9/24 CBT Update Discussion

SWCCG game play discussion.
stubbly
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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Post by stubbly »

TacoBill wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 7:04 pm
These changes will not be in effect for OCS round 1, but are upcoming (and expect this list to be updated soon as well):
- R2-D2 (v): will no longer recur to Used Pile
- R'tic H'weei: will only get to steal Force during LS player's turn
- Make Ten Men Feel Like A Hundred: will not \/ Saw (or make him a Resistance Agent)
- Saw Guerra: will not cancel any [Immune to Sense] Interrupt
- Stardust: the ping will be 1
- No Idea: the +2 deploy modifier will be stricken on the 0 side and the 7 side POOP a Rebel to cancel a destiny text will instead be POOP a rebel to stop a weapon from targeting a spy
- Kir Kanos (V): will have further restrictions on when he can cancel an Interrupt
- Moff Gideon: his stormtrooper \/ will be -2 and only at his site
- Wokling (V): cannot be started if Massassi Throne Room on table.
No Idea has long been my favorite LS deck, before 10 Men was an effect, so it's definitely a bummer to see it get hit so hard. Of course, I understand the frustrations playing against it and it needed additional toning down, so I am in favor of tweaking it. I think all of the changes are individually valid ones, but in totality I'm worried that they just force the deck into a worse direction (re: more doom stacking, less deck variety).

My overall concern with reducing the Stardust ping to 1 is just that Stardust doesn't really do a whole lot anymore. I wish the ping were reduced to 1 when on Scarif, but increased to 2 when off Scarif (or something similar). With the impending changes, there's not a ton of incentive for LS to break its neck trying to get it, especially with all of its characters now much more susceptible to weapons, force lightning, chokes, Set for Stuns, Hidden Weapons (no more Saw cancelling it), etc.

If I had my druthers, I'd suggest just doing away with 10 Men altogether, and wrapping its remaining effects into the objective (since we're already messing with the objective). My dream would be to have 0 Side add Saw to the list of spies, add the line to make spies deploy -1 to Scarif, make Nightfall cancelled, and reduce the ping to 1. The 7 side would add the text to retrieve one force when a spy is drawn for destiny. This would free up a third starting effect slot for LS and encourage some variety, and be a nice consolation for all the other hits the deck is taking. Maybe Mon Cal Dockyards would find a home in the deck? Or RABOH? Some thematic and creative options could be found.



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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Post by arebelspy »

stubbly wrote:
September 28th, 2020, 12:22 pm
My overall concern with reducing the Stardust ping to 1 is just that Stardust doesn't really do a whole lot anymore. I wish the ping were reduced to 1 when on Scarif, but increased to 2 when off Scarif (or something similar).
Oh that would be cool!
With the impending changes, there's not a ton of incentive for LS to break its neck trying to get it
Same as before when they started decree v.
If I had my druthers, I'd suggest just doing away with 10 Men altogether, and wrapping its remaining effects into the objective (since we're already messing with the objective). My dream would be to have 0 Side add Saw to the list of spies, add the line to make spies deploy -1 to Scarif, make Nightfall cancelled, and reduce the ping to 1. The 7 side would add the text to retrieve one force when a spy is drawn for destiny. This would free up a third starting effect slot for LS and encourage some variety, and be a nice consolation for all the other hits the deck is taking. Maybe Mon Cal Dockyards would find a home in the deck? Or RABOH? Some thematic and creative options could be found.
All of these are interesting ideas.

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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Post by chriskelly »

We discussed wrapping 10 men into the objective but didn’t want to then free up an Effect slot in a deck that can so easily set up Menace Fades or Guts.

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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Post by TechTerror »

Stubbly's idea of reducing the Stardust ping to 1 when on Scarif is excellent. Especially since the Make Ten Men only reduces the spy deploy on Scarif. Feels like a fair trade off that doesn't take away potential potency, especially given the other changes.
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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Post by Saladas »

TechTerror wrote:
September 28th, 2020, 9:22 pm
Stubbly's idea of reducing the Stardust ping to 1 when on Scarif is excellent. Especially since the Make Ten Men only reduces the spy deploy on Scarif. Feels like a fair trade off that doesn't take away potential potency, especially given the other changes.
would at the system count? cuz then you have path to removal issues.

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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Post by arebelspy »

Saladas wrote:
TechTerror wrote:
September 28th, 2020, 9:22 pm
Stubbly's idea of reducing the Stardust ping to 1 when on Scarif is excellent. Especially since the Make Ten Men only reduces the spy deploy on Scarif. Feels like a fair trade off that doesn't take away potential potency, especially given the other changes.
would at the system count? cuz then you have path to removal issues.
I would make it at, not on. Then they got to get it at the vault, move it out (which they can't do while you occupy), move over to a site (where they can attack), shuttle up (or fly up in landed starfighter), then move to a DIFFERENT system (which they'd have to play and find, unless DS gives them one

I think a second ping damage if they move up and away (likely mustafar being the most common place) is warranted. And you could play decree at that point, too.

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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Post by aermet69 »

Aye, like that idea as well. Not sure it's worth it, but I like that you actually have to work a bit for your stuff not just plop down a guy and auto-flip like so many objectives now.
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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Post by Saladas »

aermet69 wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 1:46 am
Aye, like that idea as well. Not sure it's worth it, but I like that you actually have to work a bit for your stuff not just plop down a guy and auto-flip like so many objectives now.
i agree. the current objective is so horribly designed. has there ever been an objective that allows u to do 2 direct damage on its 0 side?

