Coronavirus

arebelspy
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by arebelspy »

Hunter wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 7:48 pm
arebelspy wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 7:24 pm
Hunter wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 7:05 pm
I did not hear a single person be so goddamn sanctimonious as to pretend that they were doing it only to protect the health of others.
Well sure, why would they say that?
Why would they say they were doing it to protect the health of others? If it were true. THAT'S why they would say it, Joe. IF it were TRUE. lol

And none of them said it.
arebelspy wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 7:24 pm
But the point of the mask is to protect others. It stops your own droplets from getting past, in case you have COIVD and are asymptomatic.
Watch this: The point of the mask is to protect yourself. It stops someone else's droplets from getting past (even the lower-quality respirator masks are still two-way), in case they have COVID and are asymptomatic (or are symptomatic!)
arebelspy wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 7:24 pm
Okay people reading this, tell me if you had Hunter's understanding, or mine.
How come you can't read? What do you mean about my "understanding?" What did it sound like my "understanding" was BASED upon? I already told you that's what the people in question SAID, themselves.

We had notices from the CDC plastered all over the walls (this is a government facility, under 24-hour armed guard), with what you should and should not be doing regarding the pandemic. And under what not to do, it said the general public does not need to be wearing masks, if you're not sick. Our policy was also that if you were sick with any sort of respiratory illness (regardless of whether you thought it was likely to be Covid-related) you were not to come to work.

So NO ONE on my team wore a mask to work without me asking them WHY. And again, zero responses about "protecting others." So if you were in my shoes, what would your "understanding" have been? :roll:

I mean, if I had some * grilling me too about my mask use, I'd probably also mumble something about not wanting coronavirus and walk away.

As you said, no one will be so sanctimonious to talk about how they're trying to help others. That doesn't mean it isn't the reason for the mask.

I do find it hard to believe you queried every person at your company wearing a mask, including the strangers, but sure, maybe you work at a very small company and know everyone personally.

So far the count here is:
1 - for others
2 - for both others and myself
0 - for myself



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Re: Coronavirus

Post by arebelspy »

Hunter wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 8:06 pm
Do you deny any of the following? Because you SHOULDN'T.
Hunter wrote:And it will be what the people did (and NOT anything the virus did) that will leave a lasting impression in our lives and minds. So that decades later, when the story is told, the focus of the story won't be that there were X number of infections, or that Y number of people succumbed to that infection. Because those aren't the parts of the story that are interesting, or shocking. The focus of the story will be how we responded to those infections. All the insane things we did, that we'd never done before.

The Covid "Pandemic" is not the AMAZING, unprecedented historical event that is taking place here. The Covid "Panic" is the AMAZING, unprecedented historical event that we are witnessing.
Right. We were able to change our behavior enough it was so stark and prevent so many deaths we'll talk about that.

That way we're not talking about the pandemic that killed millions, but the pandemic that killed a few hundred thousand and altered our behavior.

What a win.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Hunter »

arebelspy wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 8:08 pm
I do find it hard to believe you queried every person at your company wearing a mask, including the strangers, but sure, maybe you work at a very small company and know everyone personally.
Okay, so yeah, you still can't read.
arebelspy wrote:Right. We were able to change our behavior enough it was so stark and prevent so many deaths we'll talk about that.
What people will talk about will be the preposterous overreactions. That is the story.

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Re: Coronavirus

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Echo Base Trooper »

Hunter wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 8:19 pm
arebelspy wrote:I do find it hard to believe you queried every person at your company wearing a mask, including the strangers, but sure, maybe you work at a very small company and know everyone personally.
Okay, so yeah, you still can't read.
Is this what we were supposed to be reading?
Hunter wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 7:48 pm
arebelspy wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 7:24 pm
Okay people reading this, tell me if you had Hunter's understanding, or mine.
How come you can't read? What do you mean about my "understanding?" What did it sound like my "understanding" was BASED upon? I already told you that's what the people in question SAID, themselves.

