Instant non-card feedback!

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darkjediknight11
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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by darkjediknight11 »

i think we just need to push Day 1 to start earlier on Friday, and let anyone play.



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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by Darkness »

My humble opinions on the subject...

1). It's definitely ridiculous to have people travel to worlds and not get to play... so let's just clear that up and say everyone gets in to Day 2 (which should probably be renamed to the Main Event or something). Anyone without a bye may make a $20 donation in addition to the normal cost of entry to play.

2). I believe increasing the costs of the large events to be a good thing. Most people travel, and that's by far the biggest cost. Adding an extra $10 to the attendance price wouldn't make most people blink.

3). If revenue is an issue, I recommend a classic - gambling! Throw an Emp Palpatine / LSJK in a $5 raffle and see how many tickets you can sell for the drawing. Maybe have it signed by the winner of the tournament. *assuming this is legal where the event is held

4). Make the side events like satellite tournaments for poker. The winner receives a free entry into the main event. 1 ticket is available for every $60 in entry fees collected for example.
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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by JarJarDrinks »

Darkness wrote:3). If revenue is an issue, I recommend a classic - gambling! Throw an Emp Palpatine / LSJK in a $5 raffle and see how many tickets you can sell for the drawing. Maybe have it signed by the winner of the tournament. *assuming this is legal where the event is held
If nothing else, this seems like a solid idea and I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.
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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

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Darkness wrote:My humble opinions on the subject...

1). It's definitely ridiculous to have people travel to worlds and not get to play... so let's just clear that up and say everyone gets in to Day 2 (which should probably be renamed to the Main Event or something). Anyone without a bye may make a $20 donation in addition to the normal cost of entry to play.

2). I believe increasing the costs of the large events to be a good thing. Most people travel, and that's by far the biggest cost. Adding an extra $10 to the attendance price wouldn't make most people blink.

3). If revenue is an issue, I recommend a classic - gambling! Throw an Emp Palpatine / LSJK in a $5 raffle and see how many tickets you can sell for the drawing. Maybe have it signed by the winner of the tournament. *assuming this is legal where the event is held

4). Make the side events like satellite tournaments for poker. The winner receives a free entry into the main event. 1 ticket is available for every $60 in entry fees collected for example.

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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by puck71 »

Darkness wrote:1). It's definitely ridiculous to have people travel to worlds and not get to play... so let's just clear that up and say everyone gets in to Day 2 (which should probably be renamed to the Main Event or something). Anyone without a bye may make a $20 donation in addition to the normal cost of entry to play.
This was mentioned before the event, and I think it's a great idea. It still incentivizes getting a bye (essentially makes each bye into a mini travel voucher) but still lets everyone play, and doesn't make people waste time running events that are only dreamed up to give out byes.
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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by stevetotheizz0 »

puck71 wrote:
Darkness wrote: and doesn't make people waste time running events that are only dreamed up to give out byes.

Tricking people into playing more star wars cards is never a waste of time.


We all know that the byes aren't real. But its fun to pretend. Everyone gets caught up in handing them down, remembering how they got one, or playing in a breakfast cube last minute. It's basically the Santa Claus that we make up for new players, and it works as a fun part of the tournament season that builds up to worlds. Part of keeping the game alive is keeping up the pretense.

The current structure probably attracts more people than it deters.


However, Day 1 should be a big thing to preview the weekend. I think having it earlier and making it open to all would help. Making it an auto-qualifier also takes out all the uncertainty that some people might complain about.

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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by Shadow 14 »

I am not a big fan of the bye system either. Also, I understand that people call them "not real", because they are handed down.

On the other hand... isn't a large part of Worlds prize money collected by running these qualifier events?
Financially, I could never have handled Euro Worlds without qualifier events, and I assume you guys need the same.
These days we give out much less prize support/cash prizes and only use the money from Europeans (and some of the smaller events I'm involved in).

Just saying, although I think that every-one who wants to play day 2, should be able to do so (because it's simple such a cool event), I'm not sure if the PC can do without the qualifiers.
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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

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Shadow 14 wrote: On the other hand... isn't a large part of Worlds prize money collected by running these qualifier events?
...
I'm not sure if the PC can do without the qualifiers.
I don't know for sure, but my guess is that the number of states and regionals, and attendance at state and regional events won't be all that affected if there were no byes up for grabs.

In my experience, which admittedly in the last decade or so has been limited to Minnesota, most people don't go to states or regionals because they need to win the bye. That might be because they don't plan on going to worlds, or because they have no realistic shot at getting the bye, or in the case of at least one person this year, because they have byes up the wazoo but still want to play. :-)

So it seems to me that even without a bye up for grabs, people will still want to play in state and regional events, so they will still be held, and so however the PC uses those events to subsidize worlds, they can continue to do so.

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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by imrahil327 »

jimli wrote:
Shadow 14 wrote: On the other hand... isn't a large part of Worlds prize money collected by running these qualifier events?
...
I'm not sure if the PC can do without the qualifiers.
I don't know for sure, but my guess is that the number of states and regionals, and attendance at state and regional events won't be all that affected if there were no byes up for grabs.