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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Post by arebelspy »

Saladas wrote:
aermet69 wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 1:46 am
Aye, like that idea as well. Not sure it's worth it, but I like that you actually have to work a bit for your stuff not just plop down a guy and auto-flip like so many objectives now.
i agree. the current objective is so horribly designed. has there ever been an objective that allows u to do 2 direct damage on its 0 side?
BHBM does 3.

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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Post by Madmanwithabox »

BHBM does give LS the tools to switch off the damage though - the off switch for Stardust was ‘wipe the scrubs out, all of them’.
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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Post by arebelspy »

Madmanwithabox wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 11:55 am
BHBM does give LS the tools to switch off the damage though - the off switch for Stardust was ‘wipe the scrubs out, all of them’.
I mean, we can talk about differences, sure. LS can also play Luke to shut it off.

The question was about an objective that let you do 2 direct damage on the front side.

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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Post by Hazardville »

arebelspy wrote:
Madmanwithabox wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 11:55 am
BHBM does give LS the tools to switch off the damage though - the off switch for Stardust was ‘wipe the scrubs out, all of them’.
I mean, we can talk about differences, sure. LS can also play Luke to shut it off.

The question was about an objective that let you do 2 direct damage on the front side.
HD also does 2 damage per turn cycle on its 0 side. LS can only turn that off by controlling a 2/0 (much easier now than it was back in the day, I suspect).


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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Post by rhendon »

Hazardville wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 12:46 pm
arebelspy wrote:
Madmanwithabox wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 11:55 am
BHBM does give LS the tools to switch off the damage though - the off switch for Stardust was ‘wipe the scrubs out, all of them’.
I mean, we can talk about differences, sure. LS can also play Luke to shut it off.

The question was about an objective that let you do 2 direct damage on the front side.
HD also does 2 damage per turn cycle on its 0 side. LS can only turn that off by controlling a 2/0 (much easier now than it was back in the day, I suspect).


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I mean honor was a thing in the past too. It depends today but a lot of decks don't force it in anymore. Feels like LS does more direct damage than DS decks currently (which is wrong and weird). DS decks couldn't always start no escape and had to find it or control 3 BGs so honor would work for a few turns and save you a fair bit.

LS also has ICBW but that doesn't it off. It has TT and OOC/TT to do it as well.

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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Post by Therion »

rhendon wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 3:38 pm
Feels like LS does more direct damage than DS decks currently (which is wrong and weird).
On that note, why are the top retrieval platforms DS? CCT and Court will retrieve more cards in a turn than some LS decks will in an entire game.

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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Post by Saladas »

Therion wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 7:21 pm
rhendon wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 3:38 pm
Feels like LS does more direct damage than DS decks currently (which is wrong and weird).
On that note, why are the top retrieval platforms DS? CCT and Court will retrieve more cards in a turn than some LS decks will in an entire game.
do u really want design's mentality going forward to be "ls doesnt have enough retrieval"

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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Post by Jnapolit31 »

Therion wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 7:21 pm
rhendon wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 3:38 pm
Feels like LS does more direct damage than DS decks currently (which is wrong and weird).
On that note, why are the top retrieval platforms DS? CCT and Court will retrieve more cards in a turn than some LS decks will in an entire game.
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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Post by Hazardville »

Saladas wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 7:30 pm
Therion wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 7:21 pm
rhendon wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 3:38 pm
Feels like LS does more direct damage than DS decks currently (which is wrong and weird).
On that note, why are the top retrieval platforms DS? CCT and Court will retrieve more cards in a turn than some LS decks will in an entire game.
do u really want design's mentality going forward to be "ls doesnt have enough retrieval"
I mean, if the logical continuation of this is not "LS doesn't have enough retrieval" and is instead "DS has too much retrieval" and that leads down the path of killing the card Scum and Villainy and Imperial Enforcement, I'm down for that.
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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Post by Jedicon »

Hazardville wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 9:50 pm

I mean, if the logical continuation of this is not "LS doesn't have enough retrieval" and is instead "DS has too much retrieval" and that leads down the path of killing the card Scum and Villainy and Imperial Enforcement, I'm down for that.
:(

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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Post by Madmanwithabox »

I do like the idea of Scum being shielded to work like the Yops retrieval (place an equal number of cards out of play) - so they don’t have a bottomless lost pile to keep getting stuff back out of.
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Re: 9/24 CBT Update Discussion

Post by rhendon »

Hazardville wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 9:50 pm
Saladas wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 7:30 pm
Therion wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 7:21 pm
rhendon wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 3:38 pm
Feels like LS does more direct damage than DS decks currently (which is wrong and weird).
On that note, why are the top retrieval platforms DS? CCT and Court will retrieve more cards in a turn than some LS decks will in an entire game.
do u really want design's mentality going forward to be "ls doesnt have enough retrieval"
I mean, if the logical continuation of this is not "LS doesn't have enough retrieval" and is instead "DS has too much retrieval" and that leads down the path of killing the card Scum and Villainy and Imperial Enforcement, I'm down for that.
I don't think we need to go down that road. We can say though that DS has more retrieval now than before, post reset. It might have had more pre-reset at some point.

DS should be about direct damage. LS should be retrieval. This was part of the beauty of the game design by Decipher. DS is about causing force damage and LS is about healing it. Swapping that is causing an imbalance to the force, if you will.

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