019, 12:12 pm
I would be all for a reset if I get to be on the reset team
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Re: Sabotage

Post by gogolen »

Sabotage may not be able to cause that 1/1000 chance of making the character go lost, but it's success rate of destroying weapons is insanely higher because of the spy text.

For example-Boussh is undercover and Corran & Tycho are piloting ships. You can auto-destroy all space weapons since you are subtracting 3 from whatever you draw, and you have a good chance at destroying the lightsaber Vader is holding. And if they have an EPP at the site instead and play Sniper to get rid of Boussh, well you can cancel that too.

And as a kicker, LS is destiny 5 but DS is only a 4.


Sabotage is much better than Overload IMO
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Re: Sabotage

Post by qasur »

And that's just the weapon text. The secondary hate on Devices was not needed, especially DS Devices.

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Re: Sabotage

Post by Hunter »

gogolen wrote:
JarJarDrinks wrote:
gogolen wrote:This card is just another example of LS have a superior version than the DS mirror (Overload).
:shock: Pretty please give me a LS interrupt that can blow up EPPs.
Yeah, cause using Overload and topdecking a 0 happens all the time
You don't topdeck, dufus. You track, or put an Ozzel or a site back with Janus. That's why I would sometimes play 2 copies of Ozzel in ISB, or use an extra site in a ROPs deck, with 2 copies of Overload.

Know how many decks I ever used 2 copies of Sabotage(v) in? ZERO. Because you can't abuse Sabotage(v) the way you can abuse Overload.

Sabotage(v) is the card that Overload always SHOULD have been. And if I could, I would Errata Overload to be an exact mirror of Sabotage(v). Decipher didn't get it quite right, with Overload. But Sabotage(v) is PERFECTION.

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Re: Sabotage

Post by mikefrench »

the thing is, i feel like sabotage v is a great card when you look at it without context. but when you look at the overall metagame, it really makes weapons (esp starship weapons) a little too weak. and yet without it, starship weapons might be a little too strong. i don't think we've found the correct level yet, and i think something close to sabotage v is where that is.

to me, the example is wys. wys has the best space fleet of any ls deck that i know of. but it should have SOME weakness, and that weakness is baron/cannons. with sabotage v, that weakness is basically completely negated. i think that sucks. it's ok if that weakness was lessened, but not just blown out, and that's what it feels like sabotage v does.

i like that overload kills epps btw, that's always seemed like a very cool thing for a swccg card to do. reward tracking/skill and gives ds some character removal, which it feels like it should have.
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Re: Sabotage

Post by Hunter »

And after what I said about abusing Overload in ISB and ROPs, don't even get me started on Brangus. OMG, I killed somebody's whole friggin' deck with Overload before, when I was playing Brangus.
mikefrench wrote:i like that overload kills epps btw
Mike French, you are terrible.

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Re: Sabotage

Post by mikefrench »

i'm sure it was abusive at some points in the past, but i thought brangus was awesome. maybe it was too much manip, but i love manip decks. they always seemed skill-intensive and tracking-intensive.

dont you hate epps? surely you'd love a card that killed them? =)

i will totally admit that overload is likely a card that would've never seen print after ds2 or so, when decipher knew how to make cards "correctly". much like lat damage, sense/alter, etc
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Re: Sabotage

Post by Hunter »

mikefrench wrote:dont you hate epps? surely you'd love a card that killed them? =)
Overload doesn't just kill EPPs though. It kills any character or starship with a weapon on it.

I hate EPPs, yeah. But I don't hate all characters and all starships.

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Re: Sabotage

Post by mikefrench »

heh that seems reasonable.
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