Instant non-card feedback!

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quickdraw3457
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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by quickdraw3457 »

puck71 wrote:
timeofyouppi wrote:Did anyone not make the trip this year because of not having a bye or uncertainty of not being able to play in the main event?
Walseth only goes if he has earned a bye in advance. That's why he didn't go last year I believe, but he did get his bye this year.
Easy solution: elect him to the HOF next year and he has a bye forever.


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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by puck71 »

quickdraw3457 wrote:
puck71 wrote:
timeofyouppi wrote:Did anyone not make the trip this year because of not having a bye or uncertainty of not being able to play in the main event?
Walseth only goes if he has earned a bye in advance. That's why he didn't go last year I believe, but he did get his bye this year.
Easy solution: elect him to the HOF next year and he has a bye forever.
Not sure that would work. He always wants to play his way in.
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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by itcouldbewirfs »

Just spitballing here, but you could say "Anyone who has played in X sanctioned events since last year's Worlds is eligible to play in Worlds this year." (Hall-of-Famers would be exempt.) Then TDs have to pay a fee to the PC to sanction an event. Then on Day 1, hold at least X sanctioned events, so anyone who hasn't gotten the chance to play SWCCG all year can just show up and play cards all day Friday. And anybody else who wants to do so is free to play too.
I like this idea. Make regular sanctioned events $20 and you have to play in 4 of em to get into day 2. States and same price, Regionals a bit more ($45) to account for the travel Voucher. Skip nationals as suggested, stick with travel vouchers.

If you can get to 3 sanctioned events you just need one more on Friday at Worlds. If you can't get any local events (b/c you live in the desert) play in the 4 planned sanctioned events that start Thursday and run through Friday (you are probably starved for live games anyway).

Other things not already mentioned,

Just make sure we have the room game Sunday morning. Fortunately Skilton lived down the block which allowed the late night Resistance crowd to keep going.

I had ridiculus fun at this event... it's just gonna get better.
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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by Shadow 14 »

itcouldbewirfs wrote: I had ridiculus fun at this event... it's just gonna get better.
Me, too. I have fond memories of some time between 6 and 7 am, when the two of us were the only sane (not sober, but sane) :) people on the table. ;)
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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by stevetotheizz0 »

Its so weird that we tell people they absolutely 100% definitely absolutely will get a bye and will definitely play in day 2 at worlds if they show up, yet they don't want to go because they are stressed that they don't have a bye.

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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

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stevetotheizz0 wrote:Its so weird that we tell people they absolutely 100% definitely absolutely will get a bye and will definitely play in day 2 at worlds if they show up, yet they don't want to go because they are stressed that they don't have a bye.
Because the system is incoherent. Why do byes exist if everyone is going to get one? The inconsistency makes it so that people don't take the PC's word about them getting to play in Day 2, in addition to it just being one more logistical thing to have to deal with. People go to these tournaments as a form of recreation; they don't want to have to worry about figuring out how to get to do what they want to do.

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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by stevetotheizz0 »

Tyrith wrote: Because the system is incoherent. Why do byes exist if everyone is going to get one?
Because it generates money for the PC, especially for the prize pool that makes worlds an attractive draw for the top players.
Tyrith wrote:People go to these tournaments as a form of recreation; they don't want to have to worry about figuring out how to get to do what they want to do.
And some people don't go to worlds at all, but have plenty of opinions about the event.


Furthermore, I don't understand where the inconsistency exists.
Yes byes exists, yes everyone gets one. We could draw a Venn diagram if needed.

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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by darkjediknight11 »

because it helps to give a sense of legitimacy to our world championship tournament weekend, and because it gives the PC a source of revenue and prize support that we wouldn't otherwise have

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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by puck71 »

stevetotheizz0 wrote:Its so weird that we tell people they absolutely 100% definitely absolutely will get a bye and will definitely play in day 2 at worlds if they show up, yet they don't want to go because they are stressed that they don't have a bye.
For walseth it's not that he's stressed he won't get a bye, he just wants to feel he "earned" it in advance. I have no such qualms.
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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by mr007agent »

puck71 wrote:For walseth it's not that he's stressed he won't get a bye, he just wants to feel he "earned" it in advance. I have no such qualms.
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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by rhendon »

I like Wirfs idea. I'd even go as far to say that 4 events or 3 events if you include regionals. Should be enough to generate the same cash flow.

I don't see how this legitimizes worlds in any way since its explicitly stated by many people every year for new players to come anyways and they'll "earn" a bye. Can we please just drop this as a reason? Its doesn't make the event more special when everyone gets a bye. I also don't think anyone inside the community really cares at this point. We all know the world champion will be the best of the best. SWCCG is an incredible game of skill. The best will always rise to the top. If by some miracle we grow to where the other events start drawing 40-60 people and worlds is over 100, then maybe we could bring back the bye system.

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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by Tyrith »

darkjediknight11 wrote:because it helps to give a sense of legitimacy to our world championship tournament weekend, and because it gives the PC a source of revenue and prize support that we wouldn't otherwise have

fristed by stephe
How does having a day 1 that only has three people register make the event more legitimate instead of less? If the PC needs to make money off tournament registrations - which makes perfect sense, by the way - then just do it, instead of putting an unnecessary bureaucracy on top of it. If it requires reductions in the prize pool at majors, well, the top players can join the roughly 2/3 of the registered players at every major that don't have a major chance of winning any prize anyway.

