qualifying for worlds

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mryellow
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qualifying for worlds

Post by mryellow »

Figured I'd start a thread since this subforum probably has the most eyes on it right now. The relevant regional can be found here: /viewt ... 94&t=61976

To summarize: the regional was held in CT the Saturday before Worlds, posted clearly in the Tournaments subforum with plenty of time to spare. Only three people showed up for the event which Chris Terwilliger, who needed a Day 2 bye, won. Later on, it was decided that since only 3 people showed up, the bye was taken away because the tourney guidelines say an event has to be 4 people to count.

I don't really want to bring up the larger debate about whether Worlds should have byes at all, or be 3 days, etc, again. Instead I'd like to address the narrower question this issue brings up of whether taking away a bye is good for the game at this point. Chris drove 2 hours to this event and obviously has no control over who else shows up. Games were played and he won it. Rather than promoting traveling to events, I feel like the opposite may occur. Even if 4 people declare on the forums they will be going, sometimes plans change, and all those attending shouldn't be penalized for taking the time to prepare, travel, and play. If an event has a bye attached with it I think the bye should be awarded.

I am not privy to the discussion that took place at the Advocate level and am not pointing any fingers. However, I'd support changing this policy for the future.


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Re: qualifying for worlds

Post by spideyguy0 »

I know you didn't want to address the issue of byes in general, but I think the two topics are connected. Essentially, I think if you can run an event with you and your buddy, where you both play a couple games and get byes, I think at that point you might as well do away with the bye system entirely, because it's truly lost all meaning.
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Re: qualifying for worlds

Post by DTartagOne »

mryellow wrote:Figured I'd start a thread since this subforum probably has the most eyes on it right now. The relevant regional can be found here: /viewt ... 94&t=61976

To summarize: the regional was held in CT the Saturday before Worlds, posted clearly in the Tournaments subforum with plenty of time to spare. Only three people showed up for the event which Chris Terwilliger, who needed a Day 2 bye, won. Later on, it was decided that since only 3 people showed up, the bye was taken away because the tourney guidelines say an event has to be 4 people to count.

I don't really want to bring up the larger debate about whether Worlds should have byes at all, or be 3 days, etc, again. Instead I'd like to address the narrower question this issue brings up of whether taking away a bye is good for the game at this point. Chris drove 2 hours to this event and obviously has no control over who else shows up. Games were played and he won it. Rather than promoting traveling to events, I feel like the opposite may occur. Even if 4 people declare on the forums they will be going, sometimes plans change, and all those attending shouldn't be penalized for taking the time to prepare, travel, and play. If an event has a bye attached with it I think the bye should be awarded.

I am not privy to the discussion that took place at the Advocate level and am not pointing any fingers. However, I'd support changing this policy for the future.
I agree whole heartily with what you are saying. I can see the importance of a bye years ago when Worlds was a more pristine event, with the thought of obtaining a bye was seen as something of a badge of honor. Now, with the player base pretty much set, is it really a need for byes? How many tournaments have seen had, States and Regionals have we been to where the bye was given to something simply going to Worlds? Or how many chances to do people have to get byes when events are so few? We had something occur this year on Day 1, where nine people needed a bye, including eventual runner up Reid, and there were only nine byes being given away, due two only 18 people being signed up. What if there were only 16 people, and say one person who traveled hours, whether by car or plane, paid hundreds of dollars in travel and hotel, and was turned away simply because no one wants to play in Day 1. I know this happens, but at the same time with the community as small as it is, does anyone want to see it happen? If we want to continue to grow as a game and a community, new ideas to help the game are needed, and I say this should be one of them.
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Re: qualifying for worlds

Post by spideyguy0 »

DTartagOne wrote: What if there were only 16 people, and say one person who traveled hours, whether by car or plane, paid hundreds of dollars in travel and hotel, and was turned away simply because no one wants to play in Day 1. I know this happens, but at the same time with the community as small as it is, does anyone want to see it happen?.
It literally doesn't happen. We don't turn people away who show up on Friday from playing on Saturday. It hasn't happened in many years.
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Re: qualifying for worlds

Post by caldred »

spideyguy0 wrote:
DTartagOne wrote: What if there were only 16 people, and say one person who traveled hours, whether by car or plane, paid hundreds of dollars in travel and hotel, and was turned away simply because no one wants to play in Day 1. I know this happens, but at the same time with the community as small as it is, does anyone want to see it happen?.
It literally doesn't happen. We don't turn people away who show up on Friday from playing on Saturday. It hasn't happened in many years.
Yeah they literally just continually fire side events until everyone who wants a bye has a bye.