In my experience, which admittedly in the last decade or so has been limited to Minnesota, most people don't go to states or regionals because they need to win the bye. That might be because they don't plan on going to worlds, or because they have no realistic shot at getting the bye, or in the case of at least one person this year, because they have byes up the wazoo but still want to play. :-)

So it seems to me that even without a bye up for grabs, people will still want to play in state and regional events, so they will still be held, and so however the PC uses those events to subsidize worlds, they can continue to do so.
That is not my experience, but it would be interesting to hear from others on the matter.
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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by arebelspy »

I definitely attended 3 regionals in different states because of the travel voucher--it cost me more to get there than the voucher, but knowing I could recoup most of my cost if I won made it worth going to have fun playing swccg, cause it made it cheap to do so.

(Not directly related to byes, I realize, but tangentially so.)

Did anyone else win more than one travel voucher, or play in more than one regional (so potentially could have done so)?

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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

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arebelspy wrote:Did anyone else win more than one travel voucher, or play in more than one regional (so potentially could have done so)?
RSmith, Trevor, Lenny all played in at least 2.
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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

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Are the travel vouchers only used to go to Worlds, or can they be used for something else?
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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by darkjediknight11 »

just to Worlds

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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by Shadow 14 »

That's also a very good thing to get players to Worlds.

Maybe the "bye of the future" (present?). ;)
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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

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imrahil327 wrote: That is not my experience, but it would be interesting to hear from others on the matter.
I've been to 2 worlds. The 2010 or 2011 (in DC KShan won) one and the one in 2003 at Dragoncon. I've played in regionals in 2003, would have in 04 but meta was just awful, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014. In the last 3 or 4, I knew there was no shot at going to worlds. The glass and the joy of playing was enough for me to go. Oh and this was usually for both states and regionals as we usually ran both in the later years.

In 2003, I went to worlds in DragonCon without a bye. I played in the only day 1 I could and finished 6th with top 5 getting into day 2. So I didn't get to play day 2, which sucked.

So that really shouldn't ever happen anymore. I'm in the camp that would like to see the elimination of the bye system. Travel vouchers should be enough as is the idea of playing locally. They're only once a year and since the byes usually go to those who need them, does it really matter? I think its worth trying out. It also eliminates the need to be there at worlds a day early for some and allows everyone to relax and have a good time before the event begins.

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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by timeofyouppi »

Though I had a bye to Worlds this year (barely, based on SOS tiebreakers at regionals) and was unable to attend due to work, there is no way I'd ever fly to Worlds if I wasn't 100% sure that I could actually play at the Worlds main event. I like the idea of winning something with regards to worlds in states/regionals/local leagues, but agree that waiving/reducing the entry fee or raising it for non-"bye" winners would work better. With most bye-giving events being run in June/July and Worlds in August, it doesn't give as much time to look for flight deals or book far in advance.

Did anyone not make the trip this year because of not having a bye or uncertainty of not being able to play in the main event?
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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

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timeofyouppi wrote:Did anyone not make the trip this year because of not having a bye or uncertainty of not being able to play in the main event?
Walseth only goes if he has earned a bye in advance. That's why he didn't go last year I believe, but he did get his bye this year.
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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by JediJer »

puck71 wrote:
timeofyouppi wrote:Did anyone not make the trip this year because of not having a bye or uncertainty of not being able to play in the main event?
Walseth only goes if he has earned a bye in advance. That's why he didn't go last year I believe, but he did get his bye this year.
No offense to Walseth, but I think that's a terrible reason not to go. If you can make it to worlds, you should go, regardless of having a bye in advance. If you get there soon enough on Friday, there will be at least one event that will guarantee you a bye.

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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by arebelspy »

JediJer wrote:
puck71 wrote:
timeofyouppi wrote:Did anyone not make the trip this year because of not having a bye or uncertainty of not being able to play in the main event?
Walseth only goes if he has earned a bye in advance. That's why he didn't go last year I believe, but he did get his bye this year.
No offense to Walseth, but I think that's a terrible reason not to go. If you can make it to worlds, you should go, regardless of having a bye in advance. If you get there soon enough on Friday, there will be at least one event that will guarantee you a bye.
I don't go if I don't have a bye.

Then again, I just make sure I always earn a bye. But I wouldn't play Day 1, personally.

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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by Darkness »

JediJer wrote:
puck71 wrote:
timeofyouppi wrote:Did anyone not make the trip this year because of not having a bye or uncertainty of not being able to play in the main event?
Walseth only goes if he has earned a bye in advance. That's why he didn't go last year I believe, but he did get his bye this year.
No offense to Walseth, but I think that's a terrible reason not to go. If you can make it to worlds, you should go, regardless of having a bye in advance. If you get there soon enough on Friday, there will be at least one event that will guarantee you a bye.
No offense, but I wouldn't go either. Not because I didn't think I could get one but because then it becomes the foremost thing in my mind and it shouldn't be. I should be focusing on having fun at the side events.
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