Mind What You Have Learned 101?

SWCCG game play discussion.
Post Reply
Corran
Reflections Gold
Reflections Gold
Posts: 2696
Joined: June 20th, 2004, 4:53 pm
Location: Columbus, Ohio
GEMP Username: corran
Contact:

Mind What You Have Learned 101?

Post by Corran »

I think I want to build a Mind What You Have Learned deck. I'll do my own research and stuff, but it's not a platform that I've ever tried to build with, so if anyone with experience can give me some suggestions/templates/lists/ideas/etc, that would be great. Once I can build a version that goes along with established conventions for the platform, hopefully I can build a better(read as worse) version for the podcast.


Check out Bad Deck Breakdowns, a Star Wars CCG Deckbuilding podcast, on the podcatcher of your choice or https://www.kendallcast.ninja
ketwol wrote: There are good cards which aren't frequently played and blow people out. You just have to invest some time and be creative ;)

User avatar
CRG
Member
Posts: 1245
Joined: October 17th, 2017, 8:10 am
Location: Bespin
GEMP Username: CRG

Re: Mind What You Have Learned 101?

Post by CRG »

Oh boy, here we go. I do like MWYHL but it’s so slow...
“Advocate” wrote:ping!
“rsersen” wrote:ping!
Primers and Decklist/Match up/Game Libraries for: Hyperdrive (V) and Hunt Down. Teach your kid SWCCG!

Member of:
rsersen wrote:
February 25th, 2020, 1:51 pm
MYWHL club
Image

Corran
Reflections Gold
Reflections Gold
Posts: 2696
Joined: June 20th, 2004, 4:53 pm
Location: Columbus, Ohio
GEMP Username: corran
Contact:

Re: Mind What You Have Learned 101?

Post by Corran »

CRG wrote:
February 25th, 2020, 11:57 am
Oh boy, here we go. I do like MWYHL but it’s so slow...
“Advocate” wrote:ping!
“rsersen” wrote:ping!
Sounds like I should try to figure out a “Speed MWYHL” strategy!
Check out Bad Deck Breakdowns, a Star Wars CCG Deckbuilding podcast, on the podcatcher of your choice or https://www.kendallcast.ninja
ketwol wrote: There are good cards which aren't frequently played and blow people out. You just have to invest some time and be creative ;)

User avatar
JarJarDrinks
Member
Posts: 26123
Joined: November 4th, 2003, 10:01 am

Re: Mind What You Have Learned 101?

Post by JarJarDrinks »

it's slow PLUS inconsistent which is a terrible combination. You need alot to go right for your deck to just function as intended.

Like if u could guarantee Yoda, daughter, the correct site, correct test were in reserve when u needed em then the deck would still be slow.
dx_37 wrote:
October 2nd, 2019, 12:12 pm
I would be all for a reset if I get to be on the reset team
"Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking."
- Bill Maher

"How you play the game is important. But for me, it's about if you win or lose."
- Derek Jeter

User avatar
CRG
Member
Posts: 1245
Joined: October 17th, 2017, 8:10 am
Location: Bespin
GEMP Username: CRG

Re: Mind What You Have Learned 101?

Post by CRG »

JarJarDrinks wrote:
February 25th, 2020, 1:10 pm
it's slow PLUS inconsistent which is a terrible combination. You need alot to go right for your deck to just function as intended.

Like if u could guarantee Yoda, daughter, the correct site, correct test were in reserve when u needed em then the deck would still be slow.
Accurate.
rsersen wrote:
May 28th, 2019, 12:29 pm
FlorisV wrote:Sounds random. LS gets unlucky and activates Yoda.
Yeah, the inconsistency on turn 1-2 is probably the biggest drawback keeping me from playing this more regularly. You really need three things to go your way:

1) DS giving you 2+ icons on your first turn, so you have enough for Yoda and Daughter
2) Not activating Yoda, Daughter, Training Area, or Great Warrior
3) Actually passing the tests on the first try

#3 is pretty easy with Yoda's redraw text. #1 is likely against most DS decks (and another reason why the HD matchup is rough).