We had notices from the CDC plastered all over the walls (this is a government facility, under 24-hour armed guard), with what you should and should not be doing regarding the pandemic. And under what not to do, it said the general public does not need to be wearing masks, if you're not sick. Our policy was also that if you were sick with any sort of respiratory illness (regardless of whether you thought it was likely to be Covid-related) you were not to come to work.

So NO ONE on my team wore a mask to work without me asking them WHY. And again, zero responses about "protecting others." So if you were in my shoes, what would your "understanding" have been? :roll:

The part where you say your entire understanding is based on questioning your coworkers that wore a mask? So your understanding is based on what a few people said to a nosy coworker?

If your point is only "I don't know anyone that was wearing a mask to protect others" then yes, I believe that nobody told you they wore a mask to protect others.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by allstarz97 »

Kjeld wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 7:53 pm
I wear a mask a bit for myself (it offers some protection) but also for others, for whom it offers a lot more protection.

Quick point about masks. If most everyone wore one whenever they were near other people (like within 10' or so), it would make a significant impact on the transmission rate. Simple physics, as the virus is mostly borne on airborne droplets, and a mask dramatically reduces the airflow away from your face. In other words, the mask does not primarily stop droplets, it reduces the airflow from your mouth into the surrounding space. Entirely different mechanism. Read more here: https://theconversation.com/masks-help- ... ing-138507.

As to Hunter's factually inaccurate statement that COVID-19 is nothing out of the ordinary, it's just wrong. COVID-19 is caused by a brand new virus to which human populations have never been exposed. As a result of its circulation, 100,000 Americans have died because of COVID-19 -- these are entirely excess deaths beyond what would be expected in a "normal" year in the United States. You can see the figures for yourself on CDC's website:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... deaths.htm
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by JarJarDrinks »

Hunter wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 1:31 am
It's pretty much intolerable. Like, I knew it would suck, but it's even worse than I imagined.
Ok I dont really get how wearing a mask is intolerable.

But what really baffles me is that there was some element of wearing the mask that you were unable to predict. What were you imagining?
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by 3MW0J8 »

Hunter wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 8:19 pm
What people will talk about will be the preposterous overreactions. That is the story.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Hayes »

TacoBill wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 8:54 pm
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by arebelspy »


JarJarDrinks wrote:
Hunter wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 1:31 am
It's pretty much intolerable. Like, I knew it would suck, but it's even worse than I imagined.
Ok I dont really get how wearing a mask is intolerable.

But what really baffles me is that there was some element of wearing the mask that you were unable to predict. What were you imagining?
Nothing about Hunter's failures of imaginations surprise me anymore.

But with this, you wouldn't even think he'd have had to imagine.

It's almost as if he'd never worn a balaclava, full face helmet, bandana over his mouth as a kid playing cowboys, or anything of that sort.

But probably he'll just say you can't read.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by arebelspy »

3MW0J8 wrote:
Hunter wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 8:19 pm
What people will talk about will be the preposterous overreactions. That is the story.
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Well, I mean, they're gonna do that no matter what circumstances are going on.

This isn't unique in that, at all.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by rhendon »

Hunter wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 6:59 pm
Orrr...you could just be completely asymptomatic, like so many of the rest of the infected?
I'm in the high risk group. So how many of the high risk group have been asymptomatic? Its probably impossible to guess since we haven't and still aren't testing for *. For all I know about the area I'm in, our total could be low because of lack of testing or because it is so rural that social distancing is already in place and working.
Hunter wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 1:28 am
Sorry, I should clarify. I only mean that I don't think you'll see a bunch of people getting super-sick.

But yes, you might still see lots of interesting, bizarre, or crazy things happen. They'll just be interesting/bizarre/crazy things that people do in response to the positive tests. Not anything that the Coronavirus itself is doing.

Which matches the pattern we've seen for the past few months. The Coronavirus doesn't do anything that unusual. It's our REACTIONS to it that are like nothing we've ever seen before.