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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by JediJer »

When I went to worlds in 2013 I didn't have a bye, but I knew if I just played in events on Friday I'd eventually get one. There wasn't any added stress, even when I didn't make the top 50% of Day 1. I knew that playing in Day 2 would happen because year after year it is said over and over again that anyone that shows up will play in Day 2.

I don't get where this extra stress is coming from.

I also like the idea of playing in X sanctioned events to earn your bye.
puck71 wrote:
quickdraw3457 wrote:
puck71 wrote:
timeofyouppi wrote:Did anyone not make the trip this year because of not having a bye or uncertainty of not being able to play in the main event?
Walseth only goes if he has earned a bye in advance. That's why he didn't go last year I believe, but he did get his bye this year.
Easy solution: elect him to the HOF next year and he has a bye forever.
Not sure that would work. He always wants to play his way in.
puck71 wrote:
stevetotheizz0 wrote:Its so weird that we tell people they absolutely 100% definitely absolutely will get a bye and will definitely play in day 2 at worlds if they show up, yet they don't want to go because they are stressed that they don't have a bye.
For walseth it's not that he's stressed he won't get a bye, he just wants to feel he "earned" it in advance. I have no such qualms.
But getting inducted into the HOF is earning your bye because you have to earn your way in to the HOF. People don't get inducted into the HOF just because everyone likes them (otherwise dorshe wouldn't stand a chance of ever getting in ;) ) and not everyone that is inducted gets in because they won a world championship. Menzel and Lingrell were inducted because of their contributions to the game to keep it alive. Walseth also falls into that same category. I can't think of anyone that's built the game more than him, and in my opinion (and I'm sure many others share this opinion) Mark deserves to be inducted into the HOF for what he's done at Rosemont.

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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by puck71 »

You don't have to convince me. I'm just not sure he would feel the same.
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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by chriskelly »

JediJer wrote:When I went to worlds in 2013 I didn't have a bye, but I knew if I just played in events on Friday I'd eventually get one. There wasn't any added stress, even when I didn't make the top 50% of Day 1. I knew that playing in Day 2 would happen because year after year it is said over and over again that anyone that shows up will play in Day 2.

I don't get where this extra stress is coming from.
As someone who pre-registered for Worlds without having a bye to day 2, I will say that knowing I would be able to get one was a HUGE reason for me even going. I was never "stressed" about not having a bye, but in all truth, it was a decent "annoyance," since I had to play in the side events and work my schedule around those "bonus bye" events while those who already had byes (ie the better players in the game who won big tournaments) could spend day 1 either relaxing or play testing or eating some good food with friends. That was their advantage and they earned that and I think that's good.

So, I think that the "legitimate" byes into Day 2 still have their meaning in letting players spend Day 1 however they want in order to prep for Day 2, while the scrubs can show up knowing that they will be able to play, they just have to spend their time (and money) to do it.

But the moral of the story is no one should shy away from going (or feel stressed) due to a lack of a bye. It's more of an annoyance that those who already have Byes rightfully get to avoid. (And I like the fact that it's a solid source of revenue to the PC.)

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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by allstarz97 »

if travel vouchers are being awarded at regionals, and it seems they are a big hit, then people will travel to regionals to play, to play for a voucher, and to win the regional, they bye part of regionals seems unnecessary.

Even though everyone who shows up to day 1 knows they pretty just have to show up to get into day 2, it still ways on you, what if your flight is delayed, what if you work friday etc. I say make it a 2 day event, have regionals give out travel vouchers and poy points, and get rid of the useless day 1.

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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by Advocate »

We had a local Phil Zhang get lucky and because of the hotel screwing up Thursday night, Got a bye into Saturday. He literally couldn't make other events to get one otherwise.

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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by lsrubin »

That's why "If you play in X events, you get a bye" would make a lot of sense. I don't know how many events Phil played in, but I can see on the forums that he at least played in Coruscant Regionals. There were probably others I'm guessing.

The bye system doesn't really affect 95% of players. The veterans who have been around for a while, travel to tournaments across state lines, etc, will get their byes one way or the other, and I'm sure most of them don't even think about it that much. But for the NARPs who are excited to be back in the game, play in 4-5 events all year, and probably finish close to the bottom in most of them, getting a bye is actually difficult. (I lucked into mine despite a poor showing at states/regionals.) These are exactly the people we should be encouraging to come to Worlds. They shouldn't need to get lucky; we should be rolling out the red carpet.
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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by timeofyouppi »

lsrubin wrote:That's why "If you play in X events, you get a bye" would make a lot of sense. I don't know how many events Phil played in, but I can see on the forums that he at least played in Coruscant Regionals. There were probably others I'm guessing.

The bye system doesn't really affect 95% of players. The veterans who have been around for a while, travel to tournaments across state lines, etc, will get their byes one way or the other, and I'm sure most of them don't even think about it that much. But for the NARPs who are excited to be back in the game, play in 4-5 events all year, and probably finish close to the bottom in most of them, getting a bye is actually difficult. (I lucked into mine despite a poor showing at states/regionals.) These are exactly the people we should be encouraging to come to Worlds. They shouldn't need to get lucky; we should be rolling out the red carpet.
I'm thinking if the hypothetical NARP who lives in the northeast but couldn't/wouldn't take a Friday off work to essentially buy into worlds (if everyone who plays Friday gets in). There's no way that guy is going to worlds. I don't know if this player exists and perhaps the directors of the northeast leagues can weigh in on it
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Re: Instant non-card feedback!

Post by gogolen »

There were 2 or 3 guys who fell into that group this year. I know Tony G really wanted to play but couldn't get there until Saturday. Phil managed to sneak in Thursday night for a quick cube draft because he lives close enough.
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