But #2 is a crapshoot. You also have to worry about open-handing Yoda, since that eliminates the -2 deploy from the Obj and kills your first turn setup. I really wish Yoda (v) had gotten the same "If in hand, may place under Reserve Deck" text that Daughter (v) did.
Primers and Decklist/Match up/Game Libraries for: Hyperdrive (V) and Hunt Down. Teach your kid SWCCG!

Member of:
rsersen wrote:
February 25th, 2020, 1:51 pm
MYWHL club
Image

rsersen
Booster Box
Booster Box
Posts: 1518
Joined: January 28th, 2017, 3:42 pm
Location: Hanover, PA
GEMP Username: rsersen
Contact:

Re: Mind What You Have Learned 101?

Post by rsersen »

The first rule of MYWHL club is that we don't talk about, wait that's wrong. The actual first rule is:

image.png
image.png (405.2 KiB) Viewed 778 times
image.png
image.png (405.2 KiB) Viewed 778 times

Daughter (v) is a useless card, never use it. It's more expensive, you don't get a free icon, and the stuff about putting her back in your deck is an antiquated solution to an issue that's since been resolved by other rule changes.

I think there's two "viable" (loose term) builds for MWYHL.

1) Test to 1. This isn't Jedi Training as much as it is a mains platform running out of a MYWHL shell. It wants to set up test 1 (so still need Yoda-v, Daughter, Training Area, Great Warrior), but main purpose is to take advantage of Yoda's redraw text once it's on the table.

Upsides of this are efficient activation without needing to pack a lot of pullers, Yoda filters low destinies out of the deck, makes everyone attrition +2 at the Hut, and you get a permanent Menace Fades. Downside is giving up 2 icons to start, and losing your Yoda/Leia persona.

2) Test to 3. This is what I was running a lot before the LMFBM errata. It would start Wokling, LMFBM (now Sai'Torr I guess), and The Way of Things, which auto-completes test 3 when you get there.

Magic number for your first turn is 6 activation, meaning DS has to give you 2. That would be enough to pull Yoda (2), Leia (4), Dagobah->Training Area->Great Warrior, and be ready to test on your second turn. The deck would usually not bother battling until you got through at least test #2 (DS needing 6 ability to draw battle destiny). So you'd bank a few on T2, and on T3 you'd have a decent-sized Force pile to work with. You've also drawn 4 training destinies by then, with Yoda having two chances to put key cards in your hand. Then finish test #3 during your T3 move phase.

Yoda's Hope is an optional card. Was less important with LMFBM when I was drawing 6s all over, but nowadays I think you want it. Gives you an easier time finishing the first test, and once you're done with it, it pulls Jedi Lev or Starship Lev (the latter being a life-saver against Broken Concentration).

An alternate idea for your third effect could also be Insight, and then pitching it for Honor or The Way of Things, depending on the matchup. I started doing that for HD, since it's a brutal matchup, and without mitigating early damage nearly impossible to win. But with HD less prevalent now, maybe not as necessary.

Here's a rough draft of something I would run today. Haven't played it a ton lately, but feel free to rip it apart and put it back together.
Spoiler
Show
image.png
image.png (1.68 MiB) Viewed 778 times
image.png
image.png (1.68 MiB) Viewed 778 times
As JJD stated (and as CRG quoted me in an older thread), the deck needs a lot to line up on the first turn to really be competitive. Running the numbers, activating 6 cards from a 45 card deck, there's a 55% chance that you won't activate any of the cards you need (that doesn't include the possibility of open-handing any either, although getting Yoda is bad bad bad). So don't let the inconsistency talk deter you from playing it; the odds are still in your favor.
arebelspy wrote:
May 13th, 2020, 10:16 pm
Agree with Ryan.
Image

Image

User avatar
sjacree
Member
Posts: 4793
Joined: September 4th, 2007, 6:39 pm
Location: Sunyani, Ghana (Dathomir)
GEMP Username: Plagueis

Re: Mind What You Have Learned 101?