And it will be what the people did (and NOT anything the virus did) that will leave a lasting impression in our lives and minds. So that decades later, when the story is told, the focus of the story won't be that there were X number of infections, or that Y number of people succumbed to that infection. Because those aren't the parts of the story that are interesting, or shocking. The focus of the story will be how we responded to those infections. All the insane things we did, that we'd never done before.

The Covid "Pandemic" is not the AMAZING, unprecedented historical event that is taking place here. The Covid "Panic" is the AMAZING, unprecedented historical event that we are witnessing.
Well no *. The virus itself isn't spectacular. Its just a respiratory virus. It affects the lungs. I don't expect to see a bunch of people on respirators tomorrow or this week. I expect work to be interesting because the company is going to be doing a lot to try and contain it so they don't have to shut down the plant and stop working thus losing money. The measures will be interesting to watch. The people I work with will be interesting to watch. Most are on the Trump 2020 bandwagon so they weren't really concerned with just a flu that will go away in the summer.

I don't know why you'd assume and leap to the conclusion that I thought the virus was going to be interesting...
arebelspy wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 7:25 pm
Okay people reading this, tell me if you had Hunter's understanding, or mine.

Do only high risk people wear masks, or does plenty of people who aren't high risk wear them to help protect the health of others?
I'm high risk. I wear a mask because I'm concerned about others. If somehow I'm asymptomatic, I know there are other high risk people around me and I don't want them to get sick.

As I think you said, a mask is more likely to help someone else than myself. If I have symptoms and I cough, the mask will help stop it from getting past and going to someone else. If someone else is sick, not wearing a mask, and they cough. The mask will keep the droplet right next to my nose and mouth and I'll breathe it in continuously throughout the day until I change the mask. Thus likely increasing my odds of getting sick.

All of that is moot with a filter mask but most don't have those and are wearing basic cloth ones.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Gergall »

Hunter wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 7:48 pm
arebelspy wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 7:24 pm
But the point of the mask is to protect others. It stops your own droplets from getting past, in case you have COIVD and are asymptomatic.
Watch this: The point of the mask is to protect yourself. It stops someone else's droplets from getting past (even the lower-quality respirator masks are still two-way), in case they have COVID and are asymptomatic (or are symptomatic!)
When a healthy person wears a mask it protects 1 person. When a sick person wears a mask it protects a lot of people.

I have also read multiple times that the mask is more effective when putting it on a sick person. I am no scientist but I bet it might be because it's easier to contain the germs before they get out. Plus, germs come out nose and mouth from the sick person, but enter nose mouth and eyes of the healthy person.

---

Here's a funny thought though. For this argument that's going on, it doesn't necessarily matter that the mask is more effective on the sick person. If you're arguing about why people where masks, the real question is what is the public perception? I believe the public perception is mostly people who think they wear masks to protect themselves, not others.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Gergall »

Hayes wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 9:11 pm
TacoBill wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 8:54 pm
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x3 and see Italy for an example of where this goes with no action taken.

As an I.T. professional, I understand this dilemma all too well:
1. Everything breaks: "Those I.T. folks are useless!"
2. Everything works perfectly: "Those I.T. folks are useless!"

Just replace "I.T. Folks" with "Social Distancing Measures"
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by sac89837 »

rhendon wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 9:54 pm
Well no *. The virus itself isn't spectacular. Its just a respiratory virus. It affects the lungs.
It also affects blood clotting which is why some young people are either dying of strokes are suffering diminished cognitive function from 'mini-strokes'. It's also why the highest risk factors are related to diabetes, high blood pressure, leukemia, etc. So thanks for being careful Robbie.