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Re: qualifying for worlds

Post by DTartagOne »

spideyguy0 wrote:
DTartagOne wrote: What if there were only 16 people, and say one person who traveled hours, whether by car or plane, paid hundreds of dollars in travel and hotel, and was turned away simply because no one wants to play in Day 1. I know this happens, but at the same time with the community as small as it is, does anyone want to see it happen?.
It literally doesn't happen. We don't turn people away who show up on Friday from playing on Saturday. It hasn't happened in many years.
Fair enough, but is there really a point for Day 1? If you are running unlimited side events, and now having people pay for them, why not eliminate Day 1, run side events or create new events, such as a Legacy Championship, a Non-Virtual Card event, or something new?
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Re: qualifying for worlds

Post by mrfahrenheit7 »

caldred wrote:
spideyguy0 wrote:
DTartagOne wrote: What if there were only 16 people, and say one person who traveled hours, whether by car or plane, paid hundreds of dollars in travel and hotel, and was turned away simply because no one wants to play in Day 1. I know this happens, but at the same time with the community as small as it is, does anyone want to see it happen?.
It literally doesn't happen. We don't turn people away who show up on Friday from playing on Saturday. It hasn't happened in many years.
Yeah they literally just continually fire side events until everyone who wants a bye has a bye.
If this is the case then why have byes at all? Why not just say everyone who shows up to worlds gets to play in the main event? There doesn't need to be a big charade of "you have to earn your bye (but everybody gets one so don't worry about it)".
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Re: qualifying for worlds

Post by DTartagOne »

mrfahrenheit7 wrote:
caldred wrote:
spideyguy0 wrote:
DTartagOne wrote: What if there were only 16 people, and say one person who traveled hours, whether by car or plane, paid hundreds of dollars in travel and hotel, and was turned away simply because no one wants to play in Day 1. I know this happens, but at the same time with the community as small as it is, does anyone want to see it happen?.
It literally doesn't happen. We don't turn people away who show up on Friday from playing on Saturday. It hasn't happened in many years.
Yeah they literally just continually fire side events until everyone who wants a bye has a bye.
If this is the case then why have byes at all? Why not just say everyone who shows up to worlds gets to play in the main event? There doesn't need to be a big charade of "you have to earn your bye (but everybody gets one so don't worry about it)".
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Re: qualifying for worlds

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One pragmatic reason to keep byes is that registration for leagues, states and regionals events raised in the ballpark of $800-900 for the PC last year.
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Re: qualifying for worlds

Post by spideyguy0 »

Cam Solusar wrote:One pragmatic reason to keep byes is that registration for leagues, states and regionals events raised in the ballpark of $800-900 for the PC last year.
It also, you know, gets people playing the game more than once a year. But I do think the system should be tweaked somehow. The current bye system is silly, but something needs to take its place to both generate revenue and encourage player activity.
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Re: qualifying for worlds

Post by DTartagOne »

Cam Solusar wrote:One pragmatic reason to keep byes is that registration for leagues, states and regionals events raised in the ballpark of $800-900 for the PC last year.
What about giving something else out as a Prize? There has to be something the PC can offer instead of byes? Besides the possibility of money, what drives people to play the game? The big reasons are, the titles, spending time with the people who come to the events, and the game itself. Well what if the PC started awarding more V-Cards ideas to winners of events?
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Re: qualifying for worlds

Post by MrPurple »

Shameless plug..... How about byes for life for past world champs. Seems reasonable to me and I am sure the current champ will agree!