Post by sjacree »

rsersen wrote:
February 25th, 2020, 1:51 pm
Daughter (v) is a useless card, never use it. It's more expensive, you don't get a free icon, and the stuff about putting her back in your deck is an antiquated solution to an issue that's since been resolved by other rule changes.
What is the rule change that allows Leia to be targeted by MWYHL if she wasn't deployed by MWYHL?
-Seth Acree, Compiler of Legacy Flex Cube, designer of Seth's Virtual Expansion, creator of Death March (legacy) and BHBM Skulls decktypes, Breaker of Dark Waters combo (legacy), former-CBT Member, former-Design team, best player in West Africa and...
Image Image
Throdo wrote:You're the most creative deckbuilder I know.

OrehRuoy
Sealed Deck
Sealed Deck
Posts: 389
Joined: January 16th, 2018, 1:44 am
GEMP Username: orehruoy

Re: Mind What You Have Learned 101?

Post by OrehRuoy »

It's slow due to early activation being horrible. Stop at test 3. Play enough training mods to make it so you can semi reliably get it done turn 3. Then most people try to make a mains combat style deck. Each turn redraw, - 2 attrition, and -1 to all their bd what entices you to play it. The force drain bonuses help slow them down a bit and the 6 ability can come into play sometimes I guess. I have a list if you want to check it out. But the deck isn't good. It needs something to speed it up or help early activation. Also takes too many deck slots.

rsersen
Booster Box
Booster Box
Posts: 1518
Joined: January 28th, 2017, 3:42 pm
Location: Hanover, PA
GEMP Username: rsersen
Contact:

Re: Mind What You Have Learned 101?

Post by rsersen »

sjacree wrote:
February 25th, 2020, 3:05 pm
rsersen wrote:
February 25th, 2020, 1:51 pm
Daughter (v) is a useless card, never use it. It's more expensive, you don't get a free icon, and the stuff about putting her back in your deck is an antiquated solution to an issue that's since been resolved by other rule changes.
What is the rule change that allows Leia to be targeted by MWYHL if she wasn't deployed by MWYHL?
Sorry, not rule change. The errata to the non-v Daughter in 2012 that changed her text from "may be deployed by MWYHL instead of Luke" to "may be targeted by MWYHL instead of Luke". Source - viewtopic.php?p=674028#p674028

So now even if you deploy her from your hand, that "may be targeted..." line is an optional action you can take once she's on table, and tell the objective "hey look at me". At least that's my understanding, and how it works on GEMP.
arebelspy wrote:
May 13th, 2020, 10:16 pm
Agree with Ryan.
Image

Image

Corran
Reflections Gold
Reflections Gold
Posts: 2696
Joined: June 20th, 2004, 4:53 pm
Location: Columbus, Ohio
GEMP Username: corran
Contact:

Re: Mind What You Have Learned 101?

Post by Corran »

rsersen wrote:
February 25th, 2020, 1:51 pm
The first rule of MYWHL club is that we don't talk about, wait that's wrong. The actual first rule is:


image.png


Daughter (v) is a useless card, never use it. It's more expensive, you don't get a free icon, and the stuff about putting her back in your deck is an antiquated solution to an issue that's since been resolved by other rule changes.

I think there's two "viable" (loose term) builds for MWYHL.

1) Test to 1. This isn't Jedi Training as much as it is a mains platform running out of a MYWHL shell. It wants to set up test 1 (so still need Yoda-v, Daughter, Training Area, Great Warrior), but main purpose is to take advantage of Yoda's redraw text once it's on the table.

Upsides of this are efficient activation without needing to pack a lot of pullers, Yoda filters low destinies out of the deck, makes everyone attrition +2 at the Hut, and you get a permanent Menace Fades. Downside is giving up 2 icons to start, and losing your Yoda/Leia persona.

2) Test to 3. This is what I was running a lot before the LMFBM errata. It would start Wokling, LMFBM (now Sai'Torr I guess), and The Way of Things, which auto-completes test 3 when you get there.

Magic number for your first turn is 6 activation, meaning DS has to give you 2. That would be enough to pull Yoda (2), Leia (4), Dagobah->Training Area->Great Warrior, and be ready to test on your second turn. The deck would usually not bother battling until you got through at least test #2 (DS needing 6 ability to draw battle destiny). So you'd bank a few on T2, and on T3 you'd have a decent-sized Force pile to work with. You've also drawn 4 training destinies by then, with Yoda having two chances to put key cards in your hand. Then finish test #3 during your T3 move phase.