In the past three months nothing that I have seen has shown that the case-mortality rate for COVID-19 is below 1%. If anything it's higher. So even with everything we did 112K+ people have died in this country, with no end in sight. It's fascinating to me that someone could look at that and think we overreacted.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Hunter »

Echo Base Trooper wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 9:01 pm
Hunter wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 8:19 pm
arebelspy wrote:I do find it hard to believe you queried every person at your company wearing a mask, including the strangers, but sure, maybe you work at a very small company and know everyone personally.
Okay, so yeah, you still can't read.
Is this what we were supposed to be reading?
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Hunter wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 7:48 pm
arebelspy wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 7:24 pm
Okay people reading this, tell me if you had Hunter's understanding, or mine.
How come you can't read? What do you mean about my "understanding?" What did it sound like my "understanding" was BASED upon? I already told you that's what the people in question SAID, themselves.

We had notices from the CDC plastered all over the walls (this is a government facility, under 24-hour armed guard), with what you should and should not be doing regarding the pandemic. And under what not to do, it said the general public does not need to be wearing masks, if you're not sick. Our policy was also that if you were sick with any sort of respiratory illness (regardless of whether you thought it was likely to be Covid-related) you were not to come to work.

So NO ONE on my team wore a mask to work without me asking them WHY. And again, zero responses about "protecting others." So if you were in my shoes, what would your "understanding" have been? :roll:
The part where you say your entire understanding is based on questioning your coworkers that wore a mask?
Nope. That is not the part I'm saying he obviously wasn't able to read.
Echo Base Trooper wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 9:01 pm
If your point is only "I don't know anyone that was wearing a mask to protect others" then yes, I believe that nobody told you they wore a mask to protect others.
Fantastic. If you believe that "I don't know anyone that was wearing a mask to protect others" then we're good. I'm totally satisfied with that result. And you can see why I would have no patience for Joe's stupid remark about those same people being magnanimous.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Hunter »

JarJarDrinks wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 9:08 pm
Hunter wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 1:31 am
It's pretty much intolerable. Like, I knew it would suck, but it's even worse than I imagined.
Ok I dont really get how wearing a mask is intolerable.

But what really baffles me is that there was some element of wearing the mask that you were unable to predict. What were you imagining?
Somewhat thinner material, maybe? So that breathing would not be inhibited AS dramatically?
Again, I expected it to suck. It sucks still worse than I expected. No idea how that is supposed to raise anyone's eyebrows.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Hunter »

3MW0J8 wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 9:09 pm
Hunter wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 8:19 pm
What people will talk about will be the preposterous overreactions. That is the story.
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Yes. Also correct.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Hunter »

Hayes wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 9:11 pm
TacoBill wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 8:54 pm
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The reason that cutesly little graphic is wrong is that it assumes people have only just now begun saying that the preposterous overreactions were preposterous. Is that the case? No, of course not. The SANE have been saying the preposterous overreactions were preposterous since they began.

If you look at this:
Hunter wrote: And it will be what the people did (and NOT anything the virus did) that will leave a lasting impression in our lives and minds. So that decades later, when the story is told, the focus of the story won't be that there were X number of infections, or that Y number of people succumbed to that infection. Because those aren't the parts of the story that are interesting, or shocking. The focus of the story will be how we responded to those infections. All the insane things we did, that we'd never done before.

The Covid "Pandemic" is not the AMAZING, unprecedented historical event that is taking place here. The Covid "Panic" is the AMAZING, unprecedented historical event that we are witnessing.
Is that something I just thought up? No, I cut and pasted it from another place I had already posted it previously. I have been saying some variation of it (in every conversation I've had about Coronavirus of any length) for MONTHS already.

And I'm quite sure I'm not alone. I'm quite sure I wasn't one of the first people saying it, even.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Corran »

Haven't read all the arguments in the thread, but for the record, if you go to the doctor during flu season and are exhibiting flu symptoms, they give you a mask to wear during your visit. If you are there for reasons other than flu symptoms, they don't give you a mask. I'm at the doctor once every 3 months due to diabetes, so I know these things. Masks are primarily for the protection of others, not for the protection of the person wearing the mask. That's basic medical science, just like the 6 feet rule for social distancing.
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