I like having states and regionals as they get me playing some over the summer. I'd hate to see it just fully go away, but something does need to change.
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Re: qualifying for worlds

Post by Hutch »

What if you did something along the lines of everyone who earned a legit bye (Major event, Regional, States, etc) not a last minute bye (like me) gets some sort of discount for Worlds registration. Balance it so the PC doesn't lose money from it. PC still gets the money from Regionals etc; legit byes pay $20 to register for worlds and people without byes at a certain cut off pay ~$60 to register. No byes required to play at Worlds but still an incentive to earn one.
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Re: qualifying for worlds

Post by DTartagOne »

One thing I think that would be cool is a tournament of strictly former World Champions. To see who is the best of the best. Offer a rotating trophy, or a Championship belt, to be given out. Give our World Champions some bragging rights between themselves.
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Re: qualifying for worlds

Post by DTartagOne »

dx_37 wrote:What if you did something along the lines of everyone who earned a legit bye (Major event, Regional, States, etc) not a last minute bye (like me) gets some sort of discount for Worlds registration. Balance it so the PC doesn't lose money from it. PC still gets the money from Regionals etc; legit byes pay $20 to register for worlds and people without byes at a certain cut off pay ~$60 to register. No byes required to play at Worlds but still an incentive to earn one.
This would be a fair trade. Maybe make Day 2 open to everyone and get rid of the Day 1 tournament.
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Re: qualifying for worlds

Post by AnakinSolo »

MrPurple wrote:Shameless plug..... How about byes for life for past world champs. Seems reasonable to me and I am sure the current champ will agree!

I like having states and regionals as they get me playing some over the summer. I'd hate to see it just fully go away, but something does need to change.
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Re: qualifying for worlds

Post by rhendon »

Awarding more vCards can lead to less cards for design or we are back to having so many cards and need to reset again. Why not just give everyone a bye whose area holds states AND regionals? PC gets their fundraising and players get their byes. If your area doesn't run both, you can still play day 1. You could even require players to play in one of these events.

I will say and I told people at the event, you will get a bye. It's just a matter of when not if. As the TD, I was not going to turn anyone away. If Kyle showed up Saturday at 9am without a bye, he was still going to get in.

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Re: qualifying for worlds

Post by Cam Solusar »

DTartagOne wrote:
Cam Solusar wrote:One pragmatic reason to keep byes is that registration for leagues, states and regionals events raised in the ballpark of $800-900 for the PC last year.
What about giving something else out as a Prize? There has to be something the PC can offer instead of byes? Besides the possibility of money, what drives people to play the game? The big reasons are, the titles, spending time with the people who come to the events, and the game itself. Well what if the PC started awarding more V-Cards ideas to winners of events?
Speaking as one of the people who would help those winners design their cards, I don't think this is logistically feasible, at least not in such a way as to replace Byes with v-card designs at a 1:1 ratio.
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Re: qualifying for worlds

Post by DTartagOne »

Cam Solusar wrote:
DTartagOne wrote:
Cam Solusar wrote:One pragmatic reason to keep byes is that registration for leagues, states and regionals events raised in the ballpark of $800-900 for the PC last year.
What about giving something else out as a Prize? There has to be something the PC can offer instead of byes? Besides the possibility of money, what drives people to play the game? The big reasons are, the titles, spending time with the people who come to the events, and the game itself. Well what if the PC started awarding more V-Cards ideas to winners of events?
Speaking as one of the people who would help those winners design their cards, I don't think this is logistically feasible, at least not in such a way as to replace Byes with v-card designs at a 1:1 ratio.
While I would like to see it, as I would like to be able to win one, I understand why the PC won't do it. It was more of an idea.
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Re: qualifying for worlds

Post by Karrdeshark »

Having a simple "buy a bye" system would be nice. For folks like me, who live several hours from any other players, having opportunities to get a bye are few and far between. And having to be there on Friday to get one complicates travel plans, I would totally pay an extra $20-$30 to not worry about it.
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