Yoda's Hope is an optional card. Was less important with LMFBM when I was drawing 6s all over, but nowadays I think you want it. Gives you an easier time finishing the first test, and once you're done with it, it pulls Jedi Lev or Starship Lev (the latter being a life-saver against Broken Concentration).

An alternate idea for your third effect could also be Insight, and then pitching it for Honor or The Way of Things, depending on the matchup. I started doing that for HD, since it's a brutal matchup, and without mitigating early damage nearly impossible to win. But with HD less prevalent now, maybe not as necessary.

Here's a rough draft of something I would run today. Haven't played it a ton lately, but feel free to rip it apart and put it back together.
Spoiler
Show
image.png
As JJD stated (and as CRG quoted me in an older thread), the deck needs a lot to line up on the first turn to really be competitive. Running the numbers, activating 6 cards from a 45 card deck, there's a 55% chance that you won't activate any of the cards you need (that doesn't include the possibility of open-handing any either, although getting Yoda is bad bad bad). So don't let the inconsistency talk deter you from playing it; the odds are still in your favor.
This is great stuff. I really just needed a starting point, and this list is just what I was looking for.

Out of curiosity, since I don't know all of the rules perfectly(I read them, but I'm sure I missed something), Great Warrior allows any apprentice to deploy regardless of deployment restrictions. Is there a reason to always use Leia, rather than one of the many other ability 5 characters we have in the game now? For that matter, Maz is deploy 2 and ability 4. She seems like she might be a good target.
Check out Bad Deck Breakdowns, a Star Wars CCG Deckbuilding podcast, on the podcatcher of your choice or https://www.kendallcast.ninja
ketwol wrote: There are good cards which aren't frequently played and blow people out. You just have to invest some time and be creative ;)

rsersen
Booster Box
Booster Box
Posts: 1518
Joined: January 28th, 2017, 3:42 pm
Location: Hanover, PA
GEMP Username: rsersen
Contact:

Re: Mind What You Have Learned 101?

Post by rsersen »

Yeah you can train any non-Jedi you want, provided you can get them into hand (don't believe Great Warrior lets you pull from deck, only MWYHL pulling Luke or Leia).

There was a thread with possibilities here - viewtopic.php?f=157&t=70594 - although it's missing options from the last couple v-sets.

Most intriguing idea seemed to be Crix. Start Strike Planning to pull him, and he can pull scouts while he's on Dagobah. Would need Yoda's Hope and Backpack to make up for the low ability.

Maz also seems solid for a deck full of aliens. Just not sure how you reliably get her in hand on the first turn.
arebelspy wrote:
May 13th, 2020, 10:16 pm
Agree with Ryan.
Image

Image

User avatar
mingtown
Member
Posts: 1029
Joined: September 24th, 2014, 1:15 pm
Location: Minneapolis, MN
GEMP Username: mingtown

Re: Mind What You Have Learned 101?

Post by mingtown »

rsersen wrote:
February 25th, 2020, 3:53 pm
Yeah you can train any non-Jedi you want, provided you can get them into hand (don't believe Great Warrior lets you pull from deck, only MWYHL pulling Luke or Leia).

There was a thread with possibilities here - viewtopic.php?f=157&t=70594 - although it's missing options from the last couple v-sets.

Most intriguing idea seemed to be Crix. Start Strike Planning to pull him, and he can pull scouts while he's on Dagobah. Would need Yoda's Hope and Backpack to make up for the low ability.

Maz also seems solid for a deck full of aliens. Just not sure how you reliably get her in hand on the first turn.
Disregard my post. I misread the card.
2018 WI State Champ
2019 MPC Consolation Top 4

Corran
Reflections Gold
Reflections Gold
Posts: 2696
Joined: June 20th, 2004, 4:53 pm
Location: Columbus, Ohio
GEMP Username: corran
Contact:

Re: Mind What You Have Learned 101?

Post by Corran »

rsersen wrote:
February 25th, 2020, 3:53 pm
Yeah you can train any non-Jedi you want, provided you can get them into hand (don't believe Great Warrior lets you pull from deck, only MWYHL pulling Luke or Leia).

There was a thread with possibilities here - viewtopic.php?f=157&t=70594 - although it's missing options from the last couple v-sets.

Most intriguing idea seemed to be Crix. Start Strike Planning to pull him, and he can pull scouts while he's on Dagobah. Would need Yoda's Hope and Backpack to make up for the low ability.

Maz also seems solid for a deck full of aliens. Just not sure how you reliably get her in hand on the first turn.
My thought was to build a mains style deck with as many ability 5 characters as possible(Anakin, Epp Luke, Rey, Ahsoka, etc.) and just train whoever gets there first. One of the most interesting things about modern SWCCG(possibly also a problem) is the critical mass of mains that can be played in platforms designed when only OT cards were around.
Check out Bad Deck Breakdowns, a Star Wars CCG Deckbuilding podcast, on the podcatcher of your choice or https://www.kendallcast.ninja
ketwol wrote: There are good cards which aren't frequently played and blow people out. You just have to invest some time and be creative ;)

OrehRuoy
Sealed Deck
Sealed Deck
Posts: 389
Joined: January 16th, 2018, 1:44 am
GEMP Username: orehruoy

Re: Mind What You Have Learned 101?

Post by OrehRuoy »

Farm boy Luke only takes 5 on Turn 1 and also has the activation. You are losing Luke though which sucks.

User avatar
CRG
Member
Posts: 1245
Joined: October 17th, 2017, 8:10 am
Location: Bespin
GEMP Username: CRG

Re: Mind What You Have Learned 101?

Post by CRG »

rsersen wrote:
February 25th, 2020, 1:51 pm
MYWHL club
Oddly proud to be a member of this.

My current post-LMFBM errata list looks similar to rsersen's.
Spoiler
Show
Screen Shot 2020-02-26 at 7.23.33 AM.png
Screen Shot 2020-02-26 at 7.23.33 AM.png (727.91 KiB) Viewed 661 times
Screen Shot 2020-02-26 at 7.23.33 AM.png
Screen Shot 2020-02-26 at 7.23.33 AM.png (727.91 KiB) Viewed 661 times
Same/similar ideas, but mine isn't tested post-erratas. Characters and ships with lots of attrition immunity, effectively +3 with the Hut's text and Test 3 to keep things on the table and immune to attrition/weapon swings. Test 2 can lead to blow-outs if you can hit/remove from battle a character that prevents DS from drawing destiny (so double Clash/SATM combo, Jar Jar, etc. is strong). This also one area with new Sai’Torr v where having Leia locked on Dagobah hurts.

Watch out for things that draw if unable to otherwise (General Veers (V) in a walker; Dr. E Combo; Xizor; etc.). EPP's can effectively have ITA <3 with Hut and Test 3.

I prefer testing to 3 since the benefits of it (-1 to every one of opponent's destiny draws) are so amazing and it's so easily completed automatically via The Way Of Things either by moving Leia to the test's site (your move phase, turn 3) or by going Training Area ->Jungle -> Hut as your order of location deployments (and opponent doesn't move test 2 off of the Jungle, which they should) and then having the Leia at the Jungle when you deploy the test.

You could stop at test 2, which frees up a starting effect (The Way Of Things), a site (Jungle), and a test slot (Test 3) for other cards, but again, the benefits of test 3 are so strong. But it's an idea.

Other reading: MWYHL community build and a prior discussion on the build, both of which have prior lists and link ideas.

Lastly, in a meta where there are LOTS and LOTS of decks that play LOTS of characters (Court, MKOS, ROPS(V), AOBS, etc.) decks that play few of them can get easily overpowered/overrun by a swarm.
Primers and Decklist/Match up/Game Libraries for: Hyperdrive (V) and Hunt Down. Teach your kid SWCCG!

Member of:
rsersen wrote:
February 25th, 2020, 1:51 pm
MYWHL club
Image

